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Thread: Trump meeting rocket man

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  1. #76
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Conflating the events of over half a century ago with the present day is exactly what you're doing. Try reading over the last few posts Lyle. They happened a few days ago now so they've already fallen off your shelf. The only actual coherent point you make is that North Carolina now has enough Democratic voters to vote Democratic. That's mainly due to the concentration of the financial industry there over recent years. It means lots of educated people from the shoe-wearing regions of the country have moved there and they overwhelmingly vote Democratic.

    As far as changes in voting patterns in the south go here's a nice little summary for you. There are endless much longer in depth articles but there's zero chance you'll ever read one:


    But a couple of researchers recently found some: Gallup poll data starting in the late 50s that asks if you’d be willing to vote for a qualified presidential candidate who happened to be black. Respondents who answered no were coded (quite reasonably) as racially conservative. They then looked at differences between the Democratic Party ID of Southern whites who were and weren’t racially conservative. Here’s their conclusion:
    We find that except for issues involving racial integration and discrimination, whites in the South and elsewhere have indistinguishable preferences on both domestic and foreign policy in the 1950s….We find no evidence that white Southerners who have negative views of women, Catholics or Jews differentially leave the Democratic party in 1963; the exodus is specific to those who are racially conservative. Finally, we find no role for Southern economic development in explaining dealignment.
    The charts on the right show one specific data point: JFK’s televised civil rights speech of June 11, 1963. Among Southern whites, approval of JFK plummets right at that moment (top chart). And in the Gallup polls, racially conservative Southern whites leave the party in droves (bottom chart). This is not a steady decline. It’s a sharp, sudden exodus at a specific moment in time.
    So: why did Democrats lose the white South? For the reason common sense and all the evidence suggests: because the party became too liberal on civil rights, and racist white Southerners didn’t like it. Southern white flight from the party began in the 1940s, took a sharp dive in the early 60s, and continued to decline for several decades after as Democrats became ever more committed to black equality. This might not be the only reason for Southern realignment, but it’s surely the most important by a long stretch.


    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...e-white-south/


    And don't complain about the source. It's a factual piece referencing poll data, facts and evidence. Once the Democratic party came out for equal rights for black people white southerners started leaving it in droves. That's it in a nutshell Lyle.
    OK keep being belligerent I guess

    "Little shelf, my 10 year old niece, shoe-wearing regions of the country" just nothing but hostility from you ALL THE TIME....not complaining, just pointing it out in case anyone else missed it though I'd find it hard to believe they would.

    All I've done is DARE to ask you to follow up on the claims you make about the South being racist which YES absolute you have said that and you're continuing to say it right now.

    "The north/south vote breakdown is about as clear as you can get, isn't it. I rest my case."
    That's Republican AND Democrat votes and that's YOUR quote saying the whole South, both parties, were racist.


    These people you talk about haven't moved anywhere and only 1 Democrat turned Republican which apparently proves you right about the "Southern strategy" and that dude was in SOUTH Carolina. To expound on that a bit, you never did get back to what Strom Thurmond did in the wake of Willie Earle being lynched, but that's cool it's another story for another day when you apparently feel like answering questions instead of being a hostile jackass.

    OK so banking brings in "shoe wearing people" (because that's not insulting to myself or my state) and MAGICALLY Democrats become LESS racist than Republicans who now OWN racism in the South and everywhere else according to you.


    Neither you or the author of the 'Mother Jones' article (shocking you'd use them again) define what constitutes "racially conservative". Define the term, how does one become "racially conservative" how do you define it? If you'd kindly define your term then maybe your fucking graphs would mean something.


    I really would enjoy hearing this kind of thing from you live in person, it would amuse me a great deal.

  2. #77
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    @Kirkland Laing why are you so fixated on the US when your country does the same shit. Is it just for arguments sake. How do u feel about the erosion of personal liberty in the UK

  3. #78
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Make Kirkland a US citizen. Let him run for President as the first Geordie President. Pushing forward new language forms one President at a time. 'All yous Southerners is racists, you know'.

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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    What does any of this have to do with Rocket Men anyway? I come on here wanting my Rocket Man fix and you are all waffling about 'Racism'.

  5. #80
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    Make Kirkland a US citizen. Let him run for President as the first Geordie President. Pushing forward new language forms one President at a time. 'All yous Southerners is racists, you know'.
    He's a Geordie?! Bwahaha!

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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    What does any of this have to do with Rocket Men anyway? I come on here wanting my Rocket Man fix and you are all waffling about 'Racism'.
    Miles I started it about rocket man but the guy from Newcastle with the funny accent took it over

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Conflating the events of over half a century ago with the present day is exactly what you're doing. Try reading over the last few posts Lyle. They happened a few days ago now so they've already fallen off your shelf. The only actual coherent point you make is that North Carolina now has enough Democratic voters to vote Democratic. That's mainly due to the concentration of the financial industry there over recent years. It means lots of educated people from the shoe-wearing regions of the country have moved there and they overwhelmingly vote Democratic.

    As far as changes in voting patterns in the south go here's a nice little summary for you. There are endless much longer in depth articles but there's zero chance you'll ever read one:


    But a couple of researchers recently found some: Gallup poll data starting in the late 50s that asks if you’d be willing to vote for a qualified presidential candidate who happened to be black. Respondents who answered no were coded (quite reasonably) as racially conservative. They then looked at differences between the Democratic Party ID of Southern whites who were and weren’t racially conservative. Here’s their conclusion:
    We find that except for issues involving racial integration and discrimination, whites in the South and elsewhere have indistinguishable preferences on both domestic and foreign policy in the 1950s….We find no evidence that white Southerners who have negative views of women, Catholics or Jews differentially leave the Democratic party in 1963; the exodus is specific to those who are racially conservative. Finally, we find no role for Southern economic development in explaining dealignment.
    The charts on the right show one specific data point: JFK’s televised civil rights speech of June 11, 1963. Among Southern whites, approval of JFK plummets right at that moment (top chart). And in the Gallup polls, racially conservative Southern whites leave the party in droves (bottom chart). This is not a steady decline. It’s a sharp, sudden exodus at a specific moment in time.
    So: why did Democrats lose the white South? For the reason common sense and all the evidence suggests: because the party became too liberal on civil rights, and racist white Southerners didn’t like it. Southern white flight from the party began in the 1940s, took a sharp dive in the early 60s, and continued to decline for several decades after as Democrats became ever more committed to black equality. This might not be the only reason for Southern realignment, but it’s surely the most important by a long stretch.


    https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dr...e-white-south/


    And don't complain about the source. It's a factual piece referencing poll data, facts and evidence. Once the Democratic party came out for equal rights for black people white southerners started leaving it in droves. That's it in a nutshell Lyle.
    OK keep being belligerent I guess

    "Little shelf, my 10 year old niece, shoe-wearing regions of the country" just nothing but hostility from you ALL THE TIME....not complaining, just pointing it out in case anyone else missed it though I'd find it hard to believe they would.

    All I've done is DARE to ask you to follow up on the claims you make about the South being racist which YES absolute you have said that and you're continuing to say it right now.

    "The north/south vote breakdown is about as clear as you can get, isn't it. I rest my case."
    That's Republican AND Democrat votes and that's YOUR quote saying the whole South, both parties, were racist.


    These people you talk about haven't moved anywhere and only 1 Democrat turned Republican which apparently proves you right about the "Southern strategy" and that dude was in SOUTH Carolina. To expound on that a bit, you never did get back to what Strom Thurmond did in the wake of Willie Earle being lynched, but that's cool it's another story for another day when you apparently feel like answering questions instead of being a hostile jackass.

    OK so banking brings in "shoe wearing people" (because that's not insulting to myself or my state) and MAGICALLY Democrats become LESS racist than Republicans who now OWN racism in the South and everywhere else according to you.


    Neither you or the author of the 'Mother Jones' article (shocking you'd use them again) define what constitutes "racially conservative". Define the term, how does one become "racially conservative" how do you define it? If you'd kindly define your term then maybe your fucking graphs would mean something.


    I really would enjoy hearing this kind of thing from you live in person, it would amuse me a great deal.
    Racially conservative is defined in the article as people who don't want a black man to be president. Look Lyle, the whole Southern Strategy thing is well documented history and it's documented by the people who created and implemented it. It's a matter of fact that the GOP have appealed to white racial sentiment for decades.

  8. #83
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    @Kirkland Laing why are you so fixated on the US when your country does the same shit. Is it just for arguments sake. How do u feel about the erosion of personal liberty in the UK
    Answer my questions first and then I'll answer yours.

  9. #84
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    What does any of this have to do with Rocket Men anyway? I come on here wanting my Rocket Man fix and you are all waffling about 'Racism'.
    Here's where it started.

    http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...52#post1466352

  10. #85
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Racially conservative is defined in the article as people who don't want a black man to be president. Look Lyle, the whole Southern Strategy thing is well documented history and it's documented by the people who created and implemented it. It's a matter of fact that the GOP have appealed to white racial sentiment for decades.
    And North Carolina voted for Barack Obama for President in 2008 so again I question the validity of your argument.

    Well documented by who a couple scrubs who worked with Nixon? Strom Thurmond switching parties? The 1994 Republican Congress (in case you missed it 1968 is not that close to 1994, some may even say they're 26 years apart)?

    "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." - Lyndon B. Johnson....DEMOCRAT

    If "white racial sentiment" is personal responsibility, understanding we're a nation of laws, and we want to keep illegal immigrants depressing the wages of blue collar workers then I guess you've got a point otherwise I guess we just disagree.

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    @Kirkland Laing why are you so fixated on the US when your country does the same shit. Is it just for arguments sake. How do u feel about the erosion of personal liberty in the UK
    Answer my questions first and then I'll answer yours.
    Ha good foot work

  12. #87
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Racially conservative is defined in the article as people who don't want a black man to be president. Look Lyle, the whole Southern Strategy thing is well documented history and it's documented by the people who created and implemented it. It's a matter of fact that the GOP have appealed to white racial sentiment for decades.
    And North Carolina voted for Barack Obama for President in 2008 so again I question the validity of your argument.

    Well documented by who a couple scrubs who worked with Nixon? Strom Thurmond switching parties? The 1994 Republican Congress (in case you missed it 1968 is not that close to 1994, some may even say they're 26 years apart)?

    "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." - Lyndon B. Johnson....DEMOCRAT

    If "white racial sentiment" is personal responsibility, understanding we're a nation of laws, and we want to keep illegal immigrants depressing the wages of blue collar workers then I guess you've got a point otherwise I guess we just disagree.
    The demographics of North Carolina have changed dramatically in the half century period between the civil rights act being passed and Obama being elected. They're not all like you anymore. What part of this don't you understand?

    It's not a "couple of scrubs". It's the people who ran most of the GOP presidential campaigns in the sixties, seventies and eighties on record and in two cases writing books about how they pandered to white racism to win elections in the south.

    And the LBJ quote:


    That’s the context of one of the most famous statements on race ever attributed to President Johnson, an off-the-cuff observation he made to a young staffer, Bill Moyers, after encountering a display of blatant racism during a political visit to the South. Moyers tells it in the first person:
    We were in Tennessee. During the motorcade, he spotted some ugly racial epithets scrawled on signs. Late that night in the hotel, when the local dignitaries had finished the last bottles of bourbon and branch water and departed, he started talking about those signs. “I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it,” he said. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    In the blunt vernacular that he loved to use, LBJ was describing what the television pundits of today would probably call the politics of resentment and divisiveness. It is still very much with us.




    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lb...est-white-man/


    The American dream is often thought of as providing mobility for all. It hasn’t worked that way for blacks and poor whites. How do we explain that the false dream lives on anyway? What makes poor whites accept their destitute state even to this day? President Lyndon Johnson said it best: "If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you."

    https://www.humanityinaction.org/kno...wis-fellowship

  13. #88
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    The demographics of North Carolina have changed dramatically in the half century period between the civil rights act being passed and Obama being elected. They're not all like you anymore. What part of this don't you understand?

    It's not a "couple of scrubs". It's the people who ran most of the GOP presidential campaigns in the sixties, seventies and eighties on record and in two cases writing books about how they pandered to white racism to win elections in the south.

    And the LBJ quote:


    That’s the context of one of the most famous statements on race ever attributed to President Johnson, an off-the-cuff observation he made to a young staffer, Bill Moyers, after encountering a display of blatant racism during a political visit to the South. Moyers tells it in the first person:
    We were in Tennessee. During the motorcade, he spotted some ugly racial epithets scrawled on signs. Late that night in the hotel, when the local dignitaries had finished the last bottles of bourbon and branch water and departed, he started talking about those signs. “I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it,” he said. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    In the blunt vernacular that he loved to use, LBJ was describing what the television pundits of today would probably call the politics of resentment and divisiveness. It is still very much with us.




    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lb...est-white-man/


    The American dream is often thought of as providing mobility for all. It hasn’t worked that way for blacks and poor whites. How do we explain that the false dream lives on anyway? What makes poor whites accept their destitute state even to this day? President Lyndon Johnson said it best: "If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you."

    https://www.humanityinaction.org/kno...wis-fellowship
    Would you clear up your mind and figure out how to say what you're trying to say because what you HAVE said is a fucking mess. "Did you know demographics have changed? Huh did ya, huh did ya know that?" YES MOTHER FUCKER and you're trying to say that right now in THE CURRENT YEAR 2018 that Southern Republicans are racist....or excuse me, there are Southerners who are "racially conservative" .....sorry if that doesn't win me over but I see quite a bit of racism on the Democrat side and if they had control of the NC Legislature they'd damn sure gerrymander only you wouldn't have the sack to call it that, very few people would.

    So the Republicans put 100% of their 1968 hopes in the "Well in the long term this will work out for us" Southern strategy and they accomplished their dreams in 1994 and since then we've got great Republicans like Tim Scott and Allen West winning elections in Southern states....yyyyyyeah makes sense.....or would you like to call those good gentlemen some names as is the wont of a good "non-racist" Democrat

    If you do not believe that LBJ was a horrible and racist President then fine I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.

  14. #89
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    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    The demographics of North Carolina have changed dramatically in the half century period between the civil rights act being passed and Obama being elected. They're not all like you anymore. What part of this don't you understand?

    It's not a "couple of scrubs". It's the people who ran most of the GOP presidential campaigns in the sixties, seventies and eighties on record and in two cases writing books about how they pandered to white racism to win elections in the south.

    And the LBJ quote:


    That’s the context of one of the most famous statements on race ever attributed to President Johnson, an off-the-cuff observation he made to a young staffer, Bill Moyers, after encountering a display of blatant racism during a political visit to the South. Moyers tells it in the first person:
    We were in Tennessee. During the motorcade, he spotted some ugly racial epithets scrawled on signs. Late that night in the hotel, when the local dignitaries had finished the last bottles of bourbon and branch water and departed, he started talking about those signs. “I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it,” he said. “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
    In the blunt vernacular that he loved to use, LBJ was describing what the television pundits of today would probably call the politics of resentment and divisiveness. It is still very much with us.




    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lb...est-white-man/


    The American dream is often thought of as providing mobility for all. It hasn’t worked that way for blacks and poor whites. How do we explain that the false dream lives on anyway? What makes poor whites accept their destitute state even to this day? President Lyndon Johnson said it best: "If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him someone to look down on and he’ll empty his pockets for you."

    https://www.humanityinaction.org/kno...wis-fellowship
    Would you clear up your mind and figure out how to say what you're trying to say because what you HAVE said is a fucking mess. "Did you know demographics have changed? Huh did ya, huh did ya know that?" YES MOTHER FUCKER and you're trying to say that right now in THE CURRENT YEAR 2018 that Southern Republicans are racist....or excuse me, there are Southerners who are "racially conservative" .....sorry if that doesn't win me over but I see quite a bit of racism on the Democrat side and if they had control of the NC Legislature they'd damn sure gerrymander only you wouldn't have the sack to call it that, very few people would.

    So the Republicans put 100% of their 1968 hopes in the "Well in the long term this will work out for us" Southern strategy and they accomplished their dreams in 1994 and since then we've got great Republicans like Tim Scott and Allen West winning elections in Southern states....yyyyyyeah makes sense.....or would you like to call those good gentlemen some names as is the wont of a good "non-racist" Democrat

    If you do not believe that LBJ was a horrible and racist President then fine I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.
    I don't know how to explain it any simpler than I already did.

  15. #90
    El Kabong Guest

    Default Re: Trump meeting rocket man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    I don't know how to explain it any simpler than I already did.
    And the crux of it is "Southern Democrats were racially conservative as were some Southern Republicans and therefore when the 1968 Civil Rights Act came up and was passed Southern Democrats (actually only 1 Strom Thurmond) turned into Republicans. Republicans in the South are racist and gerrymander voting districts unlike say Democrats who would never attempt to draw districts to benefit themselves. Also just to save face the demographics of the South changed but Southern Republicans are still racist"


    That's what I get from you and that sir is WRONG, but hey who am I to judge I only live here, I've only studied history of my state and country, but whatever I'm sure you know best

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