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Thread: Should transgenered people be allowed to box?

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    Default Should transgenered people be allowed to box?

    Patricio Manuel, a super featherweight fighting out of Los Angeles won a unanimous decision in December at Fantasy Springs Resort Casino in what was billed as the first pro bout in the U.S. involving a transgender man.

    “If you want loyalty, buy a dog.” Ricky Hatton





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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    so that’s someone born a woman who turned and fought as a man? I guess if that’s what they want to do, fine, just match them light. If it’s the other way around, hell no, would be my stance. As with everything involving the issue though, it’s more of a talking point and source of faux outrage than it is anything which will ever have much to do with anything. A tomato can who has been knocked out 18 times in the last three years shouldn’t be allowed to fight a standout prospect, but that’s just boxing.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    So the question is should one person be allowed to do the same things as another person. ....Yes

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    More great work from the university of Ron Swanson.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    "Women of boxing discuss competing with transgender females"


    http://proboxinginsider.com/women-of...ender-females/



    Here's the opinion of some of those who actually have to step into the ring with transgender females. Some bravely go with the flow and don't seem to mind... but others emphatically say "no".

    I agree with the latter.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.
    Women in Athletics are currently saying the same thing.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.
    In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

    I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Let the WBA have a world silver interim WBA Trannies and Shemale Title.
    Remember reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol .

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.
    In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

    I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
    This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.

    Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.

    So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.
    In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

    I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap
    This is much different than just being racist or sexist. This is about asking about an unfair advantage. For example, if a black man beats a white man in a race, nobody would call it cheating. If a man pretends to be a woman and races against a woman and wins, people would call it cheating because men are naturally more athletic in every way. That’s biology not sexist.

    Now I know that there are many different situations when it comes to sex and gender. So I can understand an argument if hormone levels are essentially female but maybe you just have male parts. It’s a serious situation though when you have a woman who trains all of her life to win the Olympics and ends up losing to a “woman” that was born much more of a man than a woman. Also in combat sports, it becomes more dangerous. That’s why men and women don’t fight each other. It’s way too dangerous.

    So don’t be one of those people who just call people sexist and don’t actually have a good argument for your name calling.


    Ignorance rears its ugly head with the usual suspects chiming in. No hey..... let's allow objections to men beating up on women to be called "sexist." It remains the easy "go to" answer to everything. As usual, it's easier to applaud the blurred lines of society than to make a stand, no matter how unpopular. I made a clear distinction saying if a trans woman who becomes a man wants to fight men.... let her be. The other way around, IMO, and in the opinion of most people with a good set of values "assigned at birth", is wrong.

    If we want to play the all high and mighty with this, why not just drop all pretenses and just let women and men fight each other in the ring. Heaven knows we need more examples of men beating up on women in society. No @powerpuncher ..... let's let the Ron's and the Beanzs and the Fensters of the world continue carrying their torch. As I've said time and again, it's much easier to adopt the "everything's ok" attitude and criticize others for taking a stance. Blurred lines? No problem. Who cares that we've already had instances of women getting severely injured in a ring or octagon by a trans male/female. Never mind the opinion of the very fighters themselves, whose opinions I already posted in a link above. No..... all that matters is that we're cool with everything.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Hmm. I'm staying out of this one.

    “If you want loyalty, buy a dog.” Ricky Hatton





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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Ronica Jeffrey: Undefeated at 11-0, Ronica is set to compete for the interim WIBA super featherweight title in April.

    “Honestly, I don’t think that they should compete against women, because at the end of the day, naturally you are a man, and its unfair for the woman to have to go against someone who is that physically stronger than them. If that’s the case, then we should have co-ed boxing, which we don’t, and that is for a reason. I have nothing against them, and if it’s that serious, then transgendered should go against transgendered."


    Mary McGee: Mary is 20-1 and next steps in the ring in May where she will meet up with Holly Holm in a battle for the IBA light welterweight title. Follow Mary on Twitter @marymcgee2586.

    “It’s not fair to put a man up against a women in any sport. Transgender or not, naturally men are stronger than women. In some cases a woman can beat the odds, but I don’t think that would be fair. I would never in my life step in the ring with a man. He, in a real fight, might hurt me real bad. If they want to do the sport, do it with men.”


    Kaliesha West: At 16-1, the popular West is the IFBA super bantamweight title holder, as well as the WBO bantamweight champ. She can be followed on Twitter @KWildWildWest

    “I do not support this! I study in the medical field and have been working at a prestigious medical center for 6 years now (Loma Linda University), and its simple anatomy and physiology. Men are NATURALLY stronger than women!!!! THIS IS WRONG IN SO MANY WAYS! Men have larger hearts and lungs, and their higher levels of testosterone cause them to produce greater amounts of red blood cells. I’ve studied this already, and these statements written EVERYWHERE in anatomy articles, books, or studies only reiterate what I just stated.

    Men usually have greater upper body strength, build muscle easily, have thicker skin, bruise less easily and have a lower threshold of awareness of injuries to their extremities. Men are essentially built for physical confrontation and the use of force. Their joints are well suited for throwing objects. A man’s skull is almost always thicker and stronger than a women’s.

    If this Shim wants to compete, TELL HER TO JOIN THE MEN’s LEAGUE!!!! OH, and I don’t want to hear about her hormonal pills she has been taking for her gender change, ESTROGEN CAN NOT CHANGE THE SIZE OF YOUR NATURAL SKELETON.”



    Holly Lawson: Holly is the 4th ranked welterweight in the world. She currently has a record of 5-2. You can follow her on Twitter @lilbearlawson.

    “I feel that if they want to allow transgendered women to compete with women, they might as well start sanctioning men and women to fight in their respective weight classes. I think regardless of the procedures which one undergoes in such a situation, genetically they are still male. With that said, I wouldn’t turn down a fight if my opponent was discovered to be transgendered. Boxing isn’t about brute strength, it’s a science and a chess match.”



    Amanda Serrano: The WIBA featherweight champion sports an impressive 17-1 record. She returns to action in April against an opponent to be named. Follow her on Twitter @RealDealSerrano.

    “I truly believe that if u were born a man, you’re always going to be stronger than a woman. My choice would be no. Just because the testosterone that men have is a big factor. Just saying.”



    Maricela Cornejo: Maricela is quickly making a name for herself in the sport. The model/fighter has started her career with a 2-0 record, and next looks to be fighting on May 3 in Las Vegas.

    “I am all for doing whatever makes you feel good. If you want to become a girl, then that is your decision. I don’t have a problem with it. But I don’t agree with it when it comes to fighting. If a transgender woman fights, they are going to be stronger than other women, so I don’t think it’s right. There are still advantages they are going to have from having previously been a man that no amount of drugs are going to erase.”




    I should only have to post ONE of these. One would be more than sufficient. But here's a whole group of them. It's THEIR sport.

    Last I checked, no one in the "Live and Let Live" sorority here was either female, a boxer, or ever had to fight a transgender male.

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.
    In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

    I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

    When is gender indistinguishable at birth? I’ve never heard of such a thing, let alone one in sixty?

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    Default Re: Should transgenered people be allowed to boc?

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    In short, a woman changes into a man and wants to fight men? It's her choice.

    A man changes into a woman and wants to fight women? He's being forced onto opponents who want no part of it.

    'Nough said.
    In short you are sexist as hell. What about a person born where their gender is indistinguishable? That’s 1/60, what do you wish as the superior male to impose on them? Black, white, male, female, when we all stop imposing ourselves on those we view as different from us this world will be far better off.

    I remember 10/12 years ago a huge debate on a different boxing site about if gay people should be allowed to adopt. Of course I was on the side that thinks children are better off growing up with love. But I was practically alone. The same debate now seems absurd now that the data is in. Transgender doesn’t mean deciding you are the other sex. There is years of living as the other sex, years of hormone replacement, and eventually surgery. They are women by every hormonal standard and hormones decide everything about us. Come back to this argument in 20 years and it will seem as stupid as the “should gays be able to adopt” argument. Let people be. Through all human history we judge one group then another and impose upon them. The Chinese, the Irish, the blacks, the gays(yes, I am deliberately using these terms) and afterward we are always “we shouldn’t have done that. Every, single, time. Stop falling into the same trap

    When is gender indistinguishable at birth? I’ve never heard of such a thing, let alone one in sixty?


    It's from the URS curriculum. (Univ. of Ron Swanson)

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