"Sugar" Shane Mosley retires!

[Fenster]

You can claim "factual evidence" all you want, Fenst. Fact is, you're once again displaying your glaring ignorance about boxing. Tito got knocked down several times during his career, not because of a "china-chin", as you claim... but due to poor balance in many of his early fights. How else to explain how he would immediately get up and kick the shit out of the other fighter?

Please don't just take my word for it, since I know you don't believe anything I say. Just look at Hulk's post below, as he also tries to explain it to you.

Kirkland Laing would have beaten Tito with a spliff in one glove and a can of Special Brew in the other. Fact. Ask Roberto Duran.

Look... I'm just offerring statistical data that Tito has a very slim chance of beating Shane. My argument is based on factual evidence pertaining to Tito's china-chin. It's undeniable that he got knocked over numerous times by fighters far below Shane Mosley's caliber.

The indisputable facts indicate that a man with a chin as weak as Tito's would not survive in the highest level on a consistent basis. This is what the figures are displaying. Fact.

Mosley-Tito is pretty easy to call.

Tito's china-chin never survives a prime Mosley onslaught. Tito hit the deck about a hundred times. Kevin Lueshing, who was "lucky" to win a British title, dumped him on his arse and turned him into bambi on ice.

Mosley shatters Tito all day long. Fact.

Yori Boy and Mayorga dropped Tito too, but he got up to beat their asses. Its not how many times you get knocked down its how many times you get back up and Tito got up every time except against Bernard Hopkins at 160.

If a fighter is "consistently" getting knocked down against "weak" opposition then it's perfectly rational to conclude that against stronger opposition the fighter being downed is less likely to survive.

This is pure 100% mathematical data verified by an extensive observation of nature at work. Fact.

The science indicates that Shane knocks Tito out. Don't shoot the messenger. Fact.

[Kirkland Laing]

I've only ever seen one Trinidad fight and that makes me an expert on him to the extent I feel like I can bang on for fifteen pages about how shit he was. I watched a shot Roy Jones batter the fuck out of him so I don't have to watch another minute of Trinidad's career, he was obviously a great big pile of shite. I'll leave it to The Fenster to deal with the actual substantive arguments, I'm just going to keep pointing out how shit Trinidad was ad infinitum.

[JazzWolf]

Shane Mosley was the embodiment of courage in the ring. Every time I hear the word, I think Jesus and Sugar Shane Mosley. He never backed down and stood his ground against the overwhelming opposition of time, whether he was winning or losing.

The heart of a lion and the killer instinct of a panther, I salute thee.

[Master]

I am sure Fenster is winding you up Tito.

Shane was a great lightweight but never at welterweight. Mosley was good but Tito destroyed all at welterweight and light middle, where Shane was even less effective. Tito may have been put down but he had devastating power, whilst I believe Shane would have seen the score cards he would have lost the fight against Tito. Shane would try and box and move like Oscar did but would not be big and tall enough to execute the game plan that Bernard did at middleweight.

[Mr140]

I think Shane would of knocked him out i mean only seen shane hurt bad once and that was after a head butt and he still went on. I mean Shane did hell of a lot better against Oscar and Wright. I mean Tito depend a lot on his power and Shane about the hardest fucker to knock out and he hits like a truck. The only time Shane lost was mayeb he was out boxed but Tito could not do that in a million years. Tito was a good fighter but his best win was a gift and when he moved up to fight guys his own size he lost pretty clearly.

[Master]

I think Shane would of knocked him out i mean only seen shane hurt bad once and that was after a head butt and he still went on. I mean Shane did hell of a lot better against Oscar and Wright. I mean Tito depend a lot on his power and Shane about the hardest fucker to knock out and he hits like a truck. The only time Shane lost was mayeb he was out boxed but Tito could not do that in a million years. Tito was a good fighter but his best win was a gift and when he moved up to fight guys his own size he lost pretty clearly.

If anyone could hurt Shane, it was Tito, his power was unreal.

[Althugz]

I am sure Fenster is winding you up Tito.

This - come on..stop biting, Tito. Fenster's about as funny and transparent as a box jellyfish. I would say ignore him and he might go away but..we all know he lives here..

For the record, I think that would have been a good fight. Both guys could punch and both guys can be outboxed. It would be an all action affair. In my head, Shane edges it by getting off before Tito during their exchanges over and over.

[TitoFan]

I am sure Fenster is winding you up Tito.

This - come on..stop biting, Tito. Fenster's about as funny and transparent as a box jellyfish. I would say ignore him and he might go away but..we all know he lives here..

For the record, I think that would have been a good fight. Both guys could punch and both guys can be outboxed. It would be an all action affair. In my head, Shane edges it by getting off before Tito during their exchanges over and over.

Are you kidding? I'm starting to look forward to Fenster's outlandish bullshit. It amuses me. He comes off more and more ignorant each time, and I have a little fun in the process. Fenster likes to rattle the cages once in awhile... and then come back and see what insults have been hurled at him. I rather enjoy calling him out on his ignorance, especially given that somehow he's a moderator in this otherwise flawless forum.

For the record, I think Tito takes it over Shane... but it would be a beautiful fight to see.

You see.... the real explanations and arguments I save for the sane people on the forum. The insults and the general bullshit I save for characters such as Fenster and his sidekick Kirkland Laing.

[TitoFan]

I've only ever seen one Trinidad fight and that makes me an expert on him to the extent I feel like I can bang on for fifteen pages about how shit he was. I watched a shot Roy Jones batter the fuck out of him so I don't have to watch another minute of Trinidad's career, he was obviously a great big pile of shite. I'll leave it to The Fenster to deal with the actual substantive arguments, I'm just going to keep pointing out how shit Trinidad was ad infinitum.

You have any thoughts of your own? Or do you get them from sucking on Fenster's dick?
No offense, of course.

[Fenster]

Yet again he fails to answer a single boxing related question posed by The Fenster and offers nothing but insults.

@TitoFan

Do you not agree that a fighter who has suffered numerous knock downs against B/C-grade opposition is potentially at greater risk against A-grade opposition? It's as simple as 2+2 = 4.

I am merely providing a standard mathematical structure that encompasses the laws of probability. Fact.

[TitoFan]

I answered. You don't want to listen.
When you're ready to have a serious debate without the bullshit, get back to me.
End of story.

[Fenster]

What am I not being serious about?

Tito got knocked down on numerous occasions. The higher calibre opponent you face the more likely you are to be knocked down, especially if that higher calibre opponent has serious power, therefore Shane KO's Tito on this basic but structually granite formula.

Tito was knocked down by far inferior fighters to Shane. Right?

I can't conclusively prove that Shane would KO Tito but the mathematics indicate it's a virtual certainty. Fact.

I'm just providing the results of the research.

[TitoFan]

You chose to ignore the FACTS about the Trinidad knockdowns EARLY in his career. The facts I put in front of your face. I will not answer the same questions twice. You keep asking the same question after you've been given an answer.... you do not deserve any more of my time. Now go play in the middle of the street.

[Fenster]

Tito was stopped by Hopkins in his 41st fight and knocked down by Roy in his 45th.

Early, middle and late - in his career - Tito hit the deck. It's just an undeniable fact.

By that rationale I believe Mosely, who would have been one of the superior opponents Tito faced, had a strong mathematical chance of rendering him unconcious.

The Fenster never ignores facts. Fact.

[TitoFan]

Now you're starting to subtly change your tune, and looking ignorant in the process. The Hopkins and Jones Jr. knockdowns were very different from the knockdowns Trinidad suffered early in his career. The early ones were caused by lack of proper balance by Trinidad. The fact that he immediately bounced up (unhurt) and KO'ed the opponent (in each case) is proof of that. Only an idiot will continue to ignore that fact. Surely you're not an idiot, correct? The Hopkins and Jones Jr. knockdowns occurred late in each fight. Trinidad was clearly losing the fight and had been dominated in each case. Hence, the late knockdowns.

You started the argument by ignorantly saying Trinidad had a "china-chin". You've subtly eased off that, but still pursue the argument that since Trinidad suffered various knockdowns, Mosley would KO him. Faulty reasoning, for the reasons I've given above.

To this point, I've humored you and good-naturedly taken the bait you've hung out there, in the spirit of maintaining a good argument back and forth. But I will not answer your questions twice. I've already done that in this post, by once again explaining to you the nature of Trinidad's early knockdowns. Now... as the moderator you are... I expect you to be more of an example to our young, impressionable posters. But if you persist in your asinine arguments, in which you've proceeded to look like quite the fool, you're going to leave me no choice but to ignore your ass altogether.

You see... I only engage in intelligent arguments.