Signs of the Times

[TitoFan]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

[Master]

I have noticed that our cousins from across the pond really hate big Government and believe that is one of the reasons why the query the impact of the pandemic.

That is not the sign of the times and that feeling has always been there.

[TIC]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

titofan do you know who created the phrase conspiracy theorist? the internet only came out in 1991, so not even thirty years ago. i think it's safe to say that not everyone has had the access to information available today for twenty years, i think that is being generous. before that unless you really wanted to study something it was at your library. most people received their information from the media. with things like project mockingbird that information was corrupted. in the beginning the internet was slow & expensive & most people were only starting to find its uses, sites like napster & porn probably took most of their attention. anyway today information is much more readily available, even with censorship & mis-information, people are becoming aware of the lies that have been told. i mentioned a few conspiracy theories to you awhile ago that turn out to be true, the governments have lied & lied, over & over, & have been responsible for the deaths of millions of lives, excluding wars. it's not a matter of not wanting to hear, maybe in case of those that don't want the truth, but a matter of truth & what can be proven to be true

[TitoFan]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

titofan do you know who created the phrase conspiracy theorist? the internet only came out in 1991, so not even thirty years ago. i think it's safe to say that not everyone has had the access to information available today for twenty years, i think that is being generous. before that unless you really wanted to study something it was at your library. most people received their information from the media. with things like project mockingbird that information was corrupted. in the beginning the internet was slow & expensive & most people were only starting to find its uses, sites like napster & porn probably took most of their attention. anyway today information is much more readily available, even with censorship & mis-information, people are becoming aware of the lies that have been told. i mentioned a few conspiracy theories to you awhile ago that turn out to be true, the governments have lied & lied, over & over, & have been responsible for the deaths of millions of lives, excluding wars. it's not a matter of not wanting to hear, maybe in case of those that don't want the truth, but a matter of truth & what can be proven to be true

All good points, TIC. Information availability to the public is eons greater today than it was some years ago. That is both good and bad. Bad because with it comes the inevitable flood of fake news..... from all sides. Fake news isn't just the realm of the wicked, evil government wanting to horse-collar everyone into submission. There is plenty of fake news from the other side as well. Serious, stable-minded people are caught in the crossfire between government shenanigans and propaganda, and those who are "drug-like" addicted to conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories, as recent or not-recent as the term may be, have existed in one form or another for many years. Nothing is ever just a simple piece of news. No assassination was ever "just" an assassination. There was always some convoluted story involving many parties and interests. Nothing is taken at face value. No sooner did man landed on the moon than the conspiracy theories started pouring out, calling it all an elaborate hoax. It's probably a part of human nature, to want to question everything.

Something I find oddly exaggerated is this mistrust and fear of governments in general. I guess if we all lived in a dictatorship or just a heavily-censored country, it would be natural to harbor this enormous mistrust and fear. But in a society where everyone can pretty much say what they want..... and certainly do? I just don't see it. Not saying governments are trustworthy at all. But the extreme mistrust and fear of the government shown by a small portion of society, especially in the U.S., is weird. It's like being stuck in a time warp from back when governments were still being formed and the nation was still new.

[walrus]

Well on my end I don’t see a lot of denial. I do see arguing about its severity and government overreach. A lot of action will come before the courts, a lot already has. Government recommendations vs government orders that allow for arrest or fines are two different things. We moved from suggestions to orders with things like masks that at first we were being told not to wear as it could make things worse. The Dems are still saying trump acted too slowly even though he was xenophobic when he did start taking action. It gets political on both sides regardless. So certainly a lot or argument about it. The government can’t even stop robocalls let alone a virus.

It certainly did teach us a lesson, and it’s not over yet. I didn’t even have thoughts of this shit on my back burner. I only know two people who were diagnosed with the wuhan virus and so far both are experiencing mild symptoms fortunately. No I can’t duplicate their tests.

The conspiracy shit is just lack of faith in the government and media. It’s how certain people process lack of trust or anger at the government. And the media, I think people are realizing how dangerous, wrong and manipulative they really are. That of course goes way back. Hearst called the Spanish American war “his war” he was protecting his rich friends interest in Cuba. So I guess all that is understandable to a degree. What an odd time it is. My state is now using drones to monitor social distancing. Mind you, they aren’t being used for identification wink wink. I did notice more cars on the road on my way home from work. I literally had the highway to myself for a few days.

[TIC]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

titofan do you know who created the phrase conspiracy theorist? the internet only came out in 1991, so not even thirty years ago. i think it's safe to say that not everyone has had the access to information available today for twenty years, i think that is being generous. before that unless you really wanted to study something it was at your library. most people received their information from the media. with things like project mockingbird that information was corrupted. in the beginning the internet was slow & expensive & most people were only starting to find its uses, sites like napster & porn probably took most of their attention. anyway today information is much more readily available, even with censorship & mis-information, people are becoming aware of the lies that have been told. i mentioned a few conspiracy theories to you awhile ago that turn out to be true, the governments have lied & lied, over & over, & have been responsible for the deaths of millions of lives, excluding wars. it's not a matter of not wanting to hear, maybe in case of those that don't want the truth, but a matter of truth & what can be proven to be true

All good points, TIC. Information availability to the public is eons greater today than it was some years ago. That is both good and bad. Bad because with it comes the inevitable flood of fake news..... from all sides. Fake news isn't just the realm of the wicked, evil government wanting to horse-collar everyone into submission. There is plenty of fake news from the other side as well. Serious, stable-minded people are caught in the crossfire between government shenanigans and propaganda, and those who are "drug-like" addicted to conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories, as recent or not-recent as the term may be, have existed in one form or another for many years. Nothing is ever just a simple piece of news. No assassination was ever "just" an assassination. There was always some convoluted story involving many parties and interests. Nothing is taken at face value. No sooner did man landed on the moon than the conspiracy theories started pouring out, calling it all an elaborate hoax. It's probably a part of human nature, to want to question everything.

Something I find oddly exaggerated is this mistrust and fear of governments in general. I guess if we all lived in a dictatorship or just a heavily-censored country, it would be natural to harbor this enormous mistrust and fear. But in a society where everyone can pretty much say what they want..... and certainly do? I just don't see it. Not saying governments are trustworthy at all. But the extreme mistrust and fear of the government shown by a small portion of society, especially in the U.S., is weird. It's like being stuck in a time warp from back when governments were still being formed and the nation was still new.

yeh as i said mis-information exists. there are people paid to spread it. have you seen those videos of walls of phones set up to social media accounts used to inflate opinions? we should question everything to find the truth. there is no free speech anymore, everything is highly censored or now considered hate speech. social media controls what is to be heard. the governments have brought it on themselves with lie after lie. continuing to trust an entity that has been proven over & over to have lied is weird. it reminds me of something i heard about stalin, he pulled all the feathers out of a live chicken then put it down, it was in pain & scared, he threw it some feed & even after what had just happened it followed him around. “People are like this chicken. It doesn’t matter how much pain you inflict on them. The moment you offer them what they need, they will still follow you and turn to you for their survival.”

[TitoFan]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

titofan do you know who created the phrase conspiracy theorist? the internet only came out in 1991, so not even thirty years ago. i think it's safe to say that not everyone has had the access to information available today for twenty years, i think that is being generous. before that unless you really wanted to study something it was at your library. most people received their information from the media. with things like project mockingbird that information was corrupted. in the beginning the internet was slow & expensive & most people were only starting to find its uses, sites like napster & porn probably took most of their attention. anyway today information is much more readily available, even with censorship & mis-information, people are becoming aware of the lies that have been told. i mentioned a few conspiracy theories to you awhile ago that turn out to be true, the governments have lied & lied, over & over, & have been responsible for the deaths of millions of lives, excluding wars. it's not a matter of not wanting to hear, maybe in case of those that don't want the truth, but a matter of truth & what can be proven to be true

All good points, TIC. Information availability to the public is eons greater today than it was some years ago. That is both good and bad. Bad because with it comes the inevitable flood of fake news..... from all sides. Fake news isn't just the realm of the wicked, evil government wanting to horse-collar everyone into submission. There is plenty of fake news from the other side as well. Serious, stable-minded people are caught in the crossfire between government shenanigans and propaganda, and those who are "drug-like" addicted to conspiracy theories. Conspiracy theories, as recent or not-recent as the term may be, have existed in one form or another for many years. Nothing is ever just a simple piece of news. No assassination was ever "just" an assassination. There was always some convoluted story involving many parties and interests. Nothing is taken at face value. No sooner did man landed on the moon than the conspiracy theories started pouring out, calling it all an elaborate hoax. It's probably a part of human nature, to want to question everything.

Something I find oddly exaggerated is this mistrust and fear of governments in general. I guess if we all lived in a dictatorship or just a heavily-censored country, it would be natural to harbor this enormous mistrust and fear. But in a society where everyone can pretty much say what they want..... and certainly do? I just don't see it. Not saying governments are trustworthy at all. But the extreme mistrust and fear of the government shown by a small portion of society, especially in the U.S., is weird. It's like being stuck in a time warp from back when governments were still being formed and the nation was still new.

yeh as i said mis-information exists. there are people paid to spread it. have you seen those videos of walls of phones set up to social media accounts used to inflate opinions? we should question everything to find the truth. there is no free speech anymore, everything is highly censored or now considered hate speech. social media controls what is to be heard. the governments have brought it on themselves with lie after lie. continuing to trust an entity that has been proven over & over to have lied is weird. it reminds me of something i heard about stalin, he pulled all the feathers out of a live chicken then put it down, it was in pain & scared, he threw it some feed & even after what had just happened it followed him around. “People are like this chicken. It doesn’t matter how much pain you inflict on them. The moment you offer them what they need, they will still follow you and turn to you for their survival.”

As long as you use the same misinformation standard to all sides, you can claim to have your feet on the ground. There are sheep on both sides of the fence.

[Spicoli]

Big Government is very bad. I'm not keen on drones reading citizens for any reason at 200 ft. Just wonder who will be the first arrested for shooting 1 out of the sky . Sadly we've become polarized bands who thrive of political divisions and consider all needed answers and solutions to fall therein. We judge, ridicule and close down on nothing more than catch phrases, dumb hats or banners and single policy stances. For many we go no further than the capital letter on a voter registration to disagree. Mass social media literally with every step now sees large swaths not seek out 'truths or facts' and cross reference points we may disagree with..but simply seek out like minds and narratives agreed with and bunker down like immovable objects. I'll never understand it. We're free thinkers in a beautiful land. Politicians are not teen idols or team sports, they all equally have not earned that freely given adoration. It is healthy to be skeptical but don't be sheep.

[Beanz]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

titofan do you know who created the phrase conspiracy theorist? the internet only came out in 1991, so not even thirty years ago. i think it's safe to say that not everyone has had the access to information available today for twenty years, i think that is being generous. before that unless you really wanted to study something it was at your library. most people received their information from the media. with things like project mockingbird that information was corrupted. in the beginning the internet was slow & expensive & most people were only starting to find its uses, sites like napster & porn probably took most of their attention. anyway today information is much more readily available, even with censorship & mis-information, people are becoming aware of the lies that have been told. i mentioned a few conspiracy theories to you awhile ago that turn out to be true, the governments have lied & lied, over & over, & have been responsible for the deaths of millions of lives, excluding wars. it's not a matter of not wanting to hear, maybe in case of those that don't want the truth, but a matter of truth & what can be proven to be true

I am pretty sure we have been over this before but the idea that the term conspiracy theory was invented by the CIA is a classic example of where a lack of critical thinking gets you. It is a brilliant example of those insisting that others are too naive and not skeptical enough, being more than willing to suspend their own disbelief and common sense, in order to remain loyal to a tribe/position that they believe is uniquely positioned to protect them. It is a pretty well studied and understood psychological and anthropological behaviour.


The 'Conspiracy Theory Term Origin' is explained beautifully here by an assistant professor of critical thinking from Stockton University -https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/nope-it-was-always-already-wrong/

[Spicoli]

Being honest now I just have the Cro Mags song stuck in my head. Thanks Tito

[TitoFan]

Being honest now I just have the Cro Mags song stuck in my head. Thanks Tito

LOL.... Must be gettin' old..... I had to look them up.

Which one, though? From their genre description (crossover thrash, hardcore punk), I'm pretty sure I haven't heard them before.

[palmerq]

.... Boomers

[TIC]

I searched high and low for a thread like this, thinking surely one existed and I didn't want to incur in needless duplicity. Alas, I found none.

In any case, I thought damn..... some things today are soooooo radically different in their very core from things from just a few decades ago.

Take a for instance.....

When all is said and done, COVID-19 will certainly be nowhere near the worst pandemic in human history. It will probably fall short of the worst of projections.

However, it is sure to go down in history as.... The Most Vehemently Argued and Denied Pandemic in the History of the Universe.

Why's that, I wonder.

My own theory is that people themselves are different.

Conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen. Throw a rock and you're bound to hit a conspiracy theorist.

People by and large are more rebellious and automatically balk at anything the government or any authority has to say...... including health professionals and authorities.

Also, people will always deny that which they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR. Psychology 101.

I get the economic argument and all that...... but some people are downright belligerent when talking about COVID-19. It's like a raw fucking nerve.



But anyway, I see this as a sign of the times.

There's more, hence the new thread.

titofan do you know who created the phrase conspiracy theorist? the internet only came out in 1991, so not even thirty years ago. i think it's safe to say that not everyone has had the access to information available today for twenty years, i think that is being generous. before that unless you really wanted to study something it was at your library. most people received their information from the media. with things like project mockingbird that information was corrupted. in the beginning the internet was slow & expensive & most people were only starting to find its uses, sites like napster & porn probably took most of their attention. anyway today information is much more readily available, even with censorship & mis-information, people are becoming aware of the lies that have been told. i mentioned a few conspiracy theories to you awhile ago that turn out to be true, the governments have lied & lied, over & over, & have been responsible for the deaths of millions of lives, excluding wars. it's not a matter of not wanting to hear, maybe in case of those that don't want the truth, but a matter of truth & what can be proven to be true

I am pretty sure we have been over this before but the idea that the term conspiracy theory was invented by the CIA is a classic example of where a lack of critical thinking gets you. It is a brilliant example of those insisting that others are too naive and not skeptical enough, being more than willing to suspend their own disbelief and common sense, in order to remain loyal to a tribe/position that they believe is uniquely positioned to protect them. It is a pretty well studied and understood psychological and anthropological behaviour.


The 'Conspiracy Theory Term Origin' is explained beautifully here by an assistant professor of critical thinking from Stockton University -https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/nope-it-was-always-already-wrong/

who mentioned the cia beanz?

[walrus]

Big Government is very bad. I'm not keen on drones reading citizens for any reason at 200 ft. Just wonder who will be the first arrested for shooting 1 out of the sky . Sadly we've become polarized bands who thrive of political divisions and consider all needed answers and solutions to fall therein. We judge, ridicule and close down on nothing more than catch phrases, dumb hats or banners and single policy stances. For many we go no further than the capital letter on a voter registration to disagree. Mass social media literally with every step now sees large swaths not seek out 'truths or facts' and cross reference points we may disagree with..but simply seek out like minds and narratives agreed with and bunker down like immovable objects. I'll never understand it. We're free thinkers in a beautiful land. Politicians are not teen idols or team sports, they all equally have not earned that freely given adoration. It is healthy to be skeptical but don't be sheep.

Term limits. We need term limits in Congress. Congress is not a forward looking body. They see only the best way to maintain their power and influence much of what involved creating massive programs and piling on the debt. If these idiots had 2 terms politics could be a lot different. A line item veto would be nice but I understand the Supreme Court saying it gives too much power to the executive. Still, it’s the only way to get rid of some of the pork in these bills

[TIC]

Big Government is very bad. I'm not keen on drones reading citizens for any reason at 200 ft. Just wonder who will be the first arrested for shooting 1 out of the sky . Sadly we've become polarized bands who thrive of political divisions and consider all needed answers and solutions to fall therein. We judge, ridicule and close down on nothing more than catch phrases, dumb hats or banners and single policy stances. For many we go no further than the capital letter on a voter registration to disagree. Mass social media literally with every step now sees large swaths not seek out 'truths or facts' and cross reference points we may disagree with..but simply seek out like minds and narratives agreed with and bunker down like immovable objects. I'll never understand it. We're free thinkers in a beautiful land. Politicians are not teen idols or team sports, they all equally have not earned that freely given adoration. It is healthy to be skeptical but don't be sheep.

Term limits. We need term limits in Congress. Congress is not a forward looking body. They see only the best way to maintain their power and influence much of what involved creating massive programs and piling on the debt. If these idiots had 2 terms politics could be a lot different. A line item veto would be nice but I understand the Supreme Court saying it gives too much power to the executive. Still, it’s the only way to get rid of some of the pork in these bills

if politicians were unpaid or on a type of minimum wage without benefits i think we would have much better people in control