Non-British perspective: Froch easier to like than was Calzaghe

[Dia bando]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

At it again.

[Dia bando]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

May I ask you is there any Turkish Boxers , that are World Champions in the pro ranks I can't think of any
can you smart ass.

[Althugz]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

May I ask you is there any Turkish Boxers , that are World Champions in the pro ranks I can't think of any
can you smart ass.

I'm British "smart ass" - Which also has zero to do with JC's credentials as a boxer. My parents are cypriot.

As for your question, there have been a few but they mostly sucked. Firat Arslan, Oktay Urkal at welter (was he ever champ?), Selcuk Aydin will probably get his hands on a useless trinket at some point (he sucks balls).

I still don't get your point? Did you have one apart from the ever mature, "My country is better than yours?"

This ladies and gents is exactly what I mean by "The Brits" that can't be objective. It's not all of us but many just can't. Blind patriotism I'm afraid I don't do..Which is why I say what I see when it comes to JC's career whilst you merely go off topic about Turkish fighters and other such irrelevant fluff.

Let's stay on topic shall we?

[Dia bando]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

May I ask you is there any Turkish Boxers , that are World Champions in the pro ranks I can't think of any
can you smart ass.

I'm British "smart ass" - Which also has zero to do with JC's credentials as a boxer. My parents are cypriot.

As for your question, there have been a few but they mostly sucked. Firat Arslan, Oktay Urkal at welter (was he ever champ?), Selcuk Aydin will probably get his hands on a useless trinket at some point (he sucks balls).

I still don't get your point? Did you have one apart from the ever mature, "My country is better than yours?"

This ladies and gents is exactly what I mean by "The Brits" that can't be objective. It's not all of us but many just can't. Blind patriotism I'm afraid I don't do..Which is why I say what I see when it comes to JC's career whilst you merely go off topic about Turkish fighters and other such irrelevant fluff.

Let's stay on topic shall we?

Did I hit a nerve.

[Dia bando]

You must have spent some time on Boxrec , it's not normally like you have a answer for every thing
as you say you are all way's right.

[Beanz]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

May I ask you is there any Turkish Boxers , that are World Champions in the pro ranks I can't think of any
can you smart ass.

I'm British "smart ass" - Which also has zero to do with JC's credentials as a boxer. My parents are cypriot.

As for your question, there have been a few but they mostly sucked. Firat Arslan, Oktay Urkal at welter (was he ever champ?), Selcuk Aydin will probably get his hands on a useless trinket at some point (he sucks balls).

I still don't get your point? Did you have one apart from the ever mature, "My country is better than yours?"

This ladies and gents is exactly what I mean by "The Brits" that can't be objective. It's not all of us but many just can't. Blind patriotism I'm afraid I don't do..Which is why I say what I see when it comes to JC's career whilst you merely go off topic about Turkish fighters and other such irrelevant fluff.

Let's stay on topic shall we?

When you refer to "Brits" in the third person and then have a Turkish Flag as your first flag next to your avatar how is anyone supposed to guess that your parents are Cypriot and that you class yourself as British? You are projecting a blind patriotism that really is not there for most posters in this debate. Your own prejudice has blinded you to the facts that the only ones getting emotional and "angry" in this debate are the Calzaghe haters.

You because you are a bit of a noob who used to hate boxing and still have to fully appreciate it's complexities, start calling Brit fans "deluded", moderators "morons" and "douche lords" and saying things like it was "Jeff Lacy FFS", Lacy was the overwhelming favourite much like Bute in the Froch fight.

Titofan started with his opening post, whilst claiming to be about comparing Calzaghe with Froch, he quickly degenerated into slagging off Calzaghe ,with nonsensical arguments about him slapping and having a "gaudy record", whatever that is,maybe because Trinidad lost to Roy Jones Jr and Hopkins? who knows. It then turns out that he hadn't bothered to watch a lot of his fights or find out much about his change of styles, not surprising really from someone who finishes the same post saying of Froch "I'd like to see him fight more in the U.S., where we'd have more of a chance to see him" Well guess what? nobody stateside was interested because they had already written him off. When Calzaghe fought Kessler in front of 50 000 fans at the Millenium stadium they televised that in America, that must say something about Joe Calzaghe's likeability.

[TitoFan]

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO. Marciano I'm not too sure about.

Explain the difference between Hopkins and Cazlaghe's title defences?

First, you claim I said Calzaghe ducked people. There goes what little's left of your credibility right there. Second, I said "opponents". You're specifying "title defenses". Another blow to your negligible credibility. But I'll humor you and list the opponents:

Hopkins

Glen Johnson
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad
William Joppy
Oscar de la Hoya
Howard Eastman
Jermain Taylor (twice)
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Kelly Pavlik
Roy Jones Jr.
Chad Dawson

Calzaghe

Eubank
Jeff Lacy
Kessler
Hopkins
RJJ


Oh...... and Peter Manfredo.

Next!

Its not Calzaghes fault that 168 was anorexic at his peak anymore then it was the fault of Hopkins for a mediocre 160 division

I beg to differ with the Calzaghe/Hopkins/Marciano opponents comparison. Hopkins, throughout his remarkable career, fought more than a handful of big name opponents. His list more than stacks up against Calzaghe's opponents list, IMO.

You said "I beg to differ" about a comparison made between Calzaghe at 168 and Hopkins at 160. What does Hopkins post 160 career have to do with it?

It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with. Fact.

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

[TitoFan]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

May I ask you is there any Turkish Boxers , that are World Champions in the pro ranks I can't think of any
can you smart ass.

I'm sorry, dude. But what the flying fuck does this have to with anything?

Jury, please disregard the previous argument.

[TitoFan]

...maybe because Trinidad lost to Roy Jones Jr and Hopkins? who knows.

Ok bro... I don't dislike you as I do Fenny, whose arrogance is surpassed only by his non-sensical arguments. But I'm noticing a disturbing trend here. You don't counter an argument against Calzaghe's style by lashing out at how many champion boxers Turkey has or doesn't have, or by mentioning Trinidad's losses. Trust me.... it doesn't look good in what should be a debate about Calzaghe's style.

Some of you people need to learn debating techniques. But I'm not picking on you. I've seen some other doozies on this thread. For instance... a poster claimed Ali used to slap also. But when I gave him a technical explanation as to why Ali was not a slapper.... his counter argument was: "Oh yes he did." Haven't heard from him since.

Someone else reads my argument about why Calzaghe's opponents haven't been all that.... and counters with: "Oh yeah? List the fighters you claim Calzaghe ducked?" Hard to argue with warped logic like that.

[Althugz]

For gods sakes Tito! How dare you question JC's career and choice to fight Peter Manfredo Jr in his 40 something'th fight?? Can't you see he challenged himself at least 3 or 4 times in his career!? Such a hater!!

May I ask you is there any Turkish Boxers , that are World Champions in the pro ranks I can't think of any
can you smart ass.

I'm sorry, dude. But what the flying fuck does this have to with anything?

Jury, please disregard the previous argument.

..and Greenbeanz tried to defend this argument? Absolute fail..and he expected me to read the rest of his drivel?

You are bang on with the trend you notice :- Calzaghe fans will never debate. ALWAYS deflect. They'll call you out on your parents nationality, hobbies, your favourite boxers nationality and why is that? I guess they ran out of meaningful arguments for Joke Calzaghe's career. That tells me everything I need to know.

[Fenster]

(TitoFan sighs... and summons up patience in the face of ignorance)

I "beg to differ" about the comparison of the fighters' opponents throughout their careers. Are you grasping at straws now, out of sheer desperation, and the realization that you have no argument? So quality of opponents ceases to be a factor once you've changed divisions? We can only compare quality of opposition within specific weight divisions? Do you really believe your own shit? ......... really?

LOL... are we also referring to ourselves in the 3rd person now?
"It's not Fenster's credibility you should be concerned with."

TitoFan says Fenster full of shit.

Insulting me doesn't disguise your glaring ignorance.

1. IamInuit SPECIFICALLY made a comparision between Hopkins and Calzaghe's divisional title runs. You SPECIFICALLY chose to answer "I beg to differ"

Now you either don't know anything about their career title runs or you didn't understand the point. Either way, the way you replied, you look stupid. Fact.

2. You were NEVER asked to name fighters YOU claim Calzaghe ducked. You were asked to name supermiddles that Cazlaghe didn't fight (ducked). This question stemmed SPECIFICALLY from your "I beg to differ" Hopkins/Calzaghe title run comparision.

So stop lying, stop crying and focus on the questions posed instead of insulting The Fenster. Fact

[BIG H]

Hopkins reign at MW stunk until Tito. Best wins Vanderpool and Johnson. It's a shocking set of defenses over a 7 year period. After Tito, he fought nobodies again at MW, until DLH, who was a former Lighweight. You can't give Hopkins credit for opponents he lost to in this argument (also not opponents that weren't at MW) The best wins of B-Hops career (imo) are Tito and Pavlik, followed by Tarver and Pascal. He lost to RJJ, Taylor and Calzaghe and therefore those fights are not valid in the argument about his resume.

Similarly JCs opponents stank up to Lacy. Brewer, Reid, Mitchell, Woodhall and Eubank are probably more credible than B-Hop's MW opponents.

I am saying this completely objectively! Neither had realy good wins until later in their careers. It's not their fault that the oppositions was so mediocre. Prime for Prime, p4p, taking everytghing into consideration, they are hard to split. Each beats everybody on each others records up to their defining fights.

[Dia bando]

...maybe because Trinidad lost to Roy Jones Jr and Hopkins? who knows.

Ok bro... I don't dislike you as I do Fenny, whose arrogance is surpassed only by his non-sensical arguments. But I'm noticing a disturbing trend here. You don't counter an argument against Calzaghe's style by lashing out at how many champion boxers Turkey has or doesn't have, or by mentioning Trinidad's losses. Trust me.... it doesn't look good in what should be a debate about Calzaghe's style.

Some of you people need to learn debating techniques. But I'm not picking on you. I've seen some other doozies on this thread. For instance... a poster claimed Ali used to slap also. But when I gave him a technical explanation as to why Ali was not a slapper.... his counter argument was: "Oh yes he did." Haven't heard from him since.

Someone else reads my argument about why Calzaghe's opponents haven't been all that.... and counters with: "Oh yeah? List the fighters you claim Calzaghe ducked?" Hard to argue with warped logic like that.

Tito you are from Porto Rico you stick up for fighters from your country don't you! but this cock I'm being nice now, who say's he's a Brit is full of crap.Most of his post he put's Fuck Calzaghe Billy no mates here is playing a game he loves this shit. He is what we call a shit stirrer he play's people.

[Glinchdogg]

Your right froch is way easier to like than calzaghe

[Beanz]

...maybe because Trinidad lost to Roy Jones Jr and Hopkins? who knows.

Ok bro... I don't dislike you as I do Fenny, whose arrogance is surpassed only by his non-sensical arguments. But I'm noticing a disturbing trend here. You don't counter an argument against Calzaghe's style by lashing out at how many champion boxers Turkey has or doesn't have, or by mentioning Trinidad's losses. Trust me.... it doesn't look good in what should be a debate about Calzaghe's style.

Some of you people need to learn debating techniques. But I'm not picking on you. I've seen some other doozies on this thread. For instance... a poster claimed Ali used to slap also. But when I gave him a technical explanation as to why Ali was not a slapper.... his counter argument was: "Oh yes he did." Haven't heard from him since.

Someone else reads my argument about why Calzaghe's opponents haven't been all that.... and counters with: "Oh yeah? List the fighters you claim Calzaghe ducked?" Hard to argue with warped logic like that.

@TitoFan I have not lashed out and will not be trusting your judgement when it comes to what works in a debate unless I am eager to have my ass whipped. I did not counter any argument about Calzaghe's style by bringing up Turkish Boxers, I merely responded calmly to Altugs usual tactic of overcompensating for the fact he is British and therefore could never see himself as neutral, unless he slags off not only British Boxers like Calzaghe, Froch and Hatton but also UK fans who he refers to as Brits. Apparently even though your signature says otherwise it is inexcusable to have any national pride when it comes to boxing and so Dia Bando despite being a proud Welsh man should just say nothing when Altug gets a bit personal and precious?. As for Trinidad's losses they are the only common opponents he shares with JC so they are entirely relevant and may explain your irrational rage against Calzaghe's style.

What you and Altug seem to be saying is that every judge, boxing commentator, trainer, boxer or fan who thought JC's punches were legitimate scoring (and in some cases debilitating) shots, and not slaps are both deluded and in collusion?