I'll play devil's advocate....

[Von Milash]

The more I learn about martial arts the more I think it's all a big joke. With the exception of a few where there is a great deal of technical proficiency involved like BJJ, they're all the same..... the same blocks you couldn't do in a a real situation, the same old kicks that wouldn't so shit, and other crap that would never work in a real situation unless you happen to be fighting a guy who's fighting the same style. Let's take karate. Hi-YA! whatever. Look where their hands are. At their waist. That's useless.

The truth is, the guy who hits the hardest and fastest, who's better at not geting hit and who fights dirtier will win. In a nutshell, most martial arts have zero practicality. THe best thing to do is become technically proficient in striking and learn how to kick a guy HARD in the shins with a steel-toed boot.

[Von Milash]

My point is this: do I really need to train in martial arts to know to put my arm up to a block a punch... a punch that happens to be thrown massively incorrectly and telegraphed... or to lower my hands to block a low kick or to catch his high kicks? Same old crap, different chinese or japanese name.

[Munkymagic]

Anyone who thinks Martial arts will save them in a street fight has been mislead. Martial arts are attributes which give you an edge in a fight IF you adapt your art for the street and you know what will work and what won't. Anyone who has been in a real blood and snot encounter knows that it isn't just technical ability that counts (as a matter of fact it counts for very little) but ones ability to deal with adrenaline and a whole host of other factors.

If you train Flashy high kicks all the time and you spar with high kicks in a situation where adrenaline is a factor ie competition karate,TKD then because of muscle memory you will attempt this as your primary strike when under duress because muscle memory has conditioned you to do so.This can get you badly hurt. To cover all overlapping ranges in a street fight then you need one striking technique (preferably hands...most altercations take place in a br etc so no time to get off kicks) and Judo IMO is the best bet (ok so i am biased ) To cover in close and clinch work.

Ive done a few martial arts but now train specifically gross motor techniques that are not hard to learn and can be applied with devastating power. Judo is my backup system.

Not to be too bigheaded but i reckon i could train someone and have them hitting hard and accurate on the pads and bags, enough to KO an opponent, in less than half a day. Using only gross motor strikes such as hammerfist and palm strikes. I would also add in some pain and adrenal stress training by placing a kubotan (small wooden/metal bar) across their radial bone whilst they tried to still hit the pads with focus and power.Thus teaching them to hit through pain. I would also cover situationl awareness, body language, posturing and target hardening. I would also ensure they knew the value of pre-emptive shots and the law surrounding them. Also a small bit on the general MO of a would be attacker.

Now this half a days training in my mind would prepare them better for the street than someone who had done 10 years karate training and is a black belt in their art.

[Von Milash]

great post. This wing chun has to be the biggest load of garbage going.

http://www.sifugrados.com/mcvideos.shtml

I guess you've gotta hand it to that guy. If he has suckers convinced enough that they'll actually pay money to learn his little fist rolls and whatnot, all the power to him, because Lord knows there's no power in his combat method. Amazing how he knows exactly what's coming and how easy it is to throw that fat blimp to the ground with almost zero effort. I especially loved his little backhand slap that rocked his assailant's world at the end of the second video.

[VictorCharlie]

I've been in my fair share of fights...done some boxing work, BJJ, wrestling and MMA work. My experience has been that quite often violence of action will carry the day. If you are talking about two people that are relatively the same size and strength the individual who is more aggressive and willing to take the fight to his opponent will win. I know alot of big guys that have never been in a fight b/c their sheer size intimidated most people but when they day came to back their words up I could see they weren't sure of themselves. The actual experience of being in a fight is immeasurable. Knowing how you take a punch, how you fight when fatigued etc. If we are just talking about self defense for the average guy I'd tell someone to workout at a boxing gym(yes Von I said boxing) and do some training in judo/wrestling. I love submission grappling but I'm not under any dillusions that in a bar or back alley I'm going to pull out a straight armbar. Simply how to avoid a punch, punch effectively, control someones body in a clinch and right attitude will win most real world fights or do enough to save your own ass

[Munkymagic]

I've been in my fair share of fights...done some boxing work, BJJ, wrestling and MMA work. My experience has been that quite often violence of action will carry the day. If you are talking about two people that are relatively the same size and strength the individual who is more aggressive and willing to take the fight to his opponent will win. I know alot of big guys that have never been in a fight b/c their sheer size intimidated most people but when they day came to back their words up I could see they weren't sure of themselves. The actual experience of being in a fight is immeasurable. Knowing how you take a punch, how you fight when fatigued etc. If we are just talking about self defense for the average guy I'd tell someone to workout at a boxing gym(yes Von I said boxing) and do some training in judo/wrestling. I love submission grappling but I'm not under any dillusions that in a bar or back alley I'm going to pull out a straight armbar. Simply how to avoid a punch, punch effectively, control someones body in a clinch and right attitude will win most real world fights or do enough to save your own a**

Pretty much what I've said in the past. Mindset plays a huge part. LIke ive said before though, the exchanging of punches is just one part of self defence, the pre conflict phase and succesful pre-emption is the key. If all these things are spot on then it wont even come to conflict, your assailant should be laying KOed on the floor whilst you make your escape. If you get involved in a match fight though ie: if some ansks you for a 'square go' then its a different matter altogether.
I know a lot of people that have been psyched out of a fight due to the person they are challenging 'postured' and psyched them out. be carefu though...if someone gives you the old "you spill my F****** pint...wanna go outside you kunt??" If you say "yeah come on then"...make sure you have the tools to back it up as not all people get psyched out.

[Von Milash]

(yes Von I said boxing)

[bigragu]

great post. This wing chun has to be the biggest load of garbage going.

http://www.sifugrados.com/mcvideos.shtml

I guess you've gotta hand it to that guy. If he has suckers convinced enough that they'll actually pay money to learn his little fist rolls and whatnot, all the power to him, because Lord knows there's no power in his combat method. Amazing how he knows exactly what's coming and how easy it is to throw that fat blimp to the ground with almost zero effort. I especially loved his little backhand slap that rocked his assailant's world at the end of the second video.

that dude is total SHAT!!!!! with all his b*tch puches and coreographed throws.....CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!

[Von Milash]

Amen. A total fucking con artist. It's comical how easily that kid in the body armour was thrown down. A 5year old girl is tougher that that.

That stuff is nothing more than movie martial arts to impress little kids.

Remember that movie "The Five Deadly Venoms"? I remember two things about it... how cool it was and 2, why they always paused after every movement. In retrospec, totally fake, just like that moron's dojo.

[bigragu]

Amen. A total F****** con artist. It's comical how easily that kid in the body armour was thrown down. A 5year old girl is tougher that that.

That stuff is nothing more than movie martial arts to impress little kids.

Remember that movie "The Five Deadly Venoms"? I remember two things about it... how cool it was and 2, why they always paused after every movement. In retrospec, totally fake, just like that moron's dojo.

if you can get people to think you are a ba or know what you're doing they will pay because they think you can help them....and all he's doing is taking advantage of the helpless..just like a thug would...he is no different just mugging them in a non-violent way....those people will get violence if they attempt that crap on a real street fighter....

[Heavy D]

I think the one thing you guys all need to remember, and I mean EVERYONE, not just posters here, is that 99% of martial arts these days are NOT self-defense techniques. If they were, you'd learn them at your local pistol range for 70 bucks, with a 10 dollar annual renewal fee (that's a concealed carry license, if you haven't caught on :P ). For the most part, martial artists train to fight similar martial artists in a controlled environment for sport. The techniques they learn work because theyre designed to fight a guy doing the same thing theyre doing and conditioned to be blocked by the same blocks they themselves have learned.

The problem is that people forget this, and when it comes to a real fight, a guy doesn't stand there to get wristlocked, or isnt particularly fazed by a parry, jab or leg kick. As long as you know that, however, and realize that no martial art will save you from a weapon, theres no reason martial arts can't help you. Boxers aren't going to take up their stance, and try to jab away at someone, trying to force them into the corner, cuz no one would stand for that. But boxers can learn how to punch properly, and avoid punches, and use that to knock the bloody hell out of someone before they have a chance to hurt you. As you guys have already said, the martial arts can give you the clearheadedness to control yourself in a fight, and not curl up in the fetal crying because you got hurt.

Long post, but to summarize: Martial arts are sport these days, not self defense. If you want self defense, buy a knife and a pistol. If you DO get in a fight, dont be afraid to draw upon what you've learned to HELP you, but don't rely upon it, because people aren't going play by the rules that you, and everyone you've fought in competitions follow.

[Canvasback]

I'll give my two cents. I studied Chinese Kenpo for about 10 yrs. I thought it was pretty good until I got my a** kicked by some guy who knew Muay Thai. Since then I gave it up and have been doing boxing and Muay Thai. Unfortunately, most martial arts leave people with a false sense of confidence that they can defend themselves against any attacker. Anyone who has ever been in a real fight (outside the ring) knows how things tend to turn to sh*t when the going gets tough.