Most frustrating negotiations in boxing history

[TitoFan]

Part of what us boxing fans are forced to live with, are the ridiculously frustrating negotiations that sometimes occur between superstar fighters. Whether it's the promoters, the fighters themselves, whatever. These processes sometimes take years and years (sucking the excitement out these prospective fights)... and sometimes end up never happening at all. Throughout history, which fights do you consider the most maddening and frustrating as far as the negotiations are concerned? Whether the fight happened or not. I'll begin by throwing three out there for consideration.


1. Floyd-Pac: It finally happened... but years after the expiration date. Us fans were forced to finally settle for an inferior version of what should've been a once-in-a-millennium fight.

2. Wilder-Joshua: I've said it on another thread and I'll say it on this one. I couldn't care less, nor do I have the inside scoop to say who's fault it was. But the negotiations for this fight got so frustrating it made some fans want to fly over and slap some people around. Finally... in came Tyson Fury and saved the day by taking on Wilder.

3. Spence-Crawford: This one is rapidly approaching "I don't care if ever happens" territory. I see more back-and-forth on Facebook than we'll probably see in the fight itself IF... it ever happens.


They leave us hanging... and having pointless arguments with each other over who's ducking whom. Rich.



Any other fights in this category?

[Master]

Floyd v Paç Man was the biggest waste of time ever in the history of boxing.

Tyson v Spinks took some time to get made with Tyson clearing up the belts whilst Spinks took the novelty fights.

Bowe avoided Lennox and when he was ready Lewis lost the title.

Roy Jones v Benn/Eubank was mooted but never materialised.

Maybe the fighter's are getting too much for easier defences and not enough for the riskier fights?

[mikeeod]

Manny vs Floyd
BHOP vs Roy (2002-2004)
Bowe vs Lewis
Spence vs Crawford

[Master]

Calzaghe could not agree to face Ottko when he would have beaten him easily. Tarnished his name for me as Sven unified titles in front of Joe making him look second rate.

Hopkins used Calzaghe instead of facing him at super middleweight because he preferred to move to light heavyweight and take on Tarver.

Eubank and Benn would not even entertain taking on Herol Graham as he would humiliate them.

Hagler v Hearns 2 could not be agreed which was a shame.

Tyson v Holyfield, before he went to jail, was a drama and I feel team Holyfield were glad he was imprisoned.

[ykdadamaja]

Part of what us boxing fans are forced to live with, are the ridiculously frustrating negotiations that sometimes occur between superstar fighters. Whether it's the promoters, the fighters themselves, whatever. These processes sometimes take years and years (sucking the excitement out these prospective fights)... and sometimes end up never happening at all. Throughout history, which fights do you consider the most maddening and frustrating as far as the negotiations are concerned? Whether the fight happened or not. I'll begin by throwing three out there for consideration.


1. Floyd-Pac: It finally happened... but years after the expiration date. Us fans were forced to finally settle for an inferior version of what should've been a once-in-a-millennium fight.

2. Wilder-Joshua: I've said it on another thread and I'll say it on this one. I couldn't care less, nor do I have the inside scoop to say who's fault it was. But the negotiations for this fight got so frustrating it made some fans want to fly over and slap some people around. Finally... in came Tyson Fury and saved the day by taking on Wilder.

3. Spence-Crawford: This one is rapidly approaching "I don't care if ever happens" territory. I see more back-and-forth on Facebook than we'll probably see in the fight itself IF... it ever happens.


They leave us hanging... and having pointless arguments with each other over who's ducking whom. Rich.



Any other fights in this category?

But Spence is the only side talking now. Crawford's people aren't saying a thing. I could have sworn this could have been made for this November. It was so close and then it fell apart.

[Primo Carnera]

What intrigues me is that these guys fight so infrequently nowadays so they aren’t earning. You would think they would jump at the deal.

[imp]

We should boycott Spence and Crawford until they fight each other.

Sick of the pair of them.

Crawford should be the one to bend and accept the terms like Haney did.

Spence moves up to 154 and Crawford picks up the crumbs at 147.

[mikeeod]

Calzaghe could not agree to face Ottko when he would have beaten him easily. Tarnished his name for me as Sven unified titles in front of Joe making him look second rate.

Hopkins used Calzaghe instead of facing him at super middleweight because he preferred to move to light heavyweight and take on Tarver.

Eubank and Benn would not even entertain taking on Herol Graham as he would humiliate them.

Hagler v Hearns 2 could not be agreed which was a shame.

Tyson v Holyfield, before he went to jail, was a drama and I feel team Holyfield were glad he was imprisoned.

Evander moved up to fight Tyson specifically. Tyson was supposed to fight him after Douglas but lost, and then was supposed to fight him again but went to prison. If anything Evander was upset because he wanted the legitimacy and paydays a Tyson win would bring him. If there is one guy who never ducked anyone it is Evander- he always sought out the toughest competition and always had a “thing” for Tyson specifically. I don’t see any way you can come to the conclusion that Evander was part of any drama in any of those lead ups or negotiations.

[Master]

Calzaghe could not agree to face Ottko when he would have beaten him easily. Tarnished his name for me as Sven unified titles in front of Joe making him look second rate.

Hopkins used Calzaghe instead of facing him at super middleweight because he preferred to move to light heavyweight and take on Tarver.

Eubank and Benn would not even entertain taking on Herol Graham as he would humiliate them.

Hagler v Hearns 2 could not be agreed which was a shame.

Tyson v Holyfield, before he went to jail, was a drama and I feel team Holyfield were glad he was imprisoned.

Evander moved up to fight Tyson specifically. Tyson was supposed to fight him after Douglas but lost, and then was supposed to fight him again but went to prison. If anything Evander was upset because he wanted the legitimacy and paydays a Tyson win would bring him. If there is one guy who never ducked anyone it is Evander- he always sought out the toughest competition and always had a “thing” for Tyson specifically. I don’t see any way you can come to the conclusion that Evander was part of any drama in any of those lead ups or negotiations.

I agree Holyfield would take the fight to Tyson but "Team" Holyfield which had the Duva's would not have minded avoiding Tyson. They took on Foreman because the Tyson fight could not be agreed.

I feel that Tyson, pre-jail, would have beaten the lighter and less musclebound Holyfield.

[mikeeod]

Calzaghe could not agree to face Ottko when he would have beaten him easily. Tarnished his name for me as Sven unified titles in front of Joe making him look second rate.

Hopkins used Calzaghe instead of facing him at super middleweight because he preferred to move to light heavyweight and take on Tarver.

Eubank and Benn would not even entertain taking on Herol Graham as he would humiliate them.

Hagler v Hearns 2 could not be agreed which was a shame.

Tyson v Holyfield, before he went to jail, was a drama and I feel team Holyfield were glad he was imprisoned.

Evander moved up to fight Tyson specifically. Tyson was supposed to fight him after Douglas but lost, and then was supposed to fight him again but went to prison. If anything Evander was upset because he wanted the legitimacy and paydays a Tyson win would bring him. If there is one guy who never ducked anyone it is Evander- he always sought out the toughest competition and always had a “thing” for Tyson specifically. I don’t see any way you can come to the conclusion that Evander was part of any drama in any of those lead ups or negotiations.

I agree Holyfield would take the fight to Tyson but "Team" Holyfield which had the Duva's would not have minded avoiding Tyson. They took on Foreman because the Tyson fight could not be agreed.

I feel that Tyson, pre-jail, would have beaten the lighter and less musclebound Holyfield.

I respect your opinion and perspective- it is rare that we disagree on much which is why I always like discussing with you when we disagree (you have well thought out reasons and you don't get emotional/defensive). That being said, this is one that we definitely see differently, and I have to ask some follow up/clarifying questions. Specific areas I'm interested in hearing:
1. "Team Holyfield" not minding avoiding Tyson: I feel like the Duvas had a great reputation for matching that group of fighters (84 Olympians) tough- think about Sweet Pea Whitaker fighting McGirt and JCC, Meldrick Taylor fighting JCC and Terry Norris, and Evander fighting pretty much everyone and anyone from three generations of heavyweights (always fighting the toughest available competition). With the money they were set to make with the hype that surrounded Holyfield-Tyson, I think they were likely upset that the fight fell through. Again- it is one thing if we are talking PBC/Al Haymon since he has proven risk averse with outside/external fighters, but the Duvas consistently put their guys in with TOUGH competition.
2. It is all speculation, but Evander was pretty muscular when he beat Douglas and Foreman, and the truth is he was always a horrible style match up for Tyson. I don't see any version of Tyson ever beating any version of Evander. Holyfield's kryptonite was LARGE heavyweights with great jabs (Bowe and Lewis), or really slick boxers who didn't let him counter punch (Toney, Larry Donald, Chris Byrd). Put Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson, David Tua...etc. in front of him and he looked amazing.

[Master]

The Holyfield that beat Douglas and Foreman was 208lb so was lighter than when he bulked up and faced Tyson after prison. Holyfield real weakness was he liked a war and it cost him against Bowe who was too big for him the first time. Cooper nearly knocked him out.

I think Tyson was nearer his peak and could have beaten Holyfield if they fought the first time. Tyson would destroy that body and thin waist before cracking that chin to stop him.

[greynotsoold]

Crawford did a lot to make the fight happen, and I don't think that Errol Spence was unwilling to fight. Al Haymon killed that fight.

[Primo Carnera]

Crawford did a lot to make the fight happen, and I don't think that Errol Spence was unwilling to fight. Al Haymon killed that fight.

I’ve never conversed with you on here, but you’re clearly the most knowledgeable guy about the “business end” of American boxing, so when you talk , I listen. Why do you think Haymon would scupper the fight?
Is it too risky for his fighter in his opinion?
I’m just intrigued because it’s pretty clear this is THE Money fight.

[Ron Swanson]

Let’s be very clear. We know for a fact Bud is lying

He said he accepted all the terms for a fight on February 23rd. The fact he accepted a different fight absolutely proves that is not true.

He also said he told Haymon and Spence that he was taking a fight this year, Espinoza says categorically that that is a lie. If you’re already lying why not add more lies?

Now. When you are assigning blame, what is a good way to start? One way is looking at who you know is lying. If the truth is on your side you don’t need to lie. We know Bud is lying so…

[Primo Carnera]

Let’s be very clear. We know for a fact Bud is lying

He said he accepted all the terms for a fight on February 23rd. The fact he accepted a different fight absolutely proves that is not true.

He also said he told Haymon and Spence that he was taking a fight this year, Espinoza says categorically that that is a lie. If you’re already lying why not add more lies?

Now. When you are assigning blame, what is a good way to start? One way is looking at who you know is lying. If the truth is on your side you don’t need to lie. We know Bud is lying so…

Don’t take this as me taking Crawford’s side, because I don’t know the ins and outs of these negotiations, but how do you know Espinoza isn’t lying?