30 Seconds With Ruben Olivares

[marbleheadmaui]

Greysnotold's wonderful comment of "Lionel Rose must have thought he was fighting a Leopard in a tree" when he faced Mexican great Ruben "Puas" Olivares go me to thinking.

Lionel Rose is the undisputed bantamweight champion of the world. The Aussie had taken the crown from ATG Fighting Harada in Tokyo eighteen months prior to this fight and had defended it against #4 ranked Takao Sakurai also in Tokyo, against #2 ranked Chucho Castillo and against #1 ranked Alan Rudkin. Rose is characterized by slick boxing moves, great reflexes and his youth. He is one of only a handful of teenaged boxing champions. He won the crown at 19 and has yet to see his 21st birthday. Olivares at this moment is 51-0-1 and only twice have men gone the distance in his wins. It is a staggering record. Already Olivares has defeated three ranked men and he's only 22 himself.

Through the first four rounds Olivares has pursued Rose and Rose has tried to keep distance and make Olivares miss. The Aussie did an effective job of that in the last round although the Mexican's body work is already beginning to tell. .

Start the attached footage at the 4:00 mark. This is round five and ninety seconds are already gone.

4:00-Olivares throws a left to the body, left to the head and a straight right to the body. Rose drops his hands in response and attempts to retreat.

4:04-Olivares takes two quick shuffle steps to reassert distance control and as Rose turns sharply to his right to protect his belly, Olivares thumps a right hand to the ribs and misses with a left uppercut.

4:05-Olivares retreats for a moment to examine Rose who leans to his right and Olivares pounces!

4:06-Olivares throws a four punch combination, over under and over, moving his feet with each punch and Rose tries to escape along the ropes.

4:10-Olivares pursues the champion and as soon as he is in range he lands a left and a right to the body. Olivares' timing is impeccable. As soon as he is in range, bombs away. The right drives Rose to the ropes.

4:12-Rose comes off the ropes and because Ruben has not collapsed the distance between them he is able to launch an absolute fusillade which begins with another right hand to the body.

4:14-Olivares throws eleven unanswered punches; three hooks to the head followed by an overhand right. Olivares moves his feet with every single punch. This drives Rose back to the ropes where he crouches deeply and it makes Olivares miss with a right uppercut. But because the Mexican has maintained distance he now lands a thumping left to the body and then two uppercuts to the face before Rose can move laterally. Then as Rose does escape along the ropes Olivares lands a thudding right to the ribs followed by a left hook upstairs. Olivares feet are flying and he asserts a new angle with each of the last two shots and he also slipped a Rose counter hook.

4:20-Rose now spins the action 180 degress and lurches to ring center, Olivares once again in pursuit.

4:24-Olivares closes and before Rose can strike lands a right to the body and a left to the head that buckles the champion and stepping across the face of the now pivoting Rose lands two more left hands and a crashing right to the head.

4:26-Rose tries to retreat both in terms of distance and in pivoting his body to change angles himself but it is no use. Olivares takes two lightning steps to his left and now Rose is once again squared up and Olivares launches one more offensive whirlwind. Left to the head, right to the head, left to the body, left uppercut on the chin, right to the head (missing) and finishes with left to the head (which Rose thinks will be to the body so he drops his elbow) and Rose is down. Olivares once again has moved his feet with every punch.

In 28 seconds Olivares has thrown, by my count, thirty-one punches and has landed twenty eight or so against the formidable Rose. Of the thirty one, eight were lefts to the body, eight left hooks upstairs, four left uppercuts, five rights to the body, five right hands to the head and a single right uppercut. How's that for punch variety in a short span of time? Of course, not a single jab.

A leopard in a tree.

[THE THIRD MAN]

Olivares is arguably the greatest Bantamweight of all time, Rose held off Castillo and no matter what anyone might think, he actually beat Castillo more than what the controversy shows. Olivares was a different beast altogether. Rose was weight drained, but the early rounds show he had great evasive skills and landed many shots himself. Olivares was just relentless, he just kept moving forward, throwing punches, not wildly or recklessly, he was measured, he had purpose, he was incredibly accurate. Rose was doomed.
The one fight i would've liked to have seen was Olivares V Eder Jofre. Jofre made a comeback in 1969 and took out former featherwieght champion Vicente Saldivar in 4 rounds, what a fight it would've been against Olivares, both fighters were fighting at Featherweight in 1973.
How about a dream match at 118 Olivares V Zarate?

[FinitoElDinamita]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

[marbleheadmaui]

Olivares is arguably the greatest Bantamweight of all time, Rose held off Castillo and no matter what anyone might think, he actually beat Castillo more than what the controversy shows. Olivares was a different beast altogether. Rose was weight drained, but the early rounds show he had great evasive skills and landed many shots himself. Olivares was just relentless, he just kept moving forward, throwing punches, not wildly or recklessly, he was measured, he had purpose, he was incredibly accurate. Rose was doomed.
The one fight i would've liked to have seen was Olivares V Eder Jofre. Jofre made a comeback in 1969 and took out former featherwieght champion Vicente Saldivar in 4 rounds, what a fight it would've been against Olivares, both fighters were fighting at Featherweight in 1973.
How about a dream match at 118 Olivares V Zarate?

Nice post.

The Jofre-Olivares one is particularly interesting. My initial thinking was Jofre was too technically sound and quick for Olivares to track down and he handled another skilled banger twice in Jose Medel. Then I remembered that the one man who beat Jofre was an unrelenting pursuit beast like Olivares, but without the punch, Fighting Harada.

That's a pick'em in my view. I could argue either way.

Olivares-Zarate seems clearer to me. Puas went ten rounds leading the great Arguello up at 126. Arguello was a bigger, harder punching version of Zarate it seems to me. Both tall and long and classic stand up fighters, both adept at picking off punches with their gloves, both excellent technically but not overly quick, both preferred to pursue rather than retreat, both had excellent chins and lethal power with both hands. My guess is if Olivares could do that at 126? At 118 he wins a decision over the great Zarate.

I'd give my left arm to own a time machine that allowed me to see a 1962 Jofre or a 1977 Zarate against a 1969 Olivares.

[greynotsoold]

The thing that I always found interesting about Zarate was that his "go-to" punch was that harmless looking left uppercut to the body. He really worked that punch. And I hate to pick against him (I still haven't seen Zarate/Gomez) but I think that Olivares would beat him. Zarate handled Zamora pretty well, but Olivares, while based on the same theory, was a whole lot more.

[ICB]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

[marbleheadmaui]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

[ICB]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

[marbleheadmaui]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

To say we disagree would be an understatement. In my view he is the #2 Mexican fighter and no worse than the #2 bantam.

For example, you say Olivares lost twoice to Herrera, yet somehow don't mention Chandler, another great fighter, lost twice to a fighter who couldn't carry Rafael's jock in Richie Sandoval.

To have Orlando Canizales, who defeated fewer than five ranked guys in his career on this list is a joke as near as I can tell.

[ICB]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

To say we disagree would be an understatement. In my view he is the #2 Mexican fighter and no worse than the #2 bantam.

For example, you say Olivares lost twoice to Herrera, yet somehow don't mention Chandler, another great fighter, lost twice to a fighter who couldn't carry Rafael's jock in Richie Sandoval.

To have Orlando Canizales, who defeated fewer than five ranked guys in his career on this list is a joke as near as I can tell.

Well there you go thats exactly my point, you rate him as this and that. Which is exactly why i think he is overrated.

Jeff Chandler only lost once to Rinchie Sandoval, and wasn't interested in the fight and looked very lacklusture. Which is why he retired soon after and also because of his detatched retina.

That wasn't his prime unlike Ruben Olivares, clearly losing twice in his prime actually 3 times including his loss to Castillo.

That's why i said P4P meaning in head to head match ups, not comparing there actual career's. And yes i do think a prime Olrando Canizales wins, he was a fantastic fighter at using angles and was the complete package.

[FinitoElDinamita]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

Exactly.. I agree 100% That highlighted part is gold..

[marbleheadmaui]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

To say we disagree would be an understatement. In my view he is the #2 Mexican fighter and no worse than the #2 bantam.

For example, you say Olivares lost twoice to Herrera, yet somehow don't mention Chandler, another great fighter, lost twice to a fighter who couldn't carry Rafael's jock in Richie Sandoval.

To have Orlando Canizales, who defeated fewer than five ranked guys in his career on this list is a joke as near as I can tell.

Well there you go thats exactly my point, you rate him as this and that. Which is exactly why i think he is overrated.

Jeff Chandler only lost once to Rinchie Sandoval, and wasn't interested in the fight and looked very lacklusture. Which is why he retired soon after and also because of his detatched retina.

That wasn't his prime unlike Ruben Olivares, clearly losing twice in his prime actually 3 times including his loss to Castillo.

That's why i said P4P meaning in head to head match ups, not comparing there actual career's. And yes i do think a prime Olrando Canizales wins, he was a fantastic fighter at using angles and was the complete package.

Well wait a minute. Jeff Chandler reitres at TWENTY SEVEN and he wasn't in his prime??

But it's sorta moot. If your criteria is your own guesswork of how head to head matchups would go? No point in talking about it. It's just guessing.

But even by that non-criteria, Canizales?? Who the hell did he ever beat that could give any confidence he could handle a great fighter? Bones Adams?

[ICB]

Soo Hwan Hong knocks out the overrated Olivares.

Zarate/Olivares would have been cool.

I also think Ruben Olivares is overrated, his prime was just too short. And when he was still in his prime he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, and didn't make a succesful move moving up in weight either.

First off Hererra was one hell of a fighter, no shame there. Secondly since when is becoming champion after moving up not succeeding?

It also baffles me how one can "overrate" the best of the greatest era of bantams.

Because on alot of rankings he's rated the Best Bantamweight of all time, aswell as the best Mexican fighter of all time. That simply isn't true and im not slating Rafael Herrera, he was a very good fighter.

But the fact remains he beat Ruben Olivares in his prime twice, and twice he proved he was clearly the better man without controversy.

I think there were plenty of better Mexican fighters.

Salvador Sanchez
Julio Cesar Chavez
MAB
Erik Morales
Juan Manuel Marquez
Miguel Canto
Vincente Saldivar
Ricardo Lopez

And better Bantamweights P4P

Jeff Chandler
Carlos Zarate
Eder Jofre
Orlando Canizales

To say we disagree would be an understatement. In my view he is the #2 Mexican fighter and no worse than the #2 bantam.

For example, you say Olivares lost twoice to Herrera, yet somehow don't mention Chandler, another great fighter, lost twice to a fighter who couldn't carry Rafael's jock in Richie Sandoval.

To have Orlando Canizales, who defeated fewer than five ranked guys in his career on this list is a joke as near as I can tell.

Well there you go thats exactly my point, you rate him as this and that. Which is exactly why i think he is overrated.

Jeff Chandler only lost once to Rinchie Sandoval, and wasn't interested in the fight and looked very lacklusture. Which is why he retired soon after and also because of his detatched retina.

That wasn't his prime unlike Ruben Olivares, clearly losing twice in his prime actually 3 times including his loss to Castillo.

That's why i said P4P meaning in head to head match ups, not comparing there actual career's. And yes i do think a prime Olrando Canizales wins, he was a fantastic fighter at using angles and was the complete package.

Well wait a minute. Jeff Chandler reitres at TWENTY SEVEN and he wasn't in his prime??

But it's sorta moot. If your criteria is your own guesswork of how head to head matchups would go? No point in talking about it. It's just guessing.

But even by that non-criteria, Canizales?? Who the hell did he ever beat that could give any confidence he could handle a great fighter? Bones Adams?

What has age got to do with anything ? Mike Tyson's prime ended in his early 20's, Donald Curry's prime ended when he was 26, Riddick Bowe was shot at 28.

Your also forgetting the detatched retina, and all you have to do is watch the fight. To see he was lazy and disinterested, it was hardly the same Jeff Chandler who was awesome vs Gaby Canizales, and Gaby Canizales himself tortured Richie Sandoval when they met.

Orlando Canizales never beat a great fighter, but he beat some solid fighters. You could say that about other long championship reigns, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't do well in head to head match ups.

Orlando Canizales was very gifted and was never beaten convincingly by anyone, he also deserved the win vs Wilfredo Vasquez when he moved up in weight.

[CutMeMick]

A part of me just died slowly as I read this thread...

[ICB]

A part of me just died slowly as I read this thread...

I don't know why all i've said is that i don't think Ruben Olivares, is the number 1 Mexican fighter. IMO i've seen plenty of better Mexican fighters aswell as Mexican fighters with better records.

He was very good for short period then he lost twice to Rafael Herrera convincingly, in his prime and at his peak weight. And then moved up in weight and lost to pretty much every elite Featherweight except Bobby Chacon.

I just go by what i've seen and know, and in my personal opinion i think fighters like Sanchez, Zarate, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, ETC. Are greater fighters.