Kell Brook v Errol Spence Jr - 27/5/17 Sheffield UK

[Primo Carnera]

Where are your top five Italians then? And you can't choose Italian Americans or Glaswegians who like pizza.

Hang on a minute , "piss take Pete", if you can have Khan from Pakistan , Brook,Degale and Joshua (Afro Carribbean) and many many others, I'm having, Carnera (Naturally), Willie Pep, Marciano , La Motta and CALZAGHE! I was the neutral here, I never said that the Italians were better than the Americans, but then I wouldn't be so arrogant!!

Khan was born in Bolton, Calzaghe is a cockney, Brook, Degale etc are all British. If you have spent your entire life in Britain how can you then be a neutral? Pep etc were all born in America. So how can they be Italian?Weak argument just like your Khan nonsense.

So what is Lennox Lewis? Canadian Olympic gold medal winner.
What does it matter where you were born?
Khan asked/virtually begged to represent Pakistan in the Olympics and I think his brother actually did represent Pakistan.

[Beanz]

What a daft thing to say. So despite Khan being born in England and living in England he apparently is not English according to you. Next you will be telling us you were born in Britain, spent your entire life in Britain but don't consider yourself British :-P and of course Lewis is British he was born and lived in London till he was 12, pretty formative years. The mental gymnastics you have to employ to suggest that all these British boxers, mainly of colour are not British is the same you are using to dismiss Khan. Funny stuff.

[erics44]

Miguel Francis: Antigua and Barbuda sprinter switches allegiance to Britain - BBC Sport

my dad is irish

what do you think about that?

[Beanz]

Miguel Francis: Antigua and Barbuda sprinter switches allegiance to Britain - BBC Sport

my dad is irish

what do you think about that?

I think it doesn't make you a Paddy anymore than my Nan being a Romany Gypsy born in Ireland makes me Irish. It's part of our heritage just like having A Jewish family is part of mine. I don't go around telling people I am a Jewish Gyspy though, unless they ask about it. I tell everyone that I am English because that is where I was born and have lived the majority of my life. I am very proud and happy to be English, not ashamed by it. Probably means you could have boxed or played sport for Denmark Norway Sweden Ireland though mate does it not, him being your old man?

[Beanz]

"Former titlist who struggled against Manny" and his thoughts on the fight

[Fenster]

@Primo Carnera - your entire reply has NOTHING to do with the original question you posed or the discussion I entered. The question was - where does Khan sit P4P in relation with other British fighters, not whether or not Khan is crap, which is all you've offered. However, i'll entertain your replies...

There's the Sound bite! You can't use the World champions he's beat to prove your point and then put "regardless of the quality or physical state they were in"

I haven't tried to prove a point, you've given me nothing to debate let alone prove. I made a statement based on fact. I qualified the statement precisely because the bare stat isn't definitive about a fighters quality/standing/abilty.

Zab - WHO DOESN'T BEAT ZAB? ANYONE WHO IS ANYONE BEAT ZAB.UNINSPIRING.
Peterson - two divison titlist, current welterweight titlist . AND LOST
Garcia - two divison titlist, current top welter.AND LOST
Diaz - former titlist. WAY PAST HIS BEST,FIGHTING AT A CAREER HIGH WEIGHT AND STILL GAVE KHAN TROUBLE
Collazo - former titlist. WHO HADNT FOUGHT ANYONE OF NOTE FOR A COUPLE YEARS, NOR SINCE
Alexander - two division titlist. ON THE SLIDE NO LONGER AT THE TOP LEVEL,BULLIED AND RUINED BY PORTER.
Algieri - former titlist. HERE'S THE THIN AIR. SO HE WON A WORLD TITLE, LOOK WHAT MANNY DID TO HIM , ATG OR NOT. AND HE FUCKING STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM.
Canelo - AND WAS BRUTALLY KO'd JUST LIKE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WOULD.

Khan is crap which inturn makes his competiton crap. However, your reasoning is not just hypocritical it's deeply flawed.

If Zab Judah is crap - easy to beat - then what makes Tyzyu, Cotto, Mayweather etc top fighters? He had lost against all-time greats, he was still a highly ranked world-class fighter when Khan beat him regardless of how crap you believe him to be.

You're quick to mention Diaz was fighting above his optimum weight yet completely ignore that Khan was at a natural weight disadvantage against Canelo, or that he drew with top ranked Shawn Porter right before losing to Khan.

Collazo pulled the upset by knocking out Victor Ortiz right before losing to Khan, after that he gave top ranked Keith Thurman a scare before pulling yet another upset by knocking out prospect Sammy Vasquez. You sure do set the bar high if these fights are "not of any note."

"Look what Manny did to Aligeri?" Manny is one of the greatest fighters that has ever lived. On one hand you're saying Khan is crap, on the other you're comparing his winning performances with an all-time great. Doesn't make sense.

p4p isn't about what you've done in the past, if it was Roy Jones Jr. Would still be in the top 10! It's about the here and now, and Khan has done fuck all recently to even be considered. In the past, obviously yes, but in a time where the UK Has double figures World champions, he's nowhere n

You asked what Khan has done in the past 7 years, I answered. You haven't even offered what Brits are higher P4P. So, if you want to get back to the original question that YOU asked, please list, with reasoning, who has better credentials than Khan? I am not interested in whether or not YOU think Khan is good or not, it goes without saying what you think. However, to make an unbiased comparison we have to know who we're judging Khan with. And Roy Jones is an awful example, he's no longer P4P because he's old, shot and hasn't fought at top level for a million years. Khan is still in his pomp, independently ranked among the best welterweights in the world (Ring Mag) and challenged one of the best fighters in the world in his very last fight.

[Alpha]

Khan shouldn't be rated at 147 anymore he hasn't fought there since May 2015. His inactivity is also a problem as of next month he will have been out over a year. With that last fight being a KO loss.

[erics44]

Miguel Francis: Antigua and Barbuda sprinter switches allegiance to Britain - BBC Sport

my dad is irish

what do you think about that?

I think it doesn't make you a Paddy anymore than my Nan being a Romany Gypsy born in Ireland makes me Irish. It's part of our heritage just like having A Jewish family is part of mine. I don't go around telling people I am a Jewish Gyspy though, unless they ask about it. I tell everyone that I am English because that is where I was born and have lived the majority of my life. I am very proud and happy to be English, not ashamed by it. Probably means you could have boxed or played sport for Denmark Norway Sweden Ireland though mate does it not, him being your old man?

i could have boxed for the irish title or played football for the republic yes

a mate of mine boxed for and won the irish light middleweight title with less irish in him than me

I am English tho, ive been to Ireland 2 or 3 times, that's it

[Primo Carnera]

What a daft thing to say. So despite Khan being born in England and living in England he apparently is not English according to you. Next you will be telling us you were born in Britain, spent your entire life in Britain but don't consider yourself British :-P and of course Lewis is British he was born and lived in London till he was 12, pretty formative years. The mental gymnastics you have to employ to suggest that all these British boxers, mainly of colour are not British is the same you are using to dismiss Khan. Funny stuff.

I didn't say Khan wasn't English, or any of the others, I said if he can qualify for English, then all the ones I mentioned could qualify for Italy. But you went off piste anyway because it was about Brit v America.
I never claimed anything about Italy or Italian boxers , you used that as a smokescreen to hide from the fact that the top 5 US fighters rank better than the top 5 Brits.
as for Lennox and his "Formative Years", surely from 12 to about 21 or 22 are "Pretty Formative Years" as well , do you not think? also , during his CANADIAN "Formative Years", he learnt to box and represented HIS COUNTRY to become an OLYMPIC CHAMPION. But no, you want to claim he's a Brit. Mental Gymnastics? Talk about the pot calling the kettle Black!!

[Primo Carnera]

@Primo Carnera - your entire reply has NOTHING to do with the original question you posed or the discussion I entered. The question was - where does Khan sit P4P in relation with other British fighters, not whether or not Khan is crap, which is all you've offered. However, i'll entertain your replies...

There's the Sound bite! You can't use the World champions he's beat to prove your point and then put "regardless of the quality or physical state they were in"

I haven't tried to prove a point, you've given me nothing to debate let alone prove. I made a statement based on fact. I qualified the statement precisely because the bare stat isn't definitive about a fighters quality/standing/abilty.

Zab - WHO DOESN'T BEAT ZAB? ANYONE WHO IS ANYONE BEAT ZAB.UNINSPIRING.
Peterson - two divison titlist, current welterweight titlist . AND LOST
Garcia - two divison titlist, current top welter.AND LOST
Diaz - former titlist. WAY PAST HIS BEST,FIGHTING AT A CAREER HIGH WEIGHT AND STILL GAVE KHAN TROUBLE
Collazo - former titlist. WHO HADNT FOUGHT ANYONE OF NOTE FOR A COUPLE YEARS, NOR SINCE
Alexander - two division titlist. ON THE SLIDE NO LONGER AT THE TOP LEVEL,BULLIED AND RUINED BY PORTER.
Algieri - former titlist. HERE'S THE THIN AIR. SO HE WON A WORLD TITLE, LOOK WHAT MANNY DID TO HIM , ATG OR NOT. AND HE FUCKING STRUGGLED AGAINST HIM.
Canelo - AND WAS BRUTALLY KO'd JUST LIKE EVERYONE THOUGHT HE WOULD.

Khan is crap which inturn makes his competiton crap. However, your reasoning is not just hypocritical it's deeply flawed.

If Zab Judah is crap - easy to beat - then what makes Tyzyu, Cotto, Mayweather etc top fighters? He had lost against all-time greats, he was still a highly ranked world-class fighter when Khan beat him regardless of how crap you believe him to be.

You're quick to mention Diaz was fighting above his optimum weight yet completely ignore that Khan was at a natural weight disadvantage against Canelo, or that he drew with top ranked Shawn Porter right before losing to Khan.

Collazo pulled the upset by knocking out Victor Ortiz right before losing to Khan, after that he gave top ranked Keith Thurman a scare before pulling yet another upset by knocking out prospect Sammy Vasquez. You sure do set the bar high if these fights are "not of any note."

"Look what Manny did to Aligeri?" Manny is one of the greatest fighters that has ever lived. On one hand you're saying Khan is crap, on the other you're comparing his winning performances with an all-time great. Doesn't make sense.

p4p isn't about what you've done in the past, if it was Roy Jones Jr. Would still be in the top 10! It's about the here and now, and Khan has done fuck all recently to even be considered. In the past, obviously yes, but in a time where the UK Has double figures World champions, he's nowhere n

You asked what Khan has done in the past 7 years, I answered. You haven't even offered what Brits are higher P4P. So, if you want to get back to the original question that YOU asked, please list, with reasoning, who has better credentials than Khan? I am not interested in whether or not YOU think Khan is good or not, it goes without saying what you think. However, to make an unbiased comparison we have to know who we're judging Khan with. And Roy Jones is an awful example, he's no longer P4P because he's old, shot and hasn't fought at top level for a million years. Khan is still in his pomp, independently ranked among the best welterweights in the world (Ring Mag) and challenged one of the best fighters in the world in his very last fight.

Fair Play Fenster , on this subject you're talking absolute shite! I'm not clever enough to break posts down into partial quotes like you , I'm not gonna bother wasting my breath answering each part because it's horseshit.
but you want me to put who is currently above him p4p, so I will.
Current Frampton - 2 weight champion and in the top 2 or 3 in either division (not 3 million years ago but now.)
Current Degale - World Champion ,Widely recognized as top 2 or 3 in his division.
Current Brook - Same as Degale
Current Joshua - Same as Degale
Current Selby - Same as Degale
Current Khan - hasn't fought a title fight in his division for years let alone win one , hasn't beaten anyone of note for years, isn't seen by anyone as being in the top 2 or 3 in his division , and as for trying to score points because he got spakoed by Canelo in a circus match up is fucking laughable. (notice I never mentioned Brook's fight with GGG for the same reason, Fairness, balance and consistency you see. )
and BTW, the reasons you give for RJJ not being included are exactly the same as Khan . Khan "still in his pomp!!" hahahahaha. please tell me you don't believe this shit you're writing.
like I said before , I'm disappointed because normally you talk so much more sense.

[Beanz]

What a daft thing to say. So despite Khan being born in England and living in England he apparently is not English according to you. Next you will be telling us you were born in Britain, spent your entire life in Britain but don't consider yourself British :-P and of course Lewis is British he was born and lived in London till he was 12, pretty formative years. The mental gymnastics you have to employ to suggest that all these British boxers, mainly of colour are not British is the same you are using to dismiss Khan. Funny stuff.

I didn't say Khan wasn't English, or any of the others, I said if he can qualify for English, then all the ones I mentioned could qualify for Italy. But you went off piste anyway because it was about Brit v America.
I never claimed anything about Italy or Italian boxers , you used that as a smokescreen to hide from the fact that the top 5 US fighters rank better than the top 5 Brits.
as for Lennox and his "Formative Years", surely from 12 to about 21 or 22 are "Pretty Formative Years" as well , do you not think? also , during his CANADIAN "Formative Years", he learnt to box and represented HIS COUNTRY to become an OLYMPIC CHAMPION. But no, you want to claim he's a Brit. Mental Gymnastics? Talk about the pot calling the kettle Black!!

I really don't care about the top five Americans versus the top five Brits nonsense because here is not only where it started ,but also where some of the most competitive contests are fought up and down the country. America is huge so you cannot compare and yet you seem very eager to paint all the Brits as blind and blinkered, when you should be proud to live in a country with such a deep boxing heritage. Khan could qualify as English because he is English being born here and living his Entire life here. What part of that is equivalent to Americans being born in America being able to qualify as Italians. Reaching mate. Would you like a spade?

Where were you born out of interest?

[Primo Carnera]

What a daft thing to say. So despite Khan being born in England and living in England he apparently is not English according to you. Next you will be telling us you were born in Britain, spent your entire life in Britain but don't consider yourself British :-P and of course Lewis is British he was born and lived in London till he was 12, pretty formative years. The mental gymnastics you have to employ to suggest that all these British boxers, mainly of colour are not British is the same you are using to dismiss Khan. Funny stuff.

I didn't say Khan wasn't English, or any of the others, I said if he can qualify for English, then all the ones I mentioned could qualify for Italy. But you went off piste anyway because it was about Brit v America.
I never claimed anything about Italy or Italian boxers , you used that as a smokescreen to hide from the fact that the top 5 US fighters rank better than the top 5 Brits.
as for Lennox and his "Formative Years", surely from 12 to about 21 or 22 are "Pretty Formative Years" as well , do you not think? also , during his CANADIAN "Formative Years", he learnt to box and represented HIS COUNTRY to become an OLYMPIC CHAMPION. But no, you want to claim he's a Brit. Mental Gymnastics? Talk about the pot calling the kettle Black!!

I really don't care about the top five Americans versus the top five Brits nonsense because here is not only where it started ,but also where some of the most competitive contests are fought up and down the country. America is huge so you cannot compare and yet you seem very eager to paint all the Brits as blind and blinkered, when you should be proud to live in a country with such a deep boxing heritage. Khan could qualify as English because he is English being born here and living his Entire life here. What part of that is equivalent to Americans being born in America being able to qualify as Italians. Reaching mate. Would you like a spade?

Where were you born out of interest?

Clueless! or you just want to move this around to your own little agenda.

"I really don't care about the top five Americans versus the top five Brits nonsense" - Ok, so why are you involved in this? because that was exactly what we were discussing.
"America is huge so you cannot compare" - Which is exactly what @powerpuncher from the American side said at the start. And he repeated it , he wasn't scoring points or being smug, he was merely replying to a British Claim from @erics44, which he's entitled to do , rightly or wrongly.
"and yet you seem very eager to paint all the Brits as blind and blinkered" - no I don't. Arrogant , yes. the whole World thinks Brits or to put it more Accurately English people are arrogant, that's pretty indisputable , and you are doing a good job of proving it.
"when you should be proud to live in a country with such a deep boxing heritage." - Again , the arrogance of telling me what I should and shouldn't feel. But for the record, if you cared to look at some of my posts, you will realize that there are some British boxers that I have praised continually and indeed argued the toss against Americans who think their guy is better and stuck up for them . Kell Brook springs to mind as an example. George Groves another, and many more.
"Khan could qualify as English because he is English being born here and living his Entire life here. " - At a risk of repeating myself, I NEVER EVER SAID KHAN WAS NOT ENGLISH!! Please tell me you understand that you understand that now?
However, regarding Lennox and his "Formative years" (I'm still pissing myself at that ) , I did say he can't be classed as British. I believe that when you nail your colours to the mast, that is what you are.
btw, I notice you never replied about Lennox because you knew you couldn't make a remotely sensible reply about that! (Although why change the habit of a lifetime?)
I also believe that if you have options as regards your Nationality (Birth, Heritage, Qualification), that you are what you feel you are more than anything else. that has priority over where you were born, you have no choice of where you are born , that's just down to circumstance.
I'm not the least bit surprised that you were able to offer me a spade, because you probably have to use it all the time!!!!

[Beanz]

You are what you feel you are? Ha! So you were born here, grew up here but don't see yourself as British? Lewis is as British and English as a cup of tea or a pint of ale then by both my and your standards. He was born in England, had said many times that he 'feels' British and fought his entire professional career as a Brit.

[Primo Carnera]

You are what you feel you are? Ha! So you were born here, grew up here but don't see yourself as British? Lewis is as British and English as a cup of tea or a pint of ale then by both my and your standards. He was born in England, had said many times that he 'feels' British and fought his entire professional career as a Brit.

Why didn't he try out for the GB Olympics team if he "felt" so British?
I was born in this country, correct.
I have dual nationality, own houses in both countries, was called up for the Italian National service, my son has represented Italy in sport, unfortunately I wasn't good enough to, otherwise I would have done.
You seem so upset and insulted that I don't "feel" English, I'm waiting for the next comment about "well if you're so Italian, why don't you fuck off over there?" Because that's what it feels like is coming.
You do make me laugh Beanz, with your little Englander attitude, yet on the off topic forums , you jump down people's throats for perceived ganging up etc. 😂😂

[Batman]

You are what you feel you are? Ha! So you were born here, grew up here but don't see yourself as British? Lewis is as British and English as a cup of tea or a pint of ale then by both my and your standards. He was born in England, had said many times that he 'feels' British and fought his entire professional career as a Brit.

Why didn't he try out for the GB Olympics team if he "felt" so British?
I was born in this country, correct.
I have dual nationality, own houses in both countries, was called up for the Italian National service, my son has represented Italy in sport, unfortunately I wasn't good enough to, otherwise I would have done.
You seem so upset and insulted that I don't "feel" English, I'm waiting for the next comment about "well if you're so Italian, why don't you fuck off over there?" Because that's what it feels like is coming.
You do make me laugh Beanz, with your little Englander attitude, yet on the off topic forums , you jump down people's throats for perceived ganging up etc. 😂😂

well why don't you fuck off back there is you are so intalian

on the 'why didn't he try out for the GB Olympics team if he 'felt' so British' point, I could be completely wrong but and this is just a guess, but could it have been a case of confidence?
you often hear of footballers playing for countries that they don't actually come from because they feel they will get more games, English players who have a wee bit of Irish in them often have to make the choice of 'shall I stick with England and run the risk of never getting picked or shall I go for Ireland where there is a much higher chance of me getting picked'

for what its worth my dad hates Lennox Lewis purely because he believes that he is Canadian.