1973 George Foreman vs 1942 Joe Louis

[Master]

Foreman was strong but limited boxer who did not know how to pace himself and was over reliant on his punch power. Ali exposed him in front of millions watching.

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Foreman was strong but limited boxer who did not know how to pace himself and was over reliant on his punch power. Ali exposed him in front of millions watching.

Agree but he blasted the living hell out of everybody else in both of his careers and people have nightmares about this guy even until today

[Denilson3.0]

The video clearly shows his whole era were novice like compared in angles/tech/fluidity/timing/defense

What you saw in the video as Joe Louis's weaknesses were actually his greatest attributes that is :

1. Patience
2. Economy Of Movement

You’re making the mistake of seeing economy of motion with sluggard footwork.

In boxing - Not all skills are pretty.

Boxing is the ultimate sport of repetition.

The more one practises the better one becomes. Boxers in the past "practised" until it was "instinctive". That's the key difference, fighters from the past did not "think" about what to do, they reacted instinctively to any offensive or defensive opportunities.

The old timers had moves that were so well ingrained through continuous fighting. There's no better way to internalise these things - that's why boxing has gone way downhill skill-wise.

I mean would Deontay Wilder have been a champ in the Joe Louis era ? Nope.

If you look into today's boxing it's astonishing how some boxers win fights just with ONE thing.

The horrible USA amateur boxing program shows that. They haven't won a gold at the Olympics since Andre Ward in 2004.

Fury just went life and death with a guy who has never boxed before. I mean if it was just about strength and punching power AJ should have easily beat Usyk - No ? Even the Klitschkos (Vitali and Wlad) looked amateurish at times. Jack Johnson would have taken Klitschko to school and made him look like the advanced amateur that he was.

Would FMJ been able to have been 50-0 if he had an Archie Moore schedule? No.

Also please leave this "modern training and conditioning" shit at the door.

Training in boxing hasn’t really changed too much over the last 100 years.

1. Jogging
2. Jumping Rope
3. Lifting Weights
4. Bag Work
5. Sparring
6. And Even Rowing Machines

All those have been around since the late 19th century. Except for that of steroids of course. There has been barely any advancement in training methods since the Joe Louis era.

they fought really dumb to alot of times standing right in front of the opposition and waiting for them to counter or to hit them, i specifically chose no names to show even those guys were way more advanced than the whole louis era

Not dumb at all.

1. A lot fighters back then were not scared to get hit and those moves require you to get hit in sparring to perfect them.
   
   Old fighters like Louis were very comfortable under fire; they didn’t turtle or freak out and weren’t worried about a touch points system. Bk in the day they had a “If it doesn't hurt, it doesn’t matter” way of thinking.
   
   
2. Louis knew that fighters inexperienced would always throw at the head when they thought they saw a target.
   
   So fighters like Louis put his head there on purpose to get the boxers to throw, make them miss and lose balance so he could counter him with an effective placed shot.

Also you gotta remember these were 15 round fights bk then and the footwork of the "Brown Bomber" was engineered for a lengthy fight, but he still could spring forward with explosiveness, and kept his defence "tight" while doing so. His style was a far more polished professional style than the top "amateur style" fighters of today.

And Louis only needed one invite, and the fight's over.

To me Joe Louis was THE perfect example of a fighter who never wasted a punch... and he hardly ever threw a punch that didn't land and never was there a pitty pat punch thrown.. every punch was meant to do damage and they all did.

Also you post the Billy Conn - Joe Louis fight (and the trouble he gave Louis) as if you're saying Billy Conn was ordinary. Conn was considered a great fighter and when greats fighters fight each other sh*t happens.

The mental pressure Louis is putting on Conn, where Conn knows that he ALWAYS has to be on his bike, can’t stand his ground and Louis is just THERE. That wears you out mentally and physically.

And it has to be stated that Louis did end up KO-ing Billy Conn and he rematched him and KO-ed him again.

My video shows exactly how Joe and his era fought.

Mike Tyson was a great fighter - Right ?

But no HW of this era moves like Mike Tyson, that style is dead.

No HWs use the peek-a-boo guard, upper body sways, dips, bows, etc. But just as it's wrong to call Tyson's style a failed style just coz it’s no longer in fashion. The same is true of the Joe Louis style and movement of boxing

Bernard Hopkins and James Toney are good examples of guys who fought in a Joe Louis, slower more methodical style.

And guess what ? Bill Miller used to teach Toney by watching old fight films of Louis. Guys like Mayweather and Toney were taught by old school trainers.

A superior athlete with good speed is enough to beat most fighters but against Hopkins, somebody who OUT THINKS you, they could be more physically gifted but Hopkins could still beat them even though he was 10 or 15 years older.

Hopkins -Trinidad is a good example - this fight was really a clinic - Hopkins knew everything that Trinidad did and he hit Trinidad everywhere even when he was taking his head down... he knew exactly and anticipated where his head would be.

I know I'm going off on a tangent here but boxing, above anything else, is a game of mental energy.

It's the ability to out-think the other guy. It's brains over brawn and athleticism every time at the elite level. The ability to feint the other guy out of position, the ability to make him do what you want him to do.

The old masters like Louis would use their mental energy and experience to out think you. That is what boxing is all about. If you were a counter-puncher they would make you lead. If you were aggressive they would make you back up. They knew where to hit you, the solar plexus, and the liver, behind the ear. The old masters, for the most part, because of their great skill and experience could out-think and out-fight today's relatively inactive boxers.

In that video, does that version of Joe look like he or anybody else would land anything on foreman or people he fought?

Joe Louis is the only HW to earn a debut year top ten ranking from The Ring Magazine.

Joe in his debut, against a solid winning record journeyman in his prime, knocked him out of the ring in the lap of the commish in the first round.

But Joe Louis is really polarising for some reason.

I think bk to what George Foreman perceptively said:

"Boxing is sort of like jazz, the better it is, the less people can appreciate it".

And I want to show you something else about Louis




Look at Joe Louis head size in comparison to Ali ? Fist size ? Thickness ?

And this was Joe Louis as a middle aged man.

In that video, does that version of Joe look like he or anybody else would land anything on foreman or people he fought?

Yes. Louis would outbox and counterpunch Foreman to death. If Ron Lyle could have Foreman stumbling around like the local drunk from one shot then so could have Louis.

The Foreman Vs Frazier match up wasn't a fight.

It was an athletic contest. Who hits harder. Who has more quick twitch muscles

You're not in a fight until you are faced with resistance until you have something to overcome (Shout out to Teddy Atlas for that line) Yes Foreman ran over guys in his prime but when he faced Ali in "The Rumble In The Jungle"

Now Foreman was in a fight. Now Foreman’s power, strength and physicality was not enough. Now he was facing a guy in Ali who was not gonna cooperate.

My point is Foreman would be in a fight against Joe Louis.

So you can jerk off to Foreman and Frazier all day but as a come-forward, action fighter Frazier was made to eat power shots. Frazier didn't fight moving backwards or moving side to side. He just went straight into Foreman. His style would never beat Foreman

Frazier energizer-bunny hopping and erratic upper body movement was GREAT against accurate fast snipers like Ali, but did not really cut it against Big George.

[Denilson3.0]

so why say Joe all day if foreman weighted the same?

It’s just my opinion Kimo-sabbe

Louis's moves were direct and purposeful and allowed him to be a very dangerous opponent.

I have always maintained that Joe Louis' efficiency set the standard for a heavyweight puncher. It's the way he was always set up to punch and...you can see that he is already setting up the second, third punch before he is even completing the first punch.

When I watch guys like Louis I almost feel as though cutting the ring down is unnecessary. When you watch this level of expertise Louis displays he is always ready to throw a punch, he never even needs to move into position to go on offence, he was always on offence.

when the issue isn't weight it's the movements.

The problem is you are more impressed by footspeed than hand speed.

Some guys have faster foot speed but slower hand speed, like Ricky Hatton or maybe AJ. Some guys have slower footspeed but faster hand speed like say Andy Ruiz.

You fail to recognize other aspects of the sport.

You talk about “movements” but today head movement is strictly categorised as a defensive move back in the day it was always used for clever baiting.

he and guys from his time look like novices compared side by side to no names Foreman fought, and in no way does anyone from that era look like they would last 1 round vs. guys in the 70s-'90s

Athletic ability alone doesn’t determine a great fighter. So yes to the untrained eye, old timers will look like a novice to some because they don't look as athletic

The thing is boxing requires a massive amount of mental strength which always leaves a huge X factor

Zab Judah looked great. Very athletic. Passed the eye test to the max. As he rose in the rankings he was seen as one of the best fighters of modern times, But against Kostya Tzyu, he backed straight up with his hands down as Tyzu kept firing at him and he was badly hurt and stopped. This is a mistake the old masters would not make but would certainly take advantage of.

Also consider then that there were a lot more fighters back in the early part of the century than there are today. It is simply beyond dispute that top level fighters nowadays have much easier careers than fighters of 50 years ago. And the path to becoming a 'world champion' is so different that the two can't even be compared.

Anyway I'm looking forward to the Joe Frazier Vs Eddie Hearn fight.



I know this is a long post but it's the only way I could get my point across.

[Denilson3.0]

@joe smith

Took me hours to write that you sonofB.

I was up till the early hours. All that work and I just checked your previous posts and realized you've been banned.



I mean I'm pretty sure you're still lurking here. But man. What did you do ? O sh*t you can't respond you've been banned (lol)

[Master]

Great posts Denilson.

[Primo Carnera]

Wait a minute! @joe smith has been banned? For what? Being a WUM?
If so, there’s one or two on here that need to watch out!
The rest of you should be banned for being daft enough to waste your time debating with the dopey fucker!

[TitoFan]

Well, let's see...

You come in new. You flood the boards with fanatical material which seems cut/pasted from post to post. You begin slinging insults en masse (remember... you're new... the leeway is slightly less). You include moderators in your insults. Rather than engage in what would normally be considered normal debate, you just regurgitate the same stuff over and over and over again.

I'm not saying those are necessarily capital offenses.
But you can usually expect the Welcome mat to be retracted at some point in time.

This place gets more than its share of spammers... so the "probationary period" can sometimes be a little short.

[Spicoli]

Well, let's see...

You come in new. You flood the boards with fanatical material which seems cut/pasted from post to post. You begin slinging insults en masse (remember... you're new... the leeway is slightly less). You include moderators in your insults. Rather than engage in what would normally be considered normal debate, you just regurgitate the same stuff over and over and over again.

I'm not saying those are necessarily capital offenses.
But you can usually expect the Welcome mat to be retracted at some point in time.

This place gets more than its share of spammers... so the "probationary period" can sometimes be a little short.

Basically, have your fun and all, repost same incoherent vid and response 10,12 times but restarting same spam fest first thing next day is just exceeding a cunty quota tbh. Troll for a reaction and you shall receive.

[TitoFan]

Well, let's see...

You come in new. You flood the boards with fanatical material which seems cut/pasted from post to post. You begin slinging insults en masse (remember... you're new... the leeway is slightly less). You include moderators in your insults. Rather than engage in what would normally be considered normal debate, you just regurgitate the same stuff over and over and over again.

I'm not saying those are necessarily capital offenses.
But you can usually expect the Welcome mat to be retracted at some point in time.

This place gets more than its share of spammers... so the "probationary period" can sometimes be a little short.

Basically, have your fun and all, repost same incoherent vid and response 10,12 times but restarting same spam fest first thing next day is just exceeding a cunty quota tbh. Troll for a reaction and you shall receive.

Ironically I'm sure he's not the only Joe Louis hater in boxing fandom. Had he gone about it differently... who knows... we're all up for healthy boxing debates.

[Spicoli]

Well, let's see...

You come in new. You flood the boards with fanatical material which seems cut/pasted from post to post. You begin slinging insults en masse (remember... you're new... the leeway is slightly less). You include moderators in your insults. Rather than engage in what would normally be considered normal debate, you just regurgitate the same stuff over and over and over again.

I'm not saying those are necessarily capital offenses.
But you can usually expect the Welcome mat to be retracted at some point in time.

This place gets more than its share of spammers... so the "probationary period" can sometimes be a little short.

Basically, have your fun and all, repost same incoherent vid and response 10,12 times but restarting same spam fest first thing next day is just exceeding a cunty quota tbh. Troll for a reaction and you shall receive.

Ironically I'm sure he's not the only Joe Louis hater in boxing fandom. Had he gone about it differently... who knows... we're all up for healthy boxing debates.

Attempts were made by more than a few

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Great posts Denilson.

Once again I accidentally hit the dislikes button on this stupid Androidand I have to agree with master that that was a great post by Denison I meant to like the post but I accidentally hit dislike

[NoSavingByTheBell]

Wait a minute! @joe smith has been banned? For what? Being a WUM?
If so, there’s one or two on here that need to watch out!
The rest of you should be banned for being daft enough to waste your time debating with the dopey fucker!

Primo is up on all these acronyms what the hell is a w u m

[NoSavingByTheBell]

And finally I have to completely disagree that Joe Louis beats George Foreman there is absolutely no way that can happen look at 42 year old George Foreman how he stood for 12 rounds against a prime a Vander Holyfield who was hitting him point blank on the chin with full Force rocking Foreman all around with 15 or 20 punch combinations...I really don't think Joe could take out a prime George foreman in that case

He might hurt him or rock him a bit but big George former will just slowly find the Mark and club him to death

Joe did not fight like Muhammad Ali in any sense so Foreman would eventually club Joe out

[Primo Carnera]

Wait a minute! @joe smith has been banned? For what? Being a WUM?
If so, there’s one or two on here that need to watch out!
The rest of you should be banned for being daft enough to waste your time debating with the dopey fucker!

Primo is up on all these acronyms what the hell is a w u m

Not really my man. “Wind up Merchant”
Are you sure you’ve never come across this before?