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Thread: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcomes?

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    Default Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcomes?

    I had a debate yesterday with @imp who had the opinion that Rosado and Matthysse did not deserve rematches. His point was cuts/eye closing are part of boxing and if they lost because of the cuts/eye closing, there is no reason to grant them rematches. Besides the fact that people would be interested in the rematches, do you agree that when the outcome of a fight is changed due to a cut or an eye closing, there is no reason for the victor to grant the loser a rematch? A win is a win.

    In this context, keep in mind that Garcia gave Morales a rematch when the fight was not as close as the Matthysse fight and that Quillin was looking to make a statement at middleweight because of the comparisons with GGG.

    By the way, sour grapes on my part over the plight of Matthysse and Rosado? Yes, perhaps.
    Last edited by Rantcatrat; 10-29-2013 at 04:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    Id say yes for Matthyse, maybe not Rosado. Matthyse-Garcia is arguably still the best fight at 140 if they rematched, the first one was excellent and I think the cut let Garcia take control for a good stretch before Matthyse came on at the end again. A rematch could still go either way for me.

    Rosado fought his heart out against Quillin but I'm a bit less interested in this rematch. The cut was unfortunate, he had kept himself in the fight and hurt Quillin a few times, but I think Quillin could only do better and is still an interesting opponent for GGG or Martinez. I'd rather see those fights happen.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    I had a debate yesterday with @imp who had the opinion that Rosado and Matthysse did not deserve rematches. His point was cuts/eye closing are part of boxing and if they lost because of the cuts/eye closing, there is no reason to grant them rematches. Besides the fact that people would be interested in the rematches, do you agree that when the outcome of a fight is changed due to a cut or an eye closing, there is no reason for the victor to grant the loser a rematch? A win is a win.

    In this context, keep in mind that Garcia gave Morales a rematch when the fight was not as close as the Matthysse fight and that Quillin was looking to make a statement at middleweight because of the comparisons with GGG.

    By the way, sour grapes on my part over the plight of Matthysse and Rosado? Yes, perhaps.

    Interesting question not sour grapes.


    I tend to agree with @imp. This is the hurt business and cuts are part of it obviously. To me its a bit of a slippery slope. Not only that but neither fight was all that close. This brings back memories of the talk after another fight between heavies where the loser on cuts was actually ahead on the cards prior to its ending. That scenario has also played out throughout history. Its part of the risk. More often then not, they allow the fighter to continue when it should be stopped. Its up to the fighter who is cut to go change the outcome at that point. Marciano was about to have his fight stopped in the second Charles fight.

    In addition there are those fighters who are cut often and many times in the same area. The opponents will of course learn of this and target that area and if they manage to open something up they will then target the cut. Certain places for example on Gatti's face had scar tissue that was about as thick as rice paper. A cut would open up if he got hit by a random hot dog bun thrown into the ring. He had a bad gash in the Ruelas fight and was behind and took it into his own hands. And even in Rosado's case, I'm pretty sure he was cut in the same spot in the 3G fight. I'd bet it opens up again.

    Cut caused by a clash of heads in a close fight sure.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    For sure, a cut from a punch should never be used as an excuse for any fight imo. It's a credit to the fighter who caused it, how else can you look at it.
    I thought Matthyse actually ran Garcia pretty close though, after thinking he might even get stopped around when the cut happened. Can't think of anyone I'd rather see Garcia fight at 140 than him again.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    For sure, a cut from a punch should never be used as an excuse for any fight imo. It's a credit to the fighter who caused it, how else can you look at it.
    I thought Matthyse actually ran Garcia pretty close though, after thinking he might even get stopped around when the cut happened. Can't think of anyone I'd rather see Garcia fight at 140 than him again.

    Agreed. I think he uses a different strategy. He went out for the big shot and before he knew it he was to far behind and then had to go for the bomb.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    I don't like these "fight til you win" ala Marquez vs. Pac-man issues. You lost, move the heck on. There are other guys out there that deserve to fight for the title and contender slot.

    The only time I can agree with a rematch is if the fight ends in a split decision or draw- and a close split decision at that. Nothing more, nothing less.

    But the way Rosado and Matthysse lost, the fights weren't even close. They clearly lost, and in the case of Rosado, was losing the fight. It's over. Move on for now.

    Now, if there is a case where they meet somewhere down the line, like how Tyson had to rematch Bruno a few years down the road because he was the #1 contender after the comeback, THEN a rematch is certainly within reason- aside from the other scenarios I have outlined.

    I didn't even agree with the Tyson/Holyfield second match that much. But because the fans wanted to see it, and Tyson was on a serious surge after a few matches, and Holyfield was still a viable contender/candidate and that a HUGE amount of money was on the line, then that's a totally different case. Then, by all means, make that money.

    But there is no big-draw or money in Rosado or Matthysse rematching. None what so ever.

    MOVE ON!! You LOST. Period.
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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    For Rosado, maybe, because despite what the judges thought, everyone else seemed to think it was a close fight that was still up for grabs at the time of the cut.

    But for me, I don't see why Matthysse deserves a rematch. He was beat convincingly, cut or no cut.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights. In Rosado's case, I'm not sure the fight shouldn't have been stopped, but a rematch is in order because it was a close fight and it appeared he was coming on. In Matthysse's case, Garcia closed his eye and it was in the rounds immediately following the closed eye, that Garcia moved ahead.

    However, in any event, for either victor, Quillin or Garcia, who are they going to fight that would be as entertaining right now? With Quillin, GGG and Martinez are with HBO and he's with Showtime, so he simply can't fight them. With Garcia, who else is there attractive for him to face at 140? Furthermore, both fights were fun. Why not do it again?

    For the people who voted no reason for a rematch with Matthyse, did they think there was no reason for a rematch with Morales?

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights. In Rosado's case, I'm not sure the fight shouldn't have been stopped, but a rematch is in order because it was a close fight and it appeared he was coming on. In Matthysse's case, Garcia closed his eye and it was in the rounds immediately following the closed eye, that Garcia moved ahead.

    However, in any event, for either victor, Quillin or Garcia, who are they going to fight that would be as entertaining right now? With Quillin, GGG and Martinez are with HBO and he's with Showtime, so he simply can't fight them. With Garcia, who else is there attractive for him to face at 140? Furthermore, both fights were fun. Why not do it again?

    For the people who voted no reason for a rematch with Matthyse, did they think there was no reason for a rematch with Morales?
    I'm not sure what the decision to fight Morales again has to do about the question specifically? One looks political and the other is physical. I'm sure Morales had a hell of a lot of influence with the Wbc.

    I'm all for a rematch but I just don't think Danny is obligated as much as I'd like to say otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights. In Rosado's case, I'm not sure the fight shouldn't have been stopped, but a rematch is in order because it was a close fight and it appeared he was coming on. In Matthysse's case, Garcia closed his eye and it was in the rounds immediately following the closed eye, that Garcia moved ahead.

    However, in any event, for either victor, Quillin or Garcia, who are they going to fight that would be as entertaining right now? With Quillin, GGG and Martinez are with HBO and he's with Showtime, so he simply can't fight them. With Garcia, who else is there attractive for him to face at 140? Furthermore, both fights were fun. Why not do it again?
    Agreed! My impression at the was that Quillin got lucky with that stoppage. I'm not saying he was going to lose but Rosado was hunting him down. Rosado was only going to push harder in the final rounds especially with the cut. I'd like to see if Quillin can learn from the last fight. I'd like to see the adjustments he makes to deal with Rosado in a rematch. They both know that Quillin was unable to hurt Rosado...what will his new strategy be? How will Rosado change his strategy knowing Quillin was doing all he could to keep away?

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Rantcatrat View Post
    I tend to think in both cases that cut/eye closing changed the outcomes of the fights.
    What exactly did you see in that fight that made you think Matthysse would have won?

    I thought Garcia proved that not only could he outbox Matthysse, but he could stand up to his power. Matthysse hit Garcia with some shots that IMO would have knocked out 95% of the JR WW division, but Garcia took them like a champ.

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    I would love to see garcia and matthysee rematch but eventually give em a few fights in between, its not as if the first one was a one sided beat down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    For sure, a cut from a punch should never be used as an excuse for any fight imo. It's a credit to the fighter who caused it, how else can you look at it.
    I thought Matthyse actually ran Garcia pretty close though, after thinking he might even get stopped around when the cut happened. Can't think of anyone I'd rather see Garcia fight at 140 than him again.
    I don't really agree with this. The punches that cause most bad cut are grazing blows that aren't hurtful and they just slice you open. Its not blind luck as it's boxing but it's not what a guy is trying to do when he throws a punch. I think they both deserve rematches, Rosado more so. However have very little interest in a rematch, mainly cz Rosado can't win. Did u see those scorecards?

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    I'd say no in either case but with different aspects to the match and what it was on the bigger landscape. Matthysse v Garcia was two of the very best in division going in and determined a top dog. I think the eye had as much to do with the result as did Matthysse inability to establish a early body attack and being too conservative and Garcia keeping his head seriously level and executing a game plan. The eye was a casualty of conflict and kudos to Garcia for being the source and then exploiting it. But..on a whole I can see a rematch on places in division, name and credential. Aka..moola! Do I need it to be satisfied as a fan? No.

    Of the two I hate Rosados scenario more because NO one wants to see a fight stopped on a cut. But he was brought in to frankly be a showcase and measuring stick, not a top player to Champions. He fought his ass off but I don't buy the inference that he was pulling away or in the verge on an upset. Same with Garcia, Quillin was finding openings as Rosado was getting wider in 8,9 and busted open as he's done in more than a few fights. I don't see a need for a rematch or one being considered. It was a good fight and will serve both but promotion, fighter wise a rematch would in a way be a step sideways for Quillin. Bigger fish to fry and ultimately I don't see the outcome any different. This wasn't a shady cut stoppage and it was as clear as they come. Rosado will again ride it into a decent opponent type fight and payday while Quillin apparently is heading for an explosive GBP special with a Danny Jacobs?!
    Last edited by Spicoli; 10-29-2013 at 09:56 PM.

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    Default Re: Do Matthysse & Rosado Deserve Rematches Due to the Effect the Eye/Cuts on Outcome

    Garcia would have won anyway he was in control. Mattysse was raw and predictable.
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