Keeping the elbow down

[mat422]

Sort of a question plus observation I have made regarding keeping the elbow down during a right straight. Ok, so we all know flaring out the elbow is horrible technique for a punch, but I would like to point out that keeping the elbow down too much can also lead to tension in the bicep during a punch. So what I noticed is this.

When I stand up and let my arms dangle loosely at my sides I notice my elbows don't point directly behind me. They kind of point diagonally behind me. So to me this is the most relaxed position my arms can be in. I'm not sure about anybody else, so this is more of an observation I have made for myself.

Anyway the key to a good punch is relaxation, so I figured instead of trying to keep the elbow down while punching, why not just allow it to be in it's most natural position? I noticed I could get my hips behind the punch a lot better and my punches were more whip like.

I'm just wondering how much do you guys actually keep that elbow down? And does it feel natural to you?

[donnydarkoIRL]

The tension in the bicep occurs as the bicep acts as a decellerator to the punch

I never keep the elbow down, it results in hyperextension, an injury I've suffered from more than once accidentally.

Rotation is the key imo.

[badr_hari]

I used to make this mistake (and still find myself doing this when tired on the heavy bag, not on the mitts or when shadowboxing), moving slightly the elbow diagonally to my right when throwing the straight right hand. If your punching technique is perfect and you still have this problem than It is caused because of 2 reasons: TURNING THE SHOT (try throw it with a vertical fist - your elbow is naturally straight or down as you said) and throwing the shot from a SHORTER range (you'll feel at first like your going to injure your elbow if you throw it straight across at a shorter distance).
I am not saying don't turn your shot and don't throw it from shorter range. Its just VERY HARD to do it with resistance on the heavybag. IMO Roach is right when he says the bag is more for hooks n uppercuts.

In a late clip of Dereck Chisora on the heavybag i saw him flaring out the elbow on the straight right. Other fighters on the bag do it too, its a common mistake that destroys the punch and loses its punching power. There is probably a reason we don't see many straight right KO's lately.

[WayneFlint]

Matt if you get used to throwing like this its going to be a struggle to bring your hands directly back to the chin after a shot, they'll end up circling down and under the chin on the way back, yes its alot more relaxed this way you described but if you put your elbows infront of your abs it'll bring your hands upto your chin, this is where the arms should rest, its best your elbow starts and finishes here before and after each shot to keep them tight shots and the gloves traveling in as straight a line as possible from the chin to the target and back to the chin.

Good post badr hari, i agree if you flare the elbow theres so many bad things im not sure where to start,ill start with power.. it greatley dicreases power of a straight shot due to force escaping through the elbow (because theres better ways to utilize your elbow placement throughout a strike in order to use the strongest muscles avalable to support the strike), same thing goes for the wrist, you put the weaker muscles of the forearm in control of supporting the wrist for the impact, rolling the wrist will be common, thats 2 joints power is escaping from just in the arm before you even look at the rest.. not looking good because after the arm is where it starts to get a bit complicated in terms of maintaining good bone allignment throughout the rest of the skeletal structure, so if the arm isnt right you can bet there will be problems elsewere too, bone allignment in my eyes is the key to good, finely tuned technique, when mastered not only are the strongest available muscles being used to their optimum for each strike but so are the bones for better economy. now thats what i call mastery of a technique, once youve got past figuring the trigger muscles and using joints properly so your not fighting antagonists or bones to then start developing technique further as to then involve the bones to their optimum via good allignment, yet this must all be done without losing mobility, through maintaining good balance and optimizing footwork, now that is good technique.

Now for speed and economy of movement purposes, with flaring as the punches arent travelling as direct as they could your losing speed and also wasting energy.

Injuries, your prone to injuries in the shoulder at times because the elbow is traveling out in one direction and then its left upto the shoulder to rip it back in almost the opposite direction back towards the target at the last moments leading upto impact in a way that the delicate shoulder isnt idealy used, the shoulders are complex and there are a lot more hardier muscle groups that can be better taking these types of strains that occur during strikes, this is just my take on the flaring elbow topic im not saying im right but as i think i understand technique so far, in my opinion, its just a very, very bad habit, 1 that im actually lucky enough to have myself, mainly during shadow boxing with the straight right lol thats what years of practicing shoddy TaeKwonDo punching technique gets you, the most annoying bad habits to keep ontop of.

[mat422]

I see. Now a lot of people say flaring the elbow is bad and leads to loss of power. I notice a lot of hard punchers Hearns, Shavers, McClellan, Duran all tend to flare that elbow when they punch. Now if they threw tighter straighter punches do you think their power would improve? They literally THROW their punches like their hands are made of rock. I realize it's probably not a good idea to compare a pro boxers punch to the fundamentals, but I wonder if they punched tighter would it actually reduce power for them or improve it?

[nikola_ganchev]

If you flare the elbows and relax your hands this means that the hands are going after the body when you throw punches. You fill them more like a whip. For me to punch that way is much easier. I use only the big muscles, but the problem for me is the speed and the ACCURACY. When you deliver the shot that way you must first turn your body than the hand goes which is slow. You taletell the punch and the target will be long gone. Second can you punch in the exact point that you wish that way? I can't. And from what i have seen Shavers flayers them only to be sure that the punch is landing correctly.

[Scrap]

Try this its a good way of correcting, notice before and after, its all down to feel

[southpawwolves]

Scrap I can see on the second part of the video he has some kind of resistance band around him, is it from his hands under his arms around his back to his other hand? Would like to try this myself.

[Scrap]

It is, and works.

[greynotsoold]

I've always thought that raising the elbow does two things: breaks the line of the body as it rotates into the punch, and tips off your opponent. Raising the elbow to throw a straight right looks like 'aiming' the punch- you can see it coming.

[God.in.my.corner]

So the band goes around the wrist and around the ribs on the inside of each arm? Not around the elbow, correct?

And what around hooks with the bands, or is it for mostly straight shots?

Sorry, how to see in the video.

[Scrap]

It goes round the thumb, thats the secret of why it works

[Youngblood]

I think there is a fine between between keeping the elbow tucked in nicely for protection, and getting it up in the air enough for proper rotation on a cross. I see a lot of crosses that look like baseball throws because of it being too low on the follow through. It's an ugly thing to witness, kinda looks like the flight of a wounded bird. And then on the other hand, is the high elbow punches, which though not quite as ugly to witness, is an invitation to getting your liver smashed in.

[WayneFlint]

If the elbow has close to no wasted movement then its much harder to see in my opinion, the glove just seems to get bigger as it gets closer, range is a terrible thing to judge via eyesight so this way of punching takes advantage of that weakness, if they flare the elbow then your getting a better tell, youll see the elbow pop round the side of the glove everytime a straight comes your eyes use what scientists are calling ''blind sight'' to quickly identify a sharp movement or potential hazard and react to it, you would use it say when driving along in the car having a disscussion with a friend not paying much attention to the road, then a woman at the side of the road looks like she may cross suddenly, this quickly draws your attention from the conversation back to the road, animals use it to avoid becoming pray. a house fly is always using blind sight, its eyes are evolved in that way, it gets more frames per second than humans but with much less detail in each frame, this is what enables them to fly around without hitting things but then when they need the detail to notice a window between them and where they want to be theyre hopeless, we are the opposite of fly's but still have and use blind sight, its just not as good as the fly's. when punches come if your eyes only warning is as small a detail as somthing getting slightly bigger we have a hard time processing that detail in a short enough amount of time to actually 'notice' it, but a sharp movement or change in appearance will trigger your blind sight and you will 'see' the punch much quicker, and react.

all types of jabs are useful, good bio mechanics of a punch all depends on the situation and where the target is in relation to you. i somtimes jab with a high elbow every so often if i need to stop an overhand right being thrown as much or if i i want them to slip inside ill throw it high and to the left, or ill jab parallel to the shoulder if i want him to parry it, if hes just bending his knees to slip under a shot then ill throw one low to the chest, if i want him to catch the jab ill throw it to the opposite side of the heart so i can lure the stop and sneak in and throw a left hook off feinting the jab, if i want him to counter my jab with a jab then i wont step in with the back foot for a few or ill step in then right back out to minimize the chances of being countered with heavy crosses or hooks, shadow boxing or working a bag throwing these punches would likely get you pulled up by most coaches, but these are shots you will be using while fighting, there will be situations when these shots are bio mechanically the best option due to the location of the desired target, obviously the basics must be mastered first, then you can go on to the variations, just be careful and remember a punch variation for one situation is also a bad habit for another. its important to have good concious levels while trying to fight this way because in time as muscle memory takes over its conciousness and how much youve got that dictates to the body that there is a difference between each, it seems boxing is largley about phsyco dynamics, who can learn to toy and tweak with the others more effectively and quicker, how quickly you can feel out the phsyco dynamics of the other fighter.

[Cruiser]

Hi Mat, I have my elbows flaring out sometimes too, but I really like the video by Scrap on this thread....he has his elbows in the perfect position after he throws his punches... watch his video, I like how his elbows are totally covering his ribcage.... he would be very difficult to get good clean body shots on because he looks like he has long arms. Advice, keep the elbows in and protect your torso or you'll get punished with alot of body shots. Shake out your arms to relieve the stress in your biceps if their tensing up. Cruiser