Why Manny can't beat Floyd

[Taeth]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

[miron_lang]

THREAD TILE like MANNY CANT BEAT <Put any name here> MUST BE PROHIBITED in these forums...



Taeth


No disrespect mate but the thread title sounds stupid really. I mean cmon ....

[Taeth]

Just like when I said Manny would beat Cotto or Mosley, and that it wasn't because Oscar was old or Hatton was tailor made that Manny beat them also because he was a great fighter?

Manny is a great fighter, but Floyd is better, and I will be saying this now and until I go to the fight. Floyd can't lose this fight unless he has an injury. Pacquiao is way too tailor made for him. Manny gets caught out of position, the way he throws punches offensively will be relatively easy for Mayweather to block, and Manny isn't super great at throwing punches of his back foot.

I just don't get why people don't see how this fight likely won't even be that competitive. Floyd has all the right tools to handle Pacquiao.

[miron_lang]

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

One shot. And the complexion of the game can turn in pac's favor. Work rate mate. Floyd can run. but can he run for 12 rounds?

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

Are you sure about this? Floyd coming forward? againts Pacquiao? You must be thinking of someone else

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches

He had success because because Manny stood there and tested the left hooks and uppecuts. For Psy purposes if i may state

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

uLOL that wont happen hahahha

Back him up at your own risk - Larry Merchant

[fan johnny]

Truth is only few really knew how Pacquiao would do against Dela Hoya. No one really new what would happen when Pacquiao faced Hatton. And not even Roach knew Pacuqiao could walk through Cotto's punches in the later rounds the way Hatton walked through Malignaggi's. And the Truth is no one knows what will happen if Pacquiao faces Mayweather.

Maywether looked impressive against JMM and a lesser fighter like Chris John beat him too. Mayweather looked beatable against Dela Hoya winning by a split decision.

I'd like to see Mayweather try to crowd Pacquiao. I don't think it works. I don't see Mayweather having the courage to go toe to toe because Mayweather doesn't like getting hit. Mayweather doesn't have the punching power of Cotto. Mayweather would do nothing but run. He won't be interested in making a fight of it. He'll only want to box from the outside.

If they have the same speed they will both get hit. Pacquiao's speed shows up in the later rounds once his opponent starts slowing down. Pacquiao got hit against Cotto more because the fool was testing Cotto's power.

[miron_lang]

Just like when I said Manny would beat Cotto or Mosley, and that it wasn't because Oscar was old or Hatton was tailor made that Manny beat them also because he was a great fighter?

Manny is a great fighter, but Floyd is better, and I will be saying this now and until I go to the fight. Floyd can't lose this fight unless he has an injury. Pacquiao is way too tailor made for him. Manny gets caught out of position, the way he throws punches offensively will be relatively easy for Mayweather to block, and Manny isn't super great at throwing punches of his back foot.

Pacquiao comes up new everytime up.

Roach lays down the plan
Pac doesnt worry about the promotion or the plan. he executes it.


Whatever technical flaws or shortcoming that pac may have againts Floyd ( You must be a 12 yr old moron if you think this fight is competitive just 5 yrs ago ) Roach will have something to fix it uo en route to a great fight plan.


Dont write Pacquiao off. Its a fair warning

[Taeth]

Wow you guys haven't watched Floyd at all, he always backs up southpaws with both hands up high. I thought Manny should have used a lot more movement against Cotto, but he wanted to prove a point, but regardless Pacquiao can be backed up relatively easily because he moves in and out, he isn't a guy who just comes forward, but if you can get him consistently moving back thats where he isn't as good. The fight against Hatton doesn't count because obviously a heavy hitter with speed would pick Hatton apart because he's so open when he comes in.

The problem is when you watch the Marquez fight Manny wasn't the offensively killer he was in later fights, and thats because Marquez didn't let him. Marquez was able to control the ring and even was more success leading in with the cross than Pacquiao was. Now put Mayweather in Marquez's shoes, a guy who blatantly showed he's bigger, faster, and stronger and better than Marquez, and Manny won't be able to get started.

The best way to beat a Ferrari in a race is to never let the key go into the ignition, and Mayweather wouldn't let Manny find his rhythm. Floyd will come forwad behind a high guard, and he will land right hand after right hand, and Manny will occasionally flurry, but Mayweather will either stand there and block the majority of them or move back quickly and stay out of Manny's range, then he will go right back to walking Manny down.

If Mayweather does choose to move and box which he doesn't do against southpaws, Manny is wide open when he moves in, and Mayweather will land counter right hands all night long, and Manny won't be able to even fight his range, but thats not how Mayweather will fight Manny.

[Dench]

Good thing you point out that Pacman can absorb the power of a welterweight. I guess Mayweather lacks power, and it is true that Floyd doesnt need to brutally hurt pacman in order to win. Its not his style anyway, and he wont engage in an action-packed exchanges coz he knows Manny can shoot the lights out of him. He doesnt want to gamble, and he hates it. He wants to keep it safe, and the safest way to win against someone like pacman is to run away and jab constantly. That my be enough to outpoint Pacman.

Second, I think Mayweather will not come forward against this particular south paw. He will back off every time and keeps his distance. Besides, he has that advantage on reach against Pacman. He will keep his distance, back pedaling while trowing some jabs. Right cross should be used rarely, that punch will open up his right chin and thus inviting the devastating left hand of pacman. He dont want to end up like Hatton, Im sure.

Third, Speed is at the same level, but I can see Mayweather being more hittable than Pacman. But all in all I see speed will play a factor in the later rounds. The one who has more gas will eventually have the edge in speed.

Fourth, both have holes, Floyd has been tagged by Judah several times, Hatton and dela hoya did a little off but were able to land some clean blows to him as well. Pacman has the same problems. The thing here is how would these two fighters handle the punch. The question is can pacman handle Floyd's punch, and if Floyd can handle Pacman's punch?


My Conclusion:

Floyd will run around. Manny will chase him and invite him to fight like a P4P king, or at least to fight like a man. Floyd will be very slippery. Dancing away, and hitting Pacman with bitch slaps that doesnt hurt at all. Pacman will get frustrated and would probably quit on his stool laughing.

So there you go folks. A great night for boxing.

[Taeth]

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

One shot. And the complexion of the game can turn in pac's favor. Work rate mate. Floyd can run. but can he run for 12 rounds?

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

Are you sure about this? Floyd coming forward? againts Pacquiao? You must be thinking of someone else

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches

He had success because because Manny stood there and tested the left hooks and uppecuts. For Psy purposes if i may state

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

uLOL that wont happen hahahha

Back him up at your own risk - Larry Merchant

1. Mayweather has a way better chin than Hatton or Cotto and he's 10x harder to hit cleanly.

2. Watch Mayweather any other southpaw.

3. Pacquiao didn't stand there against Marquez, who hit him continually with ease. That same Marquez is slower, smaller, and less accurate than Mayweather as was painfully evident in their fight.

4. Larry Merchant is a fucking idiot. When Cotto was coming forward and staying cautious he was beating Manny, when he opened up tried to trade, he was getting beaten up by Manny.

[miron_lang]

Wow you guys haven't watched Floyd at all, he always backs up southpaws with both hands up high. I thought Manny should have used a lot more movement against Cotto, but he wanted to prove a point, but regardless Pacquiao can be backed up relatively easily because he moves in and out, he isn't a guy who just comes forward, but if you can get him consistently moving back thats where he isn't as good. The fight against Hatton doesn't count because obviously a heavy hitter with speed would pick Hatton apart because he's so open when he comes in.

The problem is when you watch the Marquez fight Manny wasn't the offensively killer he was in later fights, and thats because Marquez didn't let him. Marquez was able to control the ring and even was more success leading in with the cross than Pacquiao was. Now put Mayweather in Marquez's shoes, a guy who blatantly showed he's bigger, faster, and stronger and better than Marquez, and Manny won't be able to get started.

The best way to beat a Ferrari in a race is to never let the key go into the ignition, and Mayweather wouldn't let Manny find his rhythm. Floyd will come forwad behind a high guard, and he will land right hand after right hand, and Manny will occasionally flurry, but Mayweather will either stand there and block the majority of them or move back quickly and stay out of Manny's range, then he will go right back to walking Manny down.

If Mayweather does choose to move and box which he doesn't do against southpaws, Manny is wide open when he moves in, and Mayweather will land counter right hands all night long, and Manny won't be able to even fight his range, but thats not how Mayweather will fight Manny.

You realize Backing Pacquiao up literally means Floyd will be there in front on him right?

That would be a good strategy againts the version that fought Morales the 1st time (1st fight above 126). But againts this 30 yr old version? Fuck no way. PAC will overwhelm him. Stamina is Pac's under rated friend and will serve him well. Pac has the power of a welterweight, Floyd will have a taste consistently en route to a UD loss or a TKO loss. MO of the fight at least.

I really hope Floyd execute that plan.

[Taeth]

Backing Manny up is the best way to stop him from throwing punches. Marquez stood right in front of this version of Manny and when he started landing punches, Manny stopped throwing.

Manny has the power of a welterweight sure, but Mayweather has tasted the power of Oscar at 154 and easily handled it.

Stamina is the friend of both Manny and Mayweather. Both of them train harder than anyone else in the sport and they both have the best stamina in the sport, but I saw Manny getting tired against Cotto and Marquez in their fights, when have we seen Floyd get tired? His style conserves energy.

The kind of pressure that bother Mayweather is the kind Cotto throws at you, Mayweather loves when you punch because then he knows what you are going to do. Its when a guy is reserved and wait to get really close before throwing punches is when it bothers Floyd, and that isn't Manny, and trying to overwhelm Floyd how he throws punches will have him eating counters all night.

The thing is that Pacquiao is great at going backwards when he is fast enough to move out of his opponents range then come forward again, but Mayweather can match his footspeed and that means when Pacquiao tries to change direction to move forward Mayweather will be catching him with punches, thats what Marquez did so effectively. Even though it might look sort of fluid there is distinctive shifts in direction when Manny moves, and you can time him, its just 98% of the boxers are too slow to do it.

[miron_lang]

1. Mayweather has a way better chin than Hatton or Cotto and he's 10x harder to hit cleanly.

2. Watch Mayweather any other southpaw.

3. Pacquiao didn't stand there against Marquez, who hit him continually with ease. That same Marquez is slower, smaller, and less accurate than Mayweather as was painfully evident in their fight.

4. Larry Merchant is a fucking idiot. When Cotto was coming forward and staying cautious he was beating Manny, when he opened up tried to trade, he was getting beaten up by Manny.

1. Are you sure on How floyd will react after Manny hit him? My guest same as the others. Whats your guess?

2. Ive watched it. Did he back JUdah up the entire fight? Did Zab had early success?

3. Pacquiao didnt stand there he seek him. JMM waited and had some moments.

Just stating facts : JMM-PAC 2 @130 Floyd-JMM @144 Floyd came at 146. Comparing these 2 fights is definately irrelevant.

4. No he's not. He's getting paid doing what we're doing for free (Discussing boxing). I repeat Manny let cotto hit him to test his power and psy him up.

[hardcore_crash]

4. No he's not. He's getting paid doing what we're doing for free (Discussing boxing). I repeat Manny let cotto hit him to test his power and psy him up.

Lol, you guys are acting like if Manny only got hit when he wanted to.

[miron_lang]

4. No he's not. He's getting paid doing what we're doing for free (Discussing boxing). I repeat Manny let cotto hit him to test his power and psy him up.

Lol, you guys are acting like if Manny only got hit when he wanted to.

lol

thats not it. he didnt need half the punishment he took.

Im just saying Manny tried something else which allows cotto to do his thing.

I got this idea from pac himself in an interview. he said 3 things

1. He stood there to test the power of a welterweight
2. He pretended that it didnt bother him but he got hurt a few times
3. He wants to prove that he's stronger (I dont know why but he likes to do that)

[blegit]

I am a Pac fan but I don't want to fool myself out knowing what I see. Outside of a lucky shot I can not figure out how Pac can beat PBF. Hate him or not, PBF is not going to be a good style for Pac. I know Roach is a genius trainer but in 2 fights with Marquez he still never figured him out. Imagine trying to figure out the toughest puzzle in all of boxing on your first shot.