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Thread: Utah giving homes to the homeless

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    Default Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Thought this was an interesting idea. Utah has done the math that the cost of jail and ER exceeds the cost of providing a home and a social worker.
    This is their solution to the problem of homelessness.

    Housing Works

    Does this lead to an increased likelyhood of people abusing the system?
    Is this a path to ending homelessness in a definitive way?
    Is it sustainable?
    Does it actually save the state money?

    Personally, I am interested to see how this experiment plays out.
    For every story told that divides us, I believe there are a thousand untold that unite us.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    The large majority of homeless have mental issues, are the social workers going to help them with their meds?

    Who will maintain the properties?

    Who pays for this to happen? The banks? The taxpayers?
    "Drown in a vat of whiskey.....death where is thy sting?" - W.C. Fields.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    The guidelines say very little about job training or educational courses. You cannot house people like its a pet boarding facility but I see an alternative in skill requirements and possibly a streamline to the homeless into a workforce of sometime. Just as the people who have a routine of the 9-5 grind, a learned practiced behavior, homelessness is a routine also. It's a drastic reversal in day to day living to be handed a new surrounding. People condition themselves accordingly and need to be willing to change as with anything. Or simple existing in the case of homeless. Homelessness is no longer a stereotype of nutty unshaven man trying to squeegee your windows. It's families, generational and in the hardest circumstance a family member who refuses to get help and course correct. It's hard man.
    Last edited by Spicoli; 01-21-2014 at 05:58 PM.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Quote Originally Posted by El Kabong View Post
    The large majority of homeless have mental issues, are the social workers going to help them with their meds?
    I don't know

    Who will maintain the properties?
    I don't know

    Who pays for this to happen? The banks? The taxpayers?
    The taxpayers of Utah and by donation.
    I don't know the answers. Except for it's paid for by the taxpayers of Utah, as mentioned in the article, their model shows the state spends more on incarcerating and doing ER treatment than they would spend on Board and a social worker.

    As I said, I am interested to see how this works out. One thing that is interesting is that they are leaving it up to the individual cities on how to administer their programs.
    Last edited by killersheep; 01-21-2014 at 07:03 PM.
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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Quote Originally Posted by Spicoli View Post
    The guidelines say very little about job training or educational courses. You cannot house people like its a pet boarding facility but I see an alternative in skill requirements and possibly a streamline to the homeless into a workforce of sometime. Just as the people who have a routine of the 9-5 grind, a learned practiced behavior, homelessness is a routine also. It's a drastic reversal in day to day living to be handed a new surrounding. People condition themselves accordingly and need to be willing to change as with anything. Or simple existing in the case of homeless. Homelessness is no longer a stereotype of nutty unshaven man trying to squeegee your windows. It's families, generational and in the hardest circumstance a family member who refuses to get help and course correct. It's hard man.
    I applaud Utah for trying this, regardless if it works or not we will learn something from it.
    There is indeed an issue with generational homelessness and if the means aren't there, the cycle will never be broken.
    For every story told that divides us, I believe there are a thousand untold that unite us.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Hopefully this works and other states actually follow suit. Unfortunately a lot of states seem to be going in the other direction :


    It works like this: say you get a $200 speeding ticket, and you don't have the money to pay it. You are placed on probation, and for a monthly supervisory fee you can pay the fine off in instalments over the course of your probation term. The devil, as ever, is in the details, as a great Sunday story from the Atlanta Journal Constitution makes clear. Those supervisory fees vary markedly: in Cobb County, for instance, just north of Atlanta, the government charges a $22 monthly fee. Private companies charge $39, and often add extra costs on top of that to cover drug testing, electronic monitoring and even classes they decide offenders need. Fees often rise and even multiply when probationers cannot pay—and remember, these are people, for the most part, who could not come up with a hundred bucks and change to pay the initial fee; you have to expect they'll have some trouble paying.
    Even worse, people who fail to pay the fines imposed by these private companies can find warrants for their arrests sworn out and the period of their probation extended. I spoke with an attorney for a couple in Alabama who say they were threatened with Tasers and the removal of their children if they did not pay the company what they owed. In 2012 a court found that the fees levied by private-probation companies in Harpersville, Alabama, could turn a $200 fine and a year's probation into $2,100 in fees and fines stretched over 41 months.


    Private probation: A judicially sanctioned extortion racket | The Economist



    Here's Washington DC :


    On the day Bennie Coleman lost his house, the day armed U.S. marshals came to his door and ordered him off the property, he slumped in a folding chair across the street and watched the vestiges of his 76 years hauled to the curb.
    Movers carted out his easy chair, his clothes, his television. Next came the things that were closest to his heart: his Marine Corps medals and photographs of his dead wife, Martha. The duplex in Northeast Washington that Coleman bought with cash two decades earlier was emptied and shuttered. By sundown, he had nowhere to go.


    All because he didn’t pay a $134 property tax bill




    The retired Marine sergeant lost his house on that summer day two years ago through a tax lien sale — an obscure program run by D.C. government that enlists private investors to help the city recover unpaid taxes.................





    Left with nothing | The Washington Post

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing View Post
    Hopefully this works and other states actually follow suit. Unfortunately a lot of states seem to be going in the other direction :


    It works like this: say you get a $200 speeding ticket, and you don't have the money to pay it. You are placed on probation, and for a monthly supervisory fee you can pay the fine off in instalments over the course of your probation term. The devil, as ever, is in the details, as a great Sunday story from the Atlanta Journal Constitution makes clear. Those supervisory fees vary markedly: in Cobb County, for instance, just north of Atlanta, the government charges a $22 monthly fee. Private companies charge $39, and often add extra costs on top of that to cover drug testing, electronic monitoring and even classes they decide offenders need. Fees often rise and even multiply when probationers cannot pay—and remember, these are people, for the most part, who could not come up with a hundred bucks and change to pay the initial fee; you have to expect they'll have some trouble paying.
    Even worse, people who fail to pay the fines imposed by these private companies can find warrants for their arrests sworn out and the period of their probation extended. I spoke with an attorney for a couple in Alabama who say they were threatened with Tasers and the removal of their children if they did not pay the company what they owed. In 2012 a court found that the fees levied by private-probation companies in Harpersville, Alabama, could turn a $200 fine and a year's probation into $2,100 in fees and fines stretched over 41 months.


    Private probation: A judicially sanctioned extortion racket | The Economist



    Here's Washington DC :


    On the day Bennie Coleman lost his house, the day armed U.S. marshals came to his door and ordered him off the property, he slumped in a folding chair across the street and watched the vestiges of his 76 years hauled to the curb.
    Movers carted out his easy chair, his clothes, his television. Next came the things that were closest to his heart: his Marine Corps medals and photographs of his dead wife, Martha. The duplex in Northeast Washington that Coleman bought with cash two decades earlier was emptied and shuttered. By sundown, he had nowhere to go.


    All because he didn’t pay a $134 property tax bill




    The retired Marine sergeant lost his house on that summer day two years ago through a tax lien sale — an obscure program run by D.C. government that enlists private investors to help the city recover unpaid taxes.................





    Left with nothing | The Washington Post
    The Tom Brower approach
    For every story told that divides us, I believe there are a thousand untold that unite us.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    I am not sure if you saw this but I posted it in the Romanian Immigrant thread about a week ago @killersheep

    European Citizens' Initiative for an Unconditional Basic Income (UBI) | #basicincome


    The link below explains the reasoning. WHY WE SHOULD GIVE FREE MONEY TO EVERYONE

    https://decorrespondent.nl/541/why-w...98745-cb9fbb39
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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Bad idea.. it wont be long before these bums turn those homes into crackhouses..

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Quote Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita View Post
    Bad idea.. it wont be long before these bums turn those homes into crackhouses..
    Stop selling it then
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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Maybe this idea has a base in the Mormon concept of tithing? Curious thing...Utah is the leader is respecting gun rights and the concept of liberty. They are also consistently in the top 3 business friendly states in the union, are among the leaders in job growth, among the leaders in the healthiest states...Provo and Salt Lake City are always in the Top 10 places to live. While Provo is very conservative, SLC has an annual gay pride march that has been going on for 25 years and draws thousands of people.
    I think that Utah can make this work; it is obviously a well run state.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Be a good move to make the houses solid concrete walls or solid brick with solid plaster rendered on all on top of a concrete slab floor with tiled floors throughout, the damage is minimum that you can do to one of those.
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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Oh well this jerk wouldnt agree with the plans thats for sure. ..

    I dont who he is, but he is now in the running for the leader of the unpopularity party.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    Oh my at first look around ,I find this on him, he is an embarrassment isnt he!

    I'd love to play poker against this fool, he is all in every time!

    I dont think he knows what he comes over like to normal thinking people, as he is so politically bent and one eyed that he cant see that some issues are beyond political side taking.

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    Default Re: Utah giving homes to the homeless

    I work in probation and we deal with homeless offenders and it is true many have issues of mental health and substance misuse. They cannot sustain a tenancy because they do not have the experience of budget management and skills for life. They get support to maintain their tenancy which is more often shared or single bedrooms. Most do not make it to a sustained independent living but some do.
    Do not let success go to your head and do not let failure get to your heart.

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