Mythical lightweight matchup

[frasd]

I have seen arguments in posts and magazines as to mythical matchups in terms of Duran vs Mayweather at lightweight. What about Pac vs Duran at that weight? I know Pac had great wins at a couple of versions of featherweight and then welterweight. (I think he only fought Diaz at Light but could be wrong)
What would that fight look like and who would win?
I am a big Duran fan and thinks he beats Floyd and Pac at that weight but it might be my own bias as I am old and like I said a big fan of Duran.
I am one of the few that like both Floyd and Pac. I think they are both all time greats. I personally think Floyd wins if they fight but every time I have bet against Pac I have lost. But that is a separate conversation already overdone. Just wondering why I never saw the scenario touched on as I have seen much stranger. Kimbo vs Tyson for instance.

[El Kabong]

It's hard to comment truthfully on Pac vs Floyd without haters from one side or another getting their feelings hurt about it.


Pac-Duran at lightweight...well Roberto Duran is considered the greatest lightweight in the world for a reason. I wonder about the power Pac has, and the handspeed, but I think at lightweight Duran would handle Manny he was just too technically sound.

[frasd]

It's hard to comment truthfully on Pac vs Floyd without haters from one side or another getting their feelings hurt about it.


Pac-Duran at lightweight...well Roberto Duran is considered the greatest lightweight in the world for a reason. I wonder about the power Pac has, and the handspeed, but I think at lightweight Duran would handle Manny he was just too technically sound.

I agree re the outcome. But think it would be fun to watch. Plus they both kinda look like the same guy of different ethnicities. Or maybe it is just the goatee.


I shouldn't have mentioned Floyd vs Pac as that argument may take over what I was initially asking and can lead to nothing good.

[Beanz]

Good thread.

FMJ v Benny Leonard would be a technical chess match. Marmite fight people will either love or hate it, depending on preference and taste.

Floyd narrowly loses on points or knocks Benny out.

Henry Armstrong v Duran. Ha! barnstormer . Don't want to make out that Roberto is some unstoppable God of war but at lightweight I think he gives most anybody problems. Duran TKO late.

Buchanan v Burns. Battle of the Tartan. Early night for Ricky I'm afraid.

Buchanan wins by KO in 4th round

[Bill Paxtom]

Ike Williams vs. Ken Buchanan

Could the Scot handle Ike's bombs.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Carlos Ortiz vs. Jose Napoles

A bout that should have happened in 1964.
------------------------------------------------------------

Ray Mancini vs. Andy Ganigan

A 'Boom Boom' vs. an 'Hawaiian Punch'

[IamInuit]

It's hard to comment truthfully on Pac vs Floyd without haters from one side or another getting their feelings hurt about it.


Pac-Duran at lightweight...well Roberto Duran is considered the greatest lightweight in the world for a reason. I wonder about the power Pac has, and the handspeed, but I think at lightweight Duran would handle Manny he was just too technically sound.

Indeed, this forum on the topic of either one of those two has been reduced to one either being a "nuthugger" or "hater" and we both know what happens to objectivity when that happens.

I actually think that 35 would be a harder slog for both men then 47.

Beau Jack
Benny Leonard
Joe Gans
Lou Ambers
Shane Mosley
Freddie Welsh
Carlos Ortiz
Hank Armstrong
Oscar Delahoya
Roberto Duran
Ike Williams
Ken Buchanan
Toney Canzoneri
Pernell Whitaker although I’d hate to see a fight between these 2 at any weight.
Iamael Laguna
Barney Ross


The better pack a lunch.

[Master]

The lightweight division has a rich history and there were great fighters @IamInuit mentions. Manny just passed through the weight during his peak and very impressive phase, that frightened Floyd so much he accused him of being unnatural, bu he did not stay there long enough to say he was greater than the top fighters.

Style wise Duran would land big right hands on Manny but Pac Man's punch power and speed would give hand of stone trouble. Still think Duran wins.

Julio Ceaser Chavez v Roberto Duran would have been great.

[IamInuit]

The lightweight division has a rich history and there were great fighters @IamInuit mentions. Manny just passed through the weight during his peak and very impressive phase, that frightened Floyd so much he accused him of being unnatural, bu he did not stay there long enough to say he was greater than the top fighters.

Style wise Duran would land big right hands on Manny but Pac Man's punch power and speed would give hand of stone trouble. Still think Duran wins.

Julio Ceaser Chavez v Roberto Duran would have been great.

Not sure on the speed thing my friend. Duran was unreal at 135. I'd argue he was just as fast as Manny if not faster. He matched speed with Leonard at 147. Durans another one of these guys I grew to like after his peak but thought of him a dick during it. Dejesus managed to out point him once but he was unstoppable and reached 71-1. I actually feel bad for Duran because he was overshadowed by Ali.

When both Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown say they never saw anything like him since Henry Armstrong, that carries a lot of cred. Both guys trained Armstrong and grew up around Benny Leonard. Speaking of mythical matchups, I'd probably remove a testicle to see Armstrong v Duran.

[Master]

I was not going to mention speed but regretted typing it but it is a strength of Manny but you are right Dejesus was fast and Duran handled him.

[Bill Paxtom]

Ike Williams {1947 Verison}
vs.
Ken Buchanan {1971 version}

Ike Williams
Age......... 24 years old
Height..... 5' 9"
Reach...... 68"
Record .... 86-10-3 {46 KO's}

Ken Buchanan
Age......... 26 years old
Height..... 5' 8"
Reach...... 70"
Record .... 41-1-0 {15 KO's}

While Ken had the better technical skills, he lacked 'big' power despite being a sharp puncher.

Ike had 'no fear' of getting hit, and was an aggressive fighter with excellent power.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Fight >

Ike would take the fight to Kenny, by using constant pressure and a steady attack. Ken would
be forced to be in the defense and his offense would be limited to counter-punching. Ike would
be too strong early and jar Kenny with his power.

By the end of Round 3, Ike would have a commanding lead > 3-0-0 in Rounds.

Kenny would finally get into the fight in Rounds 4 and 5, and score with measured left-jabs and
occasional right-hand counters. But still, Ike's power would keep Kenny wary and on the outside.

Both Rounds 4 and 5 are 'Even'.

Kenny would take charge in Round 6, and use his long arms to 'sharp-shoot' Ike. Kenny would
sweep Rounds 6 thru 8 to 'even' the bout on the Scorecards > {3-3-2}.

But Ike would not be discouraged, as he would bide his time waiting to mount his 'patented' all-out
attacks.

It would come in Round 9, when he catches Kenny with a 'bomb', and then batters Kenny into the
Ropes where he drops him with a vicious body-attack.

Kenny is up at the '5-Count', and is hurt from the body-blows. Ike mounts another charge, and has
Kenny in trouble late. But Kenny uses his boxing ability to ride the 'rough wave' and gets out of
the Round.

In Rounds 10 and 11, Kenny is forced to back away and move in avoiding Ike's rambunctious attacks.
Ike continues winging bombs, and hurts Kenny with his body punches, but he is not pacing himself
and looks a bit winded at the end of Round 11.

In Round 12, Ike scores early and has Kenny backing away. But Kenny makes a 'minor' comeback
at the halfway point in the session as Ike has slowed down. Kenny starts scoring with left-jabs and
an occasional right-cross, and has Ike backing away over the last 20-Seconds of the Round.

Kenny continues with a steady and even-keel pace in Rounds 13 and 14, and out-jabs Ike with
an assortment of left-hands. Ike is weary ending each Round, and welcomes hearing the Bell in
both Rounds.

Round 15 >
Ike comes out fast, and tries to stem Kenny's tide. Ike catches Kenny with a big right-hand that
has him rubbery-legged. Ike opens up, and lands punch-after-punch on a dazed Buchanan.

But Kenny rides out the 'storm' as Ike punches himself out at the {1:10 Mark}. Kenny slowly
gets into gear and peppers an exhausted Williams with left-hands to the face.

By the {2:00 Mark} a winded Ike is backing away, and goes to the Ropes to stay up on 'weak legs'.

Kenny opens up, and hammers away with everything he's got over the last minute. Ike takes a
lathering, but manages to stay upright until the Final Bell.

Scorecards
* 143-142 > Ike Williams
* 144-142 > Ike Williams
* 143-143 > 'Even'

Ike Williams wins by a 'Majority Decision'

[Master]

I have seen clips of Beau Jack, Ike Williams and Bob Montgomery and they look absolute beasts in the ring.

[frasd]

The lightweight division has a rich history and there were great fighters @IamInuit mentions. Manny just passed through the weight during his peak and very impressive phase, that frightened Floyd so much he accused him of being unnatural, bu he did not stay there long enough to say he was greater than the top fighters.

Style wise Duran would land big right hands on Manny but Pac Man's punch power and speed would give hand of stone trouble. Still think Duran wins.

Julio Ceaser Chavez v Roberto Duran would have been great.

Not sure on the speed thing my friend. Duran was unreal at 135. I'd argue he was just as fast as Manny if not faster. He matched speed with Leonard at 147. Durans another one of these guys I grew to like after his peak but thought of him a dick during it. Dejesus managed to out point him once but he was unstoppable and reached 71-1. I actually feel bad for Duran because he was overshadowed by Ali.

When both Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown say they never saw anything like him since Henry Armstrong, that carries a lot of cred. Both guys trained Armstrong and grew up around Benny Leonard. Speaking of mythical matchups, I'd probably remove a testicle to see Armstrong v Duran.

Like I said, I am a big Duran fan. I bought a box set of his fights online. Quality was not too bad and a great collection. At first I thought it was a mistake but the only fights not on the collection was Leanord II and Hearns fight. Just as well I guess. But I looked through all the DVDs 50 times to see if I was mistaken. Must be a coincidence.
His biography is a good read as well and I still say he was a monster at lightweight and wouldn't bet against him vs past or present greats.

[IamInuit]

The lightweight division has a rich history and there were great fighters @IamInuit mentions. Manny just passed through the weight during his peak and very impressive phase, that frightened Floyd so much he accused him of being unnatural, bu he did not stay there long enough to say he was greater than the top fighters.

Style wise Duran would land big right hands on Manny but Pac Man's punch power and speed would give hand of stone trouble. Still think Duran wins.

Julio Ceaser Chavez v Roberto Duran would have been great.

Not sure on the speed thing my friend. Duran was unreal at 135. I'd argue he was just as fast as Manny if not faster. He matched speed with Leonard at 147. Durans another one of these guys I grew to like after his peak but thought of him a dick during it. Dejesus managed to out point him once but he was unstoppable and reached 71-1. I actually feel bad for Duran because he was overshadowed by Ali.

When both Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown say they never saw anything like him since Henry Armstrong, that carries a lot of cred. Both guys trained Armstrong and grew up around Benny Leonard. Speaking of mythical matchups, I'd probably remove a testicle to see Armstrong v Duran.

Like I said, I am a big Duran fan. I bought a box set of his fights online. Quality was not too bad and a great collection. At first I thought it was a mistake but the only fights not on the collection was Leanord II and Hearns fight. Just as well I guess. But I looked through all the DVDs 50 times to see if I was mistaken. Must be a coincidence.
His biography is a good read as well and I still say he was a monster at lightweight and wouldn't bet against him vs past or present greats.

I guess they never factored in Youtube By leaving those two fights off the set they actually increased their viewing.