Line of Fire

[SugarBoxing]

I feel that when throwing the straight right hand the "danger zone" is along the line that passes through the feet of the fighter roughly:

http://postimg.org/image/cdurigvrh/



Do you know any book that discusses it?

How to sort of motivate it from the punching mechanics

[jms]

Yes when you think of it, you can only really generate power in two directions: from one leg to the other. Thus to maximize power you want the alignment of your feet relative to the target to match the trajectory of the punch. So for straight punches and uppercuts, you get the most power with your lead foot aimed at the target and your rear foot behind it (without being in a line or crossed for balance reasons of course). For hooks, they're harder if your foot position is square like the guy on the right in your example. It's no good to just stand that way though, every shot that hits you will knock you on your heels, your defense and distance are compromised and your straight punches aren't gonna be as effective. If you want to throw hooks from there, you have to be able to transition into that stance either off defensive movements, pivots or when your opponent is shelling up.

It's the same when you ask about kicks too. Guys who throw a lot of linear kicks will stand more like boxers whereas guys who throw a lot of round kicks stand more square. It's just how the body works.

[Andre]

The line is from the rear big toe to the fist on impact. If the opposition can stop the fist with a palm of the hand (even lightly) before or during the fist launching the punch, the heel behind the toe wont go through full lift there will be no follow through,the power will be diffused.

[SugarBoxing]

The line is from the rear big toe to the fist on impact.

That' 100% true.

But the problem is I do not want to "experience" such line of fire, I want to predict it before the fist is thrown, as early as possible

[Andre]

Of course there's all the usual options; the slip n double hook under and over it,duck and counter, block adjust, adjust and throw a cross over the path etc.

Could be fun to experiement with some rarer stuff too if he is an open fighter and likes his distance but you are not bothered by him and just want in.

You ever gone for the rear hand with your lead left and choked it out before it can fire? Takes guts or (or you read him easy toward the end game and have no respect for his power) to be able to move in right under his nose like that and choke a shot out you know is coming. but its another rare option. You can then throw your rear right tight shot right across the path of his free lead arm faster on the move, than he can react and adjust to his other arm being chocked down and his shot interrupted,with practice you'll catch him square and right in front of you if you adjust.

[SugarBoxing]

Of course there's all the usual options; the slip n double hook under and over it,duck and counter, block adjust, adjust and throw a cross over the path etc.

Could be fun to experiement with some rarer stuff too if he is an open fighter and likes his distance but you are not bothered by him and just want in.

You ever gone for the rear hand with your lead left and choked it out before it can fire? Takes guts or (or you read him easy toward the end game and have no respect for his power) to be able to move in right under his nose like that and choke a shot out you know is coming. but its another rare option. You can then throw your rear right tight shot right across the path of his free lead arm faster on the move, than he can react and adjust to his other arm being chocked down and his shot interrupted,with practice you'll catch him square and right in front of you if you adjust.

thanks.

I mean how to estimate the line of fire for say straight punches based on the stance only, i.e. words before the opponent throws his punches.

[Andre]

You thinking of watching their feet?

[jms]

I mean how to estimate the line of fire for say straight punches based on the stance only, i.e. words before the opponent throws his punches.

Well if the opponent is any good he's gonna be working to ALWAYS have his punches lined up while trying to move so yours aren't. The line of fire is always right on you by default, until you find a way to change that.

[SugarBoxing]

You thinking of watching their feet?

Of course, but I need to justify it some how

[Andre]

Its easier to watch their elbows than their feet because you still have blocking points to punches in full view and their (knees) linked to feet which are all their balance points and blocking points in your peripheral vision.

Some fighters who use all the limbs use that view at times. You can even see a head butt coming off the elbow point and you can control their balance off it and turn them easily from it too. Also people who swear you have to look into someones eyes in order to box are then stuffed because they cannot look into your eyes. The benefits depend on the style and the fight but theres no reason not to be able to do both. I think so personally, only because the only real argument against it, is from arms only fighting styles and the argument there is self defeating as stated above.

[greynotsoold]

Real good boxers are very aware of the opponent's feet. I started thinking that a long time ago watching Henry Armstrong fight, with his head down, the way he rolled inside punches to punch back. It seemed to me that he was keying off their feet to know what punch was coming. That little turn of weight will give it away, the feet shift, right?
Around that time I got to talking with a guy that ran a gym near where I lived. He said he'd had hundreds of fights in the 20s and 30s, and he looked it, though I've not found him on boxrec...But he showed me a few things that are based off knowing right where a guy's feet are at a particular moment. How you can trap him with your foot and line him up for a punch, like that, or turn him to where he can't punch back without picking up his front foot. Knowing things like that, about an opponent's feet, affects what punches you throw at him.

[Andre]

Yeah bit like Pep, many cant see what he had got going on there cause it looks like danger and a square on mess at times. But when you see them fight off one side of themselves and allow the opposition to pass through their own center line or around them and they don't change their feet they just follow them or turn the top of their body and follow still throwing shots over the guys tailing side and then they adjust feet to where the dude lands. Sometimes their own rear arm becomes the lead they've switched without even moving their feet and they mean it cause they are in the center of the cyclone and know to turn and deal with one side when the other is spent. You can see these guys knew all the limits and exactly when to hold em and when to fold em.They knew instinctively when the power was not available in one arm for a second if a guy was moving a certain way to them.They knew the timing and moves around a spent shot. Rare you'd see them walk into anything clean or over committing themselves in a hot spot.

[greynotsoold]

Yeah bit like Pep, many cant see what he had got going on there cause it looks like danger and a square on mess at times. But when you see them fight off one side of themselves and allow the opposition to pass through their own center line or around them and they don't change their feet they just follow them or turn the top of their body and follow still throwing shots over the guys tailing side and then they adjust feet to where the dude lands. Sometimes their own rear arm becomes the lead they've switched without even moving their feet and they mean it cause they are in the center of the cyclone and know to turn and deal with one side when the other is spent. You can see these guys knew all the limits and exactly when to hold em and when to fold em.They knew instinctively when the power was not available in one arm for a second if a guy was moving a certain way to them.They knew the timing and moves around a spent shot. Rare you'd see them walk into anything clean or over committing themselves in a hot spot.

What this guy showed me was this...(two orthodox fighters) You can slide your left foot into his left foot, lock the insteps, more or less. You pivot off to your right with a right hand, hook and keep punching. he has to spin to his left to get out, or pick up his foot and turn.
That lead foot, how and where you place it in relation to his lead foot, you can do a lot with it. Of course, to get to that point you have to be so insanely comfortable with people punching at you that it will probably never be seen again. I'm sure that guys like ezzard charles, holman williams, those guys that had so many fights, could do it all day.

[Andre]

Yeah they would probably get in there occasionally with sheer intuition at that stage.
Like if you can pull a guys lead foot just a touch towards you as he is landing , his elbows will go out for balance on reaction, you'd have to be very comfortable to pass under the hilt to mess with them like that though and probably in something other than boxing rules too.

[greynotsoold]

Yeah they would probably get in there occasionally with sheer intuition at that stage.
Like if you can pull a guys lead foot just a touch towards you as he is landing , his elbows will go out for balance on reaction, you'd have to be very comfortable to pass under the hilt to mess with them like that though and probably in something other than boxing rules too.

If i could show you what he showed me, you'd see it in a second. He steps in, you slide your front foot tight to his and pivot around it. It traps him. he can only turn one way, and you turn him into a hook. You can play a lot of games with their feet by getting 'tangled' with them.