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Thread: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Fat Dan had Wilder 114-112? My goodness. I can see zero scenario where he deserved a victory and proved to have no plan B whatsoever. Not trying to pile on and maybe hindsight is 20-20 but you could see a night like this coming a loooong time ago. Fury is far better than given credit for at least on my part and literally owned the fight during and in the aftermath with keeping the fans-promotions tuned in. Seriously..he could run for office .

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Damn people. So Fury has room to get better but Wilder can't?

    It's like you all have shovels in your hands and Wilder's grave was already dug.

    Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm gonna go with Door # 2. I'm gonna say Wilder can go back to the drawing board.... study the fight.... study his mistakes... and possibly learn from them.

    Remember... it's his first "loss" even though it was officially ruled a draw. It was his first time against a taller, bigger man. It was probably his first time against someone who wasn't looking for a place to land.

    It's like a pack of vultures in here.

    Wilder was never good enough.... AJ would destroy him.... blah, blah, blah.

    First.... Joshua isn't Fury. No head games... no unorthodox boxing skills... nothing but straightforward style. Who knows if Wilder maybe can't beat Fury's style, even in a rematch..... but would probably make mincemeat out of AJ.

    Styles make fights.

    We'll see what happens. I'd love to see a rematch, and although I imagine Fury would be favored and rightly so, I'm not ready to get the Wilder career tombstone engraved just yet.

    Wilder did look gassed at the end of the fight, and wasn't able to take advantage of the huge knockdown he put on Fury. That's something to put a red flag on.

    Other than that, Wilder CAN and occasionally DOES throw a straight right hand. That's what he put Fury down with in the 12th round. I'm assuming Wilder can still be coached.

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Quote Originally Posted by KickMuck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by powerpuncher View Post
    I’m not happy about Hurd wanting one more fight before Charlo. Charlo fights in a few weeks and they should just schedule the fight next.
    They always dragging these match ups out.

    I'd like it next, division is treading water a bit.
    Dragging a fight out means more money for promoters and fighters, less fight time meaning less blows to the head per year. So better for them. Just not for the fans.
    Sounds like Hurd is fighting Julian Williams in Apr/ May.
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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Damn people. So Fury has room to get better but Wilder can't?

    It's like you all have shovels in your hands and Wilder's grave was already dug.

    Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm gonna go with Door # 2. I'm gonna say Wilder can go back to the drawing board.... study the fight.... study his mistakes... and possibly learn from them.

    Remember... it's his first "loss" even though it was officially ruled a draw. It was his first time against a taller, bigger man. It was probably his first time against someone who wasn't looking for a place to land.

    It's like a pack of vultures in here.

    Wilder was never good enough.... AJ would destroy him.... blah, blah, blah.

    First.... Joshua isn't Fury. No head games... no unorthodox boxing skills... nothing but straightforward style. Who knows if Wilder maybe can't beat Fury's style, even in a rematch..... but would probably make mincemeat out of AJ.

    Styles make fights.

    We'll see what happens. I'd love to see a rematch, and although I imagine Fury would be favored and rightly so, I'm not ready to get the Wilder career tombstone engraved just yet.

    Wilder did look gassed at the end of the fight, and wasn't able to take advantage of the huge knockdown he put on Fury. That's something to put a red flag on.

    Other than that, Wilder CAN and occasionally DOES throw a straight right hand. That's what he put Fury down with in the 12th round. I'm assuming Wilder can still be coached.
    I agree. I would pick Fury to win a rematch, but we obviously saw that Wilder could hurt him. And if Wilder could fix a few things then he may be able to legitimately beat Fury.

    And it doesn’t prove anything about beating or not beating AJ.

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Quote Originally Posted by TitoFan View Post
    Damn people. So Fury has room to get better but Wilder can't?

    It's like you all have shovels in your hands and Wilder's grave was already dug.

    Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm gonna go with Door # 2. I'm gonna say Wilder can go back to the drawing board.... study the fight.... study his mistakes... and possibly learn from them.

    Remember... it's his first "loss" even though it was officially ruled a draw. It was his first time against a taller, bigger man. It was probably his first time against someone who wasn't looking for a place to land.

    It's like a pack of vultures in here.

    Wilder was never good enough.... AJ would destroy him.... blah, blah, blah.

    First.... Joshua isn't Fury. No head games... no unorthodox boxing skills... nothing but straightforward style. Who knows if Wilder maybe can't beat Fury's style, even in a rematch..... but would probably make mincemeat out of AJ.

    Styles make fights.

    We'll see what happens. I'd love to see a rematch, and although I imagine Fury would be favored and rightly so, I'm not ready to get the Wilder career tombstone engraved just yet.

    Wilder did look gassed at the end of the fight, and wasn't able to take advantage of the huge knockdown he put on Fury. That's something to put a red flag on.

    Other than that, Wilder CAN and occasionally DOES throw a straight right hand. That's what he put Fury down with in the 12th round. I'm assuming Wilder can still be coached.
    Fair points and true enough there is usually always adjustments to improvements that can be focused on. But to sound like a broken record, you cannot build backwards once you've already arrived at the pinnacle of divisions best. Technically I guess a guy can by reversing competition and some visibility but it's all stuff that should have and needed to be realized prior. It's essentially back to basics and unfortunately networks..especially a ppv..are not going to green light tune ups and tutoring sessions. Then again you never know by looking at last nights undercard . I'm not writing Wilder off by any means and this will open his eyes and hopefully his mind, I just think it was all so avoidable if the work and retooling was done when it should have been. Now he's forced to learn on the job on the terms of much better fighters for all to see. And in fairness they don't come much bigger than Fury and Wilder regardless of height has always been a lean lighter heavy. He hasn't outweighed an opponent for a half dozen years and the biggest guys he's fought were Washington and Price at 6'6 and 6'7 respectfully...both pretty limited and ex footballers and basketball players but it's the skill level, anywhere close save for Ortiz, of Fury that he wasn't facing that did him in. The responsibility for proper preparation lays squarely on the shoulders of promotion, managers and the fighter themselves and the Wilder camp got lost in the KO numbers. The rematch will be very interesting if it comes off but unfortunately it's now Wilder being the one who needs it more. I think the best thing Wilder can do right now is forget AJ exists. Stick his nose in the lesson books and focus entirely on whats exactly in front of him. Forget purse splits, hypotheticals and twitter wars and dress up. Do work! And for god sakes get that 1-2 going like a piston and stop shelling up walking straight back. Very humbling sport this one.
    Last edited by Spicoli; 12-03-2018 at 06:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    This fight changes nothing for me. In fact if anything it solidifies my belief that AJ deposits Fury into row Z and AJ Wilder is a who lands first job. Which is odd given that Fury looked as good as ever and Wilder looked worse than ever.

    Wilder continues to make the fundamental mistakes he’s always made with no sign of change. You would have to assume that they do work on those flaws in the gym. Maybe they get somewhere maybe they don’t. When he’s under the lights the evidence would suggest the latter. That’s my reason for thinking it’s Fury who improves and makes adjustments. Wilder will be hoping to land another home run and that Fury isn’t actually The Undertaker.
    When God said to the both of us "Which one of you wants to be Sugar Ray?" I guess I didnt raise my hand fast enough

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    This fight changes nothing for me. In fact if anything it solidifies my belief that AJ deposits Fury into row Z and AJ Wilder is a who lands first job. Which is odd given that Fury looked as good as ever and Wilder looked worse than ever.

    Wilder continues to make the fundamental mistakes he’s always made with no sign of change. You would have to assume that they do work on those flaws in the gym. Maybe they get somewhere maybe they don’t. When he’s under the lights the evidence would suggest the latter. That’s my reason for thinking it’s Fury who improves and makes adjustments. Wilder will be hoping to land another home run and that Fury isn’t actually The Undertaker.
    Wrote a big fucking reply and deleted it.

    Basically, I agree.
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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-...coring--134267 some various media gits and their scorecards.


    Punches thrown and Landed: Tyson Fury 84 of 327, Deontay Wilder 71 of 430
    Power Shots Thrown and Landed: Tyson Fury 38 of 104, Deontay Wilder 31 of 182
    Jabs Thrown and Landed: Tyson Fury 46 of 223, Deontay Wilder 40 of 248

    Punch stats copy and pasted from boxrec no idea how accurate they are.


    I don't think wilder is very good, I still think Vitali could take a weekend off being mayor of Kiev and beat him with ease, but we'll done to him too, he took up boxing at twenty years old and had a limited amateur career, a lot of crap pri fughts early on and he's done pretty good for himself. He's fun to watch too. He's taking on talented guys who've been boxing way longer than him and still managing to ko or nearly ko them (last night)... wilder can be very proud of his career, which I think won't last that more many years. Not everyone gets to win a world title and defend it a few times....

    Big baby would stop wilder though! Come on big baby (errrr u wot m8 )

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Those punch stats just don’t look right to me

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Quote Originally Posted by palmerq View Post
    https://www.boxingscene.com/deontay-...coring--134267 some various media gits and their scorecards.


    Punches thrown and Landed: Tyson Fury 84 of 327, Deontay Wilder 71 of 430
    Power Shots Thrown and Landed: Tyson Fury 38 of 104, Deontay Wilder 31 of 182
    Jabs Thrown and Landed: Tyson Fury 46 of 223, Deontay Wilder 40 of 248

    Punch stats copy and pasted from boxrec no idea how accurate they are.


    I don't think wilder is very good, I still think Vitali could take a weekend off being mayor of Kiev and beat him with ease, but we'll done to him too, he took up boxing at twenty years old and had a limited amateur career, a lot of crap pri fughts early on and he's done pretty good for himself. He's fun to watch too. He's taking on talented guys who've been boxing way longer than him and still managing to ko or nearly ko them (last night)... wilder can be very proud of his career, which I think won't last that more many years. Not everyone gets to win a world title and defend it a few times....

    Big baby would stop wilder though! Come on big baby (errrr u wot m8 )
    I think many of you are being far too harsh on Wilder. Even in the stats you cite there were only 13 punches between them. I do not know the round by round numbers, but you are talking a fight where there was no domination as such. In those first 4 rounds, Fury did not do very much at all. If there was a hundred punch difference then it is cut and dry, but 13 and with 2 knockdowns? It tightens it.

    Personally I think differently to Fenster. It does not matter if Fury landed a few more punches in the rounds he was knocked down in, he was still knocked down. Nothing is cancelled out. Sanchez has it fair in saying that he think Fury won, but that a draw is an acceptable result. If you want a shut out you cannot get knocked down twice and start so slowly for 4 rounds.

    It was hardly Calzaghe/Lacy. Wilder was in there, the punch stats were close, and he knocked his man down twice. I think it is unfair on Wilder and also disrespectful to Fury for many to be saying how bad Wilder is. There are clearly things he can do better, but he was in there against a very game Fury and still left his mark on the fight. It would not have been such a dramatic fight had he not had the skill to land that beautiful two punch combination that seemingly had Fury struggling.

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    You think differently to Fenster? I thought you said Fury won 8 rounds to 4?

    I was merely explaining the intricacies of scoring to you, miles. What you believe is cut and dried is in fact not so. That's all.

    Both knockdowns were scored 10-8? Fine. Were both knockdowns the same? No. The first was a clip on the back of the head that did little damage the second knocked Fury into another universe. In both cases Fury arguably won the round (ignoring the knockdown of course).

    You started complaining about "long counts" well the first knockdown was illegal. Take that away and it's yet another round Fury clearly won.

    My point isn't about whether or not a draw is doable, especially with hindsight and an agenda, just that the scoring system is flawed.

    There was only one winner and everyone knows it.
    Last edited by Fenster; 12-04-2018 at 04:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    I did not say the count was long, but there was about 22-23 seconds before the fighting resumed after the KD. Fury was allowed time to hold the ref and then run around. Granted I get that he needs to avoid being seriously hurt, but that is still a fair chunk of time.

    8-4 is a respectable enough scoreline, but I wouldn't complain about a draw as those first 4 rounds were all rather edgy and if the home fighter is given the nod then so be it. Certainly not a robbery though. If there were no KD's it was, but those 10-8's eat at the gap.

    I think Fury was the better boxer too, but that does not mean Fury won as boxing is a hurt game and if you go down then a fight gets closer. The only issue I really have is the 115-111 Wilder card as it just makes no sense at all. That has to be corruption of some kind. Practically impossible, but the other 2 cards I say 'I can see that'.

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I did not say the count was long, but there was about 22-23 seconds before the fighting resumed after the KD. Fury was allowed time to hold the ref and then run around. Granted I get that he needs to avoid being seriously hurt, but that is still a fair chunk of time.

    8-4 is a respectable enough scoreline, but I wouldn't complain about a draw as those first 4 rounds were all rather edgy and if the home fighter is given the nod then so be it. Certainly not a robbery though. If there were no KD's it was, but those 10-8's eat at the gap.

    I think Fury was the better boxer too, but that does not mean Fury won as boxing is a hurt game and if you go down then a fight gets closer. The only issue I really have is the 115-111 Wilder card as it just makes no sense at all. That has to be corruption of some kind. Practically impossible, but the other 2 cards I say 'I can see that'.
    You've totally contradicted yourself.

    If the first four rounds "could have gone either way" then you've absolutely justified the 115-111 Wilder judge. "I wouldn't complain about a draw as those first 4 rounds were all rather edgy and if the home fighter is given the nod then so be it."

    Well there you go, he thought Wilder "edged" them. If, as you claim, they could have gone "either way" his scorecard is perfectly legit. Fact.

    He gave Wilder just one other round like his fellow judges (barring the two 10-8 rounds).
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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    I think you can make a case in terms of those first 4 rounds as they were the closest the 2 fighters had. Does not mean I scored all 4 to Wilder myself as I did not, but I do think it was even at that stage. Fury only really started to be impressive after 4.

    The mid rounds he pulled apart. Then the championship rounds he was pulled back in with the 10-8's.

    I do not agree with 115-111. The card I like best was 113-113.

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    Default Re: Fury v Wilder - Staples Center, Los Angeles 1/12/18

    Points on one judge's scorecard was incorrectly announced in the Deontay Wilder vs Tyson Fury fight

    As if the decision and judging of the now infamous Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury wasn’t controversial enough, it has now emerged that there was a major miscalculation on one of the judge’s scorecards, meaning the wrong points scoring was announced.

    Everybody in Staples Center, Los Angles believed that, on hearing the final ring of the bell, Tyson Fury would lift the WBC heavyweight title after a sure in on a points decision.

    Everybody except two of the three judges that was.

    Despite being sent to the canvas and falling victim to two obvious 10-8 rounds, Fury was still up on everybody’s score cards back home.
    SHOWTIME had the fight 114-110 in Fury’s favour as did judge Robert Tapper.

    At least, that’s what they announced to everyone in the arena and millions watching back home.

    But that actually wasn’t the case. The maths was wrong. After a picture of the scorecard was released on Twitter, it was revealed that Tapper had actually scored the fight 114-112.

    The quite astonishing error would have mattered little, though. The error would not have affected the overall outcome of the fight meaning no serious action or resolution will take place.

    Every single judge sort it differently. Non-more so than Alejandro Rochin, who instantly became the number one public enemy.

    Controversially, he gave Wilder a resounding 115-111 advantage after 12 rounds.
    Post-fight, Fury was clearly not happy with the outcome.

    The controversy surrounding the points decision also revolves around an English judge who obviously didn’t favour Fury who has called for the British Boxing Board of Control to speak to British official Phil Edwards for delivering a 113-113 score.

    Fury has been commended by head trainer Ben Davison for not contriving to the obvious consensus that he'd been robbed of a historic title win.

    "I was telling my brothers and my family to keep quiet," Fury explained in his post-fight press conference.

    "There were about 8,000 travellers and Brits who had come from around the world, maybe even 10,000.

    "They probably would have smashed this arena up if I'd instigated it and I mean to the floor!

    "I just wanted to be an ambassador for my country and my people," concluded the former heavyweight world champion.

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