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Thread: Bute v. Grachev 11/3/12

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  1. #16
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    Default Re: Bute v. Grachev 11/3/12

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master View Post
    He should have an easier warm up to get his confidence back not risk getting smashed again. Bute could get away with it in Canada.

    This IS an easy fight to get his confidence back, while giving him some rounds at best. I just don't get the perceived threat in Grachev. "He beat Sillakh who was supposed to be good, must be a dangerous guy..." Did people actually watch that? He is a plodder and only came back to win because Sillakh didn't try and close to show when he probably could've and then completely gassed out by the mid rounds. If Bute plans to rematch Froch with possibly only this one fight as a tune up then it is pointless to take on a complete stiff, it's a good choice of opponent really. Bute is still talented and a good puncher, he should get a stoppage early on here.
    @p4pking I guess after thinking about it more as a result of reading your posts, I can agree that Grachev may be a good choice of opponent for Bute to get his confidence back, if he wins, of course. Grachev has good stamina, ability to recover, and a big punch. Bute needs to be able to feel comfortable that he can handle a fighter with those attributes when he faces Froch next. So, in that respect, I see your point.

    I disagree with you that Grachev is a plodder with no talent. Is he a slick fighter with fancy footwork? In no way, shape, or form. On the other hand, is he talentless? Not at all. Your comments reminded me of when some people downplayed Margarito's win over Cotto at the time (now I personally believe Margarito used cement in that fight, but that's a different topic altogether) because Cotto took the first 6 rounds or so, and Margarito only eventually wore Cotto down to score the win, or Froch's win over Taylor. A win's a win. Too often people forget it. Wins come in different forms, but winning by relentless pursuit in the later rounds is no worse than a slick boxer winning on points. In a way, the dogged determination from a less talented fighter is perhaps more admirable. Having a chin, heavy hands, and good stamina can take a boxer pretty damn far. In addition, beating Sillakh isn't something to take lightly. I would argue having a win over Sillakh is p4p better than any win on Broner's CV, and Broner's a star.

    I too saw the fight against Sillakh, and Sillakh hit Grachev with everything but the kitchen sink. If I recall, Grachev even went down once from a pretty big shot, recovered, and continued to march forward, pursuing until he eventually knocked Sillakh out. Should Taylor have finished Froch off in the third round of their fight? In hindsight, sure, but a fight is a fight, and Froch won. Same goes here. Make no mistake about it, it was clear as daylight that Sillakh possessed more talent than Grachev. However, we can also agree that it is clear now that Grachev either possess more determination or more stamina than Sillakh, at least that night he did. It just goes to show that there are many variables in boxing, raw talent is only one of them. Also, take note that Sillakh didn't jump back in a rematch with Grachev. He needed to "rebuild."

    Maybe I'm just bitter because I was hyping Sillakh as the next big thing at light heavyweight. Anyway, sorry in advance for going off on a tangent.
    Last edited by Rantcatrat; 08-17-2012 at 06:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Bute v. Grachev 11/3/12

    Not at all, and I see what you're saying. I just don't think it compares to Margarito against Cotto whatsoever. In the early rounds Cotto took there, he was still taking punishment and being pressed out of his comfort zone quite often. When the tides did turn, we saw several rounds where Margarito was seriously doing damage and gaining momentum.

    Grachev did very little against Sillakh until he had a guy who was dead tired simply from hitting him, and even then he wasn't having any success until he landed the one bomb. Sillakh is talented no doubt, but that fight tells me he doesn't have the chin or stamina to pull off the kind of style he fights with, and he doesn't hit nearly as hard as Bute either.

    I'm not even saying Grachev is a bum or has no hope in this, but that if Bute is serious about rematching Froch he needs a live opponent, as you said. Lucian is either much better than he showed in Nottingham or he isn't, either way he needs to find out quickly as Froch has other options and won't be around much longer.

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    Default Re: Bute v. Grachev 11/3/12

    Quote Originally Posted by p4pking View Post
    Not at all, and I see what you're saying. I just don't think it compares to Margarito against Cotto whatsoever. In the early rounds Cotto took there, he was still taking punishment and being pressed out of his comfort zone quite often. When the tides did turn, we saw several rounds where Margarito was seriously doing damage and gaining momentum.

    Grachev did very little against Sillakh until he had a guy who was dead tired simply from hitting him, and even then he wasn't having any success until he landed the one bomb. Sillakh is talented no doubt, but that fight tells me he doesn't have the chin or stamina to pull off the kind of style he fights with, and he doesn't hit nearly as hard as Bute either.

    I'm not even saying Grachev is a bum or has no hope in this, but that if Bute is serious about rematching Froch he needs a live opponent, as you said. Lucian is either much better than he showed in Nottingham or he isn't, either way he needs to find out quickly as Froch has other options and won't be around much longer.
    Really good dialogue between yourself and Rant. It’s hard for me as a die-hard Bute fan because a part of me wished he went for the rematch straight away. Like Leonard did with Duran or Benn and Eubank with Collins. Another part realizes how the times have changed and that fighters today need the “confidence builder” and especially after a ko.
    168 is stretched pretty thin with most being busy so slim pickings hence the weight change. I also think we are going to see an all Quebec showdown in the next 2 years between Pascal and Bute so they are probably looking at that with the weight.

    What bothers me about this fight is that it’s really not strategically valid. Grachev as tough as he is could not box his way out of a hallway closet and shares no attributes with Froch outside of a punch. Are you really going into this fight just to see if your chin will hold out if nailed? You were knocked out in the amateurs Lucian.

    I’ve been watching the Romanian connection since Dorin and that was not Bute in England. He left his entire tool kit in the dressing room and was taken completely out of the fight before the ring walk. What he needs more then a heavy bag to beat up is an elite sports psychologist. Carl knows this and has already won the opening salvo. He on the other hand is a modern day Denny Moyer with the ability to shut out a Quebec crowd.
    Froch already has him by the balls and a rematch is close to year away.

    Who knows could be just a money grab by Interbox with Lucas walking away and most likely suing.

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