Is it fair to say today's HW champions are more chinny?

[TitoFan]

Other than the result of the Wlad-Fury fight, which was WONDERFUL..... the fight itself left a lot to be desired. Wlad fought like I knew he would..... scared sh*tless of getting tagged by Fury. Fury, on the other hand, was a lot more offensive in comparison.... but he still gave plenty of respect to Wlad's power, lest he get caught by a power punch and put down. As a result, it wasn't exactly a classic for the ages.

Which brings to mind, are HW champions nowadays more chinny than in the past? We can add Wilder in there, while we're at it. No one really knows how Wilder's chin would hold up, because it's rarely been tested. But the consensus seems to be that Wilder is one huge punch away from a knockout loss. So Fury gets knocked down by a cruiserweight..... Wlad fights like his chin is made of paper maché..... and Wilder hasn't fought anybody who's tested his chin.

It wasn't that long ago that we saw the likes of Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, and Riddick Bowe whaling away at each other. Even that other huge HW upset, Douglas vs. Tyson, featured two guys beating the hell out of each other. The fight itself was great. Huge exchanges, with Douglas even being put down with a Tyson uppercut late in the fight.

Why is it that now we have heavyweights who apparently would swoon at a grazing jab? What's going on? Is it the size? I know Wlad and Fury are huge heavyweights.... but Lewis was pretty big himself. The age of the smaller heavyweights ended with Ali, Frazier and company.

The style of today's heavyweight fights is probably one of the big reasons the division has lost so much popularity over the years.

[powerpuncher]

I would say its less chinny and more of having less heart.

[ross]

No.

I will rehash this. Clay got dropped by 180lb british journeyman, and 190lb american journeyman on his way up, what would have happened had it been 210lb Cunningham?

Fighters are hitting harder nowadays. More weight.

The human skull isnt evolving fast enough to cope with all the developements in suppliments, perforfance enhancing drugs etc. To prove my point and I dont think hes world class but could any of the old greats have managed to put on 20lbs of lean muscle in 2 years like Joshua has done? In fact could any other fighter do that without massive suspicion?

Have the human race also evolved in to world class fighters in their late forties early fifties? Heavyweights now having the best of their careers in their late thirties?

Get real! The heavyweigts of yesteryear would be like ragdolls with some of todays journeymen.

[ross]

The initial post, think of it like this.

Watching a battle or war.

Compare the old toe to toe scraps where fighters were more on an equal playing field like the spartans etc against the more adanced planning where new technologies bought new dangers like Napoleon.

There is much more danger for a heavyweight fighter today than there was in the past.

[El Kabong]

The style of today's heavyweight fights is probably one of the big reasons the division has lost so much popularity over the years.

But you got your wish....Wlad lost......but Tyson Fury is no better?



Are we to expect the same droning whine about Fury from you or is it different?

[TitoFan]

The style of today's heavyweight fights is probably one of the big reasons the division has lost so much popularity over the years.

But you got your wish....Wlad lost......but Tyson Fury is no better?



Are we to expect the same droning whine about Fury from you or is it different?

If Fury digresses into a scared sh*tless robot, who turns every fight into a horrible to watch spectacle, while fighting solely not to get knocked out...............

Yes.... absolutely you'll get the same droning whine from me.

[Bill Paxtom]

No.

I will rehash this. Clay got dropped by 180lb british journeyman, and 190lb american journeyman on his way up, what would have happened had it been 210lb Cunningham?

Fighters are hitting harder nowadays. More weight.

The human skull isnt evolving fast enough to cope with all the developements in suppliments, perforfance enhancing drugs etc. To prove my point and I dont think hes world class but could any of the old greats have managed to put on 20lbs of lean muscle in 2 years like Joshua has done? In fact could any other fighter do that without massive suspicion?

Have the human race also evolved in to world class fighters in their late forties early fifties? Heavyweights now having the best of their careers in their late thirties?

Get real! The heavyweigts of yesteryear would be like ragdolls with some of todays journeymen.

Correct El Mundo

Look what Little Joe Frazier did to Cassius Clay.

Just imagine Little Joe up against the Monster of Today.

It would be considered a 'Joke and a Mismatch'.

Skinny 'reed-thin' Bob Foster went 8-Rounds with Cassius Clay, and sliced him as well.

Imagine Bob Foster in the Ring with 240 lb. King-Sized Punchers.

'NO'

[El Kabong]

If Fury digresses into a scared sh*tless robot, who turns every fight into a horrible to watch spectacle, while fighting solely not to get knocked out...............

Yes.... absolutely you'll get the same droning whine from me.

.....he hasn't done that yet?


Nah, nah, you're right, too early to judge, too early to judge

[Batman]

Completely off topic here but when was the last time that there was no threads about Mayweather on the front page of the forum

Amazing well done Fury, that is probably a bigger achievement that beating Klit

[J_Undisputed]

You might say that but really i think its a matter of perspective. Ike and Tuaman Werent fighting that long ago and registered in what you might call this superheavy range. They took punches from guys like Lennox. So in a way you might be right not in that theses guys are more chinny than the late 80's/early 90's guys. I just think The chinny guys are making it further.
Back then you always had a few punchers around that would be gatekeepers. You went through these guys to reach the upper tier and get your strap and recognition. whether that meant sticking and moving and cutting a guy to ribbons, dragging him into deep water while he expended all his energy throwing bombs that would drop a elephant, or tied him up frustrated him till he lost interest and outpointed him. Corey Sanders/ lamon brewster, or sam peter may not quite be the rudduck, bruno, norton, or foster of decades past... but Vlad got ironed out by one or two and came back against one or two on his way to what he is/was prior to Saturday.

The heavies used to be a lot deeper, I would say... so maybe it would have been harder and a lot less rewarding for Vlad to make the comebacks he did back then. So maybe now the heavyweight landscape is a little more forgiving. There's guys of all shapes and sizes and skill levels out there with what i would consider better opportunities than they would have had in the past. Flabby guys , squat guys, inflated cruiser-weights, giant 7 footers with very little coordination, small heart guys, no punch guys. In the past there were were guys like Tubbs (who could be flabby sometimes) and Byrd (with no punch), evander and moorer (came up from cruiser). So i think every wave has its own representations of those types. In the past I think the division was deeper with fighters that looked the part of a gladiator, had the coordination, the training, the motivation and above all the intent/killer instinct.

Now I think we have a lot more "athletes" trying to cash in. Not that a doctorate in sports science diminishes Klitchskos skill level in anyway, but how many heavyweights could have boasted that in the past. He could retire now and probably make 100k a year as a celebrity trainer or nutritionist, etc. Many of those guys in the past were born to very humble backgrounds and outrunning a very poor quality of life.... or they were chasing a dream and wouldn't be deterred..... they were paid less for more risk and didn't take that lightly and were ready to destroy someone who wanted to take it from them.

Now even the loser cashes in, so they line up like malik scott to be grazed unconscious. just my opinion of course, i could be wrong.

[TitoFan]

If Fury digresses into a scared sh*tless robot, who turns every fight into a horrible to watch spectacle, while fighting solely not to get knocked out...............

Yes.... absolutely you'll get the same droning whine from me.

.....he hasn't done that yet?


Nah, nah, you're right, too early to judge, too early to judge

@El Kabong

Lyle, you're being a pretty damn good sport about it all.
Heaven knows you've gotten all sorts of grief over the fight, but you've been pretty magnanimous about it.

TBH, although I most certainly do not Wlad's fighting style and have always complained about it... I also give him his due in that he's been a long-lasting heavyweight champ, regardless of the circumstances involved. He'll be treated kindly by history, based on his numbers alone. On a personal level, he's a decent and educated human being, something not at all common in boxing. Who knows.... now that he's been dethroned he may come back with a chip on his shoulder, and a completely different approach to fighting if there was to be a rematch.

But the fact remains that I'm ecstatic that he's no longer HW champ.
We need the danger and the excitement of years past.
Boxing needs it.

BTW..... kudos on your new avatar.

[El Kabong]

@El Kabong

Lyle, you're being a pretty damn good sport about it all.
Heaven knows you've gotten all sorts of grief over the fight, but you've been pretty magnanimous about it.

TBH, although I most certainly do not Wlad's fighting style and have always complained about it... I also give him his due in that he's been a long-lasting heavyweight champ, regardless of the circumstances involved. He'll be treated kindly by history, based on his numbers alone. On a personal level, he's a decent and educated human being, something not at all common in boxing. Who knows.... now that he's been dethroned he may come back with a chip on his shoulder, and a completely different approach to fighting if there was to be a rematch.

But the fact remains that I'm ecstatic that he's no longer HW champ.
We need the danger and the excitement of years past.
Boxing needs it.

BTW..... kudos on your new avatar.

Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Sanders? Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Brewster? Did I go anywhere when Cotto lost to Margarito? Or Floyd? Did I go anywhere when Andy Lee lost to Brian Vera? It's really not all that huge of a deal...boxers lose, it has happened and will continue on happening.


What I object to, and what I find irritating is people who want to do nothing but shit on a fighter....just constantly bad mouthing every single aspect of them.....and then once there's a chance that maybe giving that fighter some credit is useful to the argument and the person complaining comes back and says "Well you know, actually, I rated them quite highly"



THAT....that will not do and I will not abide.


Likewise, if you hate a fighter's style and another fighter who doesn't set the world alight with his performance wins.....then the cheering and mocking and gloating should be kept on mute. It's one thing to have a champion sparked out completely, it's another thing to have a champion under perform and I mean REALLY under perform and the challenger just show up and win in a lackluster fight......people have given Wlad and myself for being a fan of his, PLENTY of stick.....I don't mind so long as it's intellectually honest and there are no "yeah but" arguments about it.


So if Fury continues to fight the rest of his career as he has prior to this fight with Wladimir.....I expect to see certain people front and center in berating his performances. Fair is fair

[TitoFan]

@El Kabong

Lyle, you're being a pretty damn good sport about it all.
Heaven knows you've gotten all sorts of grief over the fight, but you've been pretty magnanimous about it.

TBH, although I most certainly do not Wlad's fighting style and have always complained about it... I also give him his due in that he's been a long-lasting heavyweight champ, regardless of the circumstances involved. He'll be treated kindly by history, based on his numbers alone. On a personal level, he's a decent and educated human being, something not at all common in boxing. Who knows.... now that he's been dethroned he may come back with a chip on his shoulder, and a completely different approach to fighting if there was to be a rematch.

But the fact remains that I'm ecstatic that he's no longer HW champ.
We need the danger and the excitement of years past.
Boxing needs it.

BTW..... kudos on your new avatar.

Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Sanders? Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Brewster? Did I go anywhere when Cotto lost to Margarito? Or Floyd? Did I go anywhere when Andy Lee lost to Brian Vera? It's really not all that huge of a deal...boxers lose, it has happened and will continue on happening.


What I object to, and what I find irritating is people who want to do nothing but shit on a fighter....just constantly bad mouthing every single aspect of them.....and then once there's a chance that maybe giving that fighter some credit is useful to the argument and the person complaining comes back and says "Well you know, actually, I rated them quite highly"



THAT....that will not do and I will not abide.


Likewise, if you hate a fighter's style and another fighter who doesn't set the world alight with his performance wins.....then the cheering and mocking and gloating should be kept on mute. It's one thing to have a champion sparked out completely, it's another thing to have a champion under perform and I mean REALLY under perform and the challenger just show up and win in a lackluster fight......people have given Wlad and myself for being a fan of his, PLENTY of stick.....I don't mind so long as it's intellectually honest and there are no "yeah but" arguments about it.


So if Fury continues to fight the rest of his career as he has prior to this fight with Wladimir.....I expect to see certain people front and center in berating his performances. Fair is fair

It was a compliment, Lyle.

But anyway, I did not understand Word One of your 2nd paragraph. Maybe you can reword it so I know who and what you're referring to. On your 4th paragraph, I guess we'll disagree on that. I've gloated like there's no tomorrow, not because I think Fury is the best thing since sliced bread, but because since the beginning I've been very outspoken about how Wlad fights like he's scared sh*tless, and we only needed the right opponent for Wlad to prove me right 3,000 percent. So mocking and gloating is not only the logical reaction..... in my book it's pretty much required.

About Fury's future? I've already answered that question. Any man who holds the HW championship and fights like Wlad did, scared sh*tless, will get berated by me. I don't care what his name is. You'll hear my.... what was it..... droning whining.

[El Kabong]

@El Kabong

Lyle, you're being a pretty damn good sport about it all.
Heaven knows you've gotten all sorts of grief over the fight, but you've been pretty magnanimous about it.

TBH, although I most certainly do not Wlad's fighting style and have always complained about it... I also give him his due in that he's been a long-lasting heavyweight champ, regardless of the circumstances involved. He'll be treated kindly by history, based on his numbers alone. On a personal level, he's a decent and educated human being, something not at all common in boxing. Who knows.... now that he's been dethroned he may come back with a chip on his shoulder, and a completely different approach to fighting if there was to be a rematch.

But the fact remains that I'm ecstatic that he's no longer HW champ.
We need the danger and the excitement of years past.
Boxing needs it.

BTW..... kudos on your new avatar.

Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Sanders? Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Brewster? Did I go anywhere when Cotto lost to Margarito? Or Floyd? Did I go anywhere when Andy Lee lost to Brian Vera? It's really not all that huge of a deal...boxers lose, it has happened and will continue on happening.


What I object to, and what I find irritating is people who want to do nothing but shit on a fighter....just constantly bad mouthing every single aspect of them.....and then once there's a chance that maybe giving that fighter some credit is useful to the argument and the person complaining comes back and says "Well you know, actually, I rated them quite highly"



THAT....that will not do and I will not abide.


Likewise, if you hate a fighter's style and another fighter who doesn't set the world alight with his performance wins.....then the cheering and mocking and gloating should be kept on mute. It's one thing to have a champion sparked out completely, it's another thing to have a champion under perform and I mean REALLY under perform and the challenger just show up and win in a lackluster fight......people have given Wlad and myself for being a fan of his, PLENTY of stick.....I don't mind so long as it's intellectually honest and there are no "yeah but" arguments about it.


So if Fury continues to fight the rest of his career as he has prior to this fight with Wladimir.....I expect to see certain people front and center in berating his performances. Fair is fair

It was a compliment, Lyle.

But anyway, I did not understand Word One of your 2nd paragraph. Maybe you can reword it so I know who and what you're referring to. On your 4th paragraph, I guess we'll disagree on that. I've gloated like there's no tomorrow, not because I think Fury is the best thing since sliced bread, but because since the beginning I've been very outspoken about how Wlad fights like he's scared sh*tless, and we only needed the right opponent for Wlad to prove me right 3,000 percent. So mocking and gloating is not only the logical reaction..... in my book it's pretty much required.

About Fury's future? I've already answered that question. Any man who holds the HW championship and fights like Wlad did, scared sh*tless, will get berated by me. I don't care what his name is. You'll hear my.... what was it..... droning whining.

Ooooooh it was a compliment. Well thank you, I'm humbled.

[TitoFan]

@El Kabong

Lyle, you're being a pretty damn good sport about it all.
Heaven knows you've gotten all sorts of grief over the fight, but you've been pretty magnanimous about it.

TBH, although I most certainly do not Wlad's fighting style and have always complained about it... I also give him his due in that he's been a long-lasting heavyweight champ, regardless of the circumstances involved. He'll be treated kindly by history, based on his numbers alone. On a personal level, he's a decent and educated human being, something not at all common in boxing. Who knows.... now that he's been dethroned he may come back with a chip on his shoulder, and a completely different approach to fighting if there was to be a rematch.

But the fact remains that I'm ecstatic that he's no longer HW champ.
We need the danger and the excitement of years past.
Boxing needs it.

BTW..... kudos on your new avatar.

Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Sanders? Did I go anywhere when Wlad lost to Brewster? Did I go anywhere when Cotto lost to Margarito? Or Floyd? Did I go anywhere when Andy Lee lost to Brian Vera? It's really not all that huge of a deal...boxers lose, it has happened and will continue on happening.


What I object to, and what I find irritating is people who want to do nothing but shit on a fighter....just constantly bad mouthing every single aspect of them.....and then once there's a chance that maybe giving that fighter some credit is useful to the argument and the person complaining comes back and says "Well you know, actually, I rated them quite highly"



THAT....that will not do and I will not abide.


Likewise, if you hate a fighter's style and another fighter who doesn't set the world alight with his performance wins.....then the cheering and mocking and gloating should be kept on mute. It's one thing to have a champion sparked out completely, it's another thing to have a champion under perform and I mean REALLY under perform and the challenger just show up and win in a lackluster fight......people have given Wlad and myself for being a fan of his, PLENTY of stick.....I don't mind so long as it's intellectually honest and there are no "yeah but" arguments about it.


So if Fury continues to fight the rest of his career as he has prior to this fight with Wladimir.....I expect to see certain people front and center in berating his performances. Fair is fair

It was a compliment, Lyle.

But anyway, I did not understand Word One of your 2nd paragraph. Maybe you can reword it so I know who and what you're referring to. On your 4th paragraph, I guess we'll disagree on that. I've gloated like there's no tomorrow, not because I think Fury is the best thing since sliced bread, but because since the beginning I've been very outspoken about how Wlad fights like he's scared sh*tless, and we only needed the right opponent for Wlad to prove me right 3,000 percent. So mocking and gloating is not only the logical reaction..... in my book it's pretty much required.

About Fury's future? I've already answered that question. Any man who holds the HW championship and fights like Wlad did, scared sh*tless, will get berated by me. I don't care what his name is. You'll hear my.... what was it..... droning whining.

Ooooooh it was a compliment. Well thank you, I'm humbled.

Wouldn't be the first time you act like an ass when I'm trying to reach out.