The definitive Mayweather/Pac article

[Greig]

Hauser excels himself yet again. The man tells it like it is


Boxing - Thomas Hauser - Mayweather-Pacquiao, PEDs, and Boxing


"Golden Boy can take the lead on the issue of PEDs in boxing and become a beacon of integrity by requiring its fighters to submit to Olympic-style drug testing before each major fight. And in order to fight on a Golden Boy card (remember; Golden Boy has a lot of dates on HBO), it could require opponents to do the same.

In fact, Golden Boy could start by testing Shane Mosley to protect Shane from unknowingly using PEDs again. It’s interesting how Shane looked very old when he fought Ricardo Mayorga in 2008 and then improved with age when he fought Antonio Margarito in 2009.

And speaking of age; let’s have a round of applause for another Golden Boy fighter; Bernard Hopkins. People talk a lot about what great shape Bernard is in and how remarkable it is that a fighter well into his forties can perform the way he does.

I consider Hopkins a great fighter. Other fighters have moved up in weight and excelled in the manner of Manny Pacquiao. But there is no precedent for a fighter performing as agelessly as Bernard has. I’m aware of no proof whatsoever that Hopkins has used illegal performance enhancing drugs at any time in his career. Of course, to my knowledge, Bernard hasn’t undergone USADA testing.

WBA heavyweight champion David Haye is another Golden Boy fighter. David was a cruiserweight less than two years ago. His body has filled out nicely since then. Very nicely. Now Haye wants to fight Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko. Vitali tested positive for a banned substance while training for the 1996 Olympics and was removed from the Ukrainian national team. He later acknowledged using steroids, saying that he had done so after aggravating an old leg injury previously sustained during a kick-boxing bout. Wladimir’s body is even more imposing than Vitali’s.

If Haye fights one of the Klitschko brothers, a Golden Boy-implemented USADA-like testing plan would assure the world that everything is on the up and up.

Will Golden Boy take the lead in across-the-board PED testing?

My guess is that there’s a better chance of Tiger Woods becoming Pope."

[TheBranMan]

As I said on the other thread: it's merely a spin article to make everything rosy concerning allegations against Pacquiao. It's clears up nothing. Ariza says Pacquiao's just superstitious (surprise, surprise... I wait I thought he was scarred of needles ), Nevada State Athletic Commission doctors state not much is known about steroids... and goes on to talk about how Pacquiao is boxing's golden child while Mayweather is fights nobody. Discredits De la Hoya's opinion regarding his encouragement for Manny to take the tests.... etc, etc, etc. An article that pretends to have no bias involved but it's obviously there. A long read too, I won't recommend it.

[Jimmy G-Force]

Hauser excels himself yet again. The man tells it like it is


Boxing - Thomas Hauser - Mayweather-Pacquiao, PEDs, and Boxing


"Golden Boy can take the lead on the issue of PEDs in boxing and become a beacon of integrity by requiring its fighters to submit to Olympic-style drug testing before each major fight. And in order to fight on a Golden Boy card (remember; Golden Boy has a lot of dates on HBO), it could require opponents to do the same.

In fact, Golden Boy could start by testing Shane Mosley to protect Shane from unknowingly using PEDs again. It’s interesting how Shane looked very old when he fought Ricardo Mayorga in 2008 and then improved with age when he fought Antonio Margarito in 2009.

And speaking of age; let’s have a round of applause for another Golden Boy fighter; Bernard Hopkins. People talk a lot about what great shape Bernard is in and how remarkable it is that a fighter well into his forties can perform the way he does.

I consider Hopkins a great fighter. Other fighters have moved up in weight and excelled in the manner of Manny Pacquiao. But there is no precedent for a fighter performing as agelessly as Bernard has. I’m aware of no proof whatsoever that Hopkins has used illegal performance enhancing drugs at any time in his career. Of course, to my knowledge, Bernard hasn’t undergone USADA testing.

WBA heavyweight champion David Haye is another Golden Boy fighter. David was a cruiserweight less than two years ago. His body has filled out nicely since then. Very nicely. Now Haye wants to fight Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko. Vitali tested positive for a banned substance while training for the 1996 Olympics and was removed from the Ukrainian national team. He later acknowledged using steroids, saying that he had done so after aggravating an old leg injury previously sustained during a kick-boxing bout. Wladimir’s body is even more imposing than Vitali’s.

If Haye fights one of the Klitschko brothers, a Golden Boy-implemented USADA-like testing plan would assure the world that everything is on the up and up.

Will Golden Boy take the lead in across-the-board PED testing?

My guess is that there’s a better chance of Tiger Woods becoming Pope."

Great article that, long, but well worth the read. Unless of course your on the 'Pacman is a definate cheat, and I know because I'm an obsessed internet bumboy' Bandwagon.

[Fenster]

Great article.

Personally I think Manny should be able to accept any drug test. But that really highlights the hypocrisy of Golden Boy and just what Mayweather's motives were for causing such a stink. Did he really want the fight?

[JJson]

I disagree with the premise laid down in the peace. It sounds balanced, but it is in keeping with the trend of spots writers who hate PBF to the extent that they would like to see him risk his life and well being in order to sate their thirst for him to get his comeuppance. If Pacman had made the demand for hard testing, the opinions and views of these writers would be the complete reverse of what they are are today.

There is a biblical saying that goes, "Thou mayest conceal they sin by cunning art, but consciennce sits a silent witness in thine heart, that will distrub thy rest, they peace undo, because it is a judge, jury, and a prison too". The sports writers that are prepared to sacrfice the uplifting of the standard in drug testing in boxing to their deep and visceral craving to see Floyd Mayweather get beat up by any means necessary, have already entered that prison. I will not allow them to insult my intelligence with their circumlocutory ramblings. Floyd Mayweather asked Manny to join him in exposing themselves to a higher standard of testing before a fight. Manny said no way. How the hell, under those circumstances can Mayweather be blamed for the fight not coming off?

When USADA accused Marion Jones of using PEDs, she filed a lawsuit against them. The sport writers did not condemn USADA for depriving fans of seeing a good race. Should the US be accused of endangering global harmony and interaction by demanding higher democratic standards from nations prior to their involvement in some multinational activities? The US took that position with regard to the UN security council membership. You know what was the reaction of some of her critics? They responded that the US should demand those changes from some of her trade pardners if she really cared about democracy. Sounds familiar?

[zbolt]

think about this, under the present normal boxing commission rules, the floyd-pacquiao could have already been made then why it's not being made?

[Greig]

I think the article is balanced - yes it may make Mayweather/Schaffer/Oscar look bad, but I don't think Manny comes out of it looking great either.

Most shocking for me seems to be just how rife the problem is.

The last few paragraphs are very interesting - seems to be he's been tipped off that Oscar has tested positive to something and has his NSAC records buried somewhere...


To be honest, it's a great article - but the whole sport of boxing comes out of it smelling a bit off.

To me, it merely highlights the blatant double standards at work here - and I think it shows that Floyd did not want the fight. Ellerbee and Mayweather used Golden Boy as puppets here - it's obvious that Schafer has no problem with the drug testing protocols as they are ("The commission testing is fine..." in relation to the Mosley fight) but now they went out on a limb for Mayweather and now there is no going back...


But yeah, how come Berto isn't asking Shane be tested? How come Ornelas didn't make Hopkins give blood the day before their fight? Valuev should have asked for Haye to give blood...?

Golden Boy is becoming the preeminent force in boxing today. I never thought I'd say this because I was all infavour of them when they started, but we need Top Rank and Main Events and others to stay around because Golden Boy are becoming a little bit like the Empire in Star Wars. Just not sure whether Schafer or Oscar is the Emperor, and which one is Vader yet...

[miron_lang]

Great article. All claims are backed by solid data .

Al Berstein and Thomas Hauser are two great boxing Journalist

[Greig]

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

[miron_lang]

Agree with you totally Miron - guys like Bernstein, Hauser, Mike Katz and George Kimball are people that boxing NEEDS.

Fantastic writers, and in Al's case broadcaster as well.

That's (Article) the complete picture IMO. He didn't insinuate in any way that Pac is innocent but made some examples of fighters with names and date's and their cases with prohibited substances.

I think he feels that he needs to add the many errors that GBP made during the negotiation, Oscar and Schaeffer made some very elementary mistakes, Cant they remember what they said just a few months ago? and totally look moronic making statements that is the complete opposite of what they said just a few months prior.


I just wish some of the guys can write as good as Bernstein and Hauser.

for the thread Greig

[Greig]

Thanks Miron.

I haven't seen the cool click smiley in years!!

[amat]

It's an interesting viewpoint but let's not forget that Hauser has shown a propensity for dislike against Golden Boy in the past. The Judah-Mosley piece was interesting but I believe that was all Jin Mosley's fault. A Mosley-Mayweather matchup may be a little trying as far as how the testing goes.

[blegit]

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not fair or balanced. Both parties made bad statements that bit them later. Freddie Roach made a number of statements as to why Pac didn't like needles, blood drawn, etc and later shown to be apparently inaccurate. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and mostly top fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Achieving more than whats been done before in light of this being the steroid era. Thats where the speculation comes from. When Barry Bonds did what never had been done before by hitting 73 HRs,in the steroid era, if you weren't a die hard fan of Bonds you soon became suspicious. Why not? He ousted everyone even steroid cheats. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there speculation of Pac and since Pac will not accept the random blood tests no one can say he is proven clean. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

[generalbulldog]

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not neutral. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and better fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Thats where the speculation comes from. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there specualtion or their defending of Pac. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

Dude man give it up, you saying youre a Pac fan is like saying Bruce Lee is a Floyd fan. Almost all of your posts are about Floyd or something to do with 1 of FLoyd's prospective opponents. You ain't a boxing fan. But a fan of one fighter.
Back to the topic at hand. Since people are trying to discredit the writer. This guy is a pulitzer prize nominated writer, he ain't no nuthugger of anyone. The article is also very well researched. It's a neutral article. Just because it does not conform to your views, doesn't mean it's a shitty article or a shitty writer.

[blegit]

After reading this very long article I'll just go over a couple of things. First off, I am a Pac fan but I like boxing better than any fighter and I like the truth better than boxing. So I truly keep it real as far as I see. With that said, this article was not neutral. I am not condemning Pac and what he is doing can, and I hope, be truly natural. But as I bicker with fellow boxing fans I do not get offended for them thinking what they think because Pac is not exactly doing typical things since moving up. The author states what Pac is doing has been done before. Really? Maybe, but who are these fighters who did this before? Pac is the only fighter in boxing history to become world champ in 7 weight classes. In Pac's 5 fights before he started moving up in several weight classes he KO'd 2 of 5 opponents. Since Pac moved in 3 different weight classes in just 4 fights he has KO'd every opponent. 4 of 4. Pac has gotten stronger p4p and quicker since moving up. Even his conditioning coach states the quicker part. Its not the fact that Pac is beating the top guys at different weight classes but how he is doing it. He basically lost maybe 2 or 3 rounds in his 4 fights against bigger and better fighters. Pac may be completely clean but it is asinine to think people are wrong for thinking otherwise. Clean, done before, or not what Pac is doing is at the very least almost never done. Even ousting proven steroid cheats. Thats where the speculation comes from. The author also states what BHop is doing has never been done. WRONG. George Foreman. Since BHop has been 40 he has gone 4-3. Nothing exhilarating. George Foreman turned 40 and went 17-3. Not to mention going 9-0 as a 39 year old after coming off a 10 year retirement. None of this proves anybody is right in there specualtion or their defending of Pac. But this article definitely has a purpose of defending Pac and at the very least using misleading statements to do so.

Dude man give it up, you saying youre a Pac fan is like saying Bruce Lee is a Floyd fan. Almost all of your posts are about Floyd or something to do with 1 of FLoyd's prospective opponents. You ain't a boxing fan. But a fan of one fighter.
Back to the topic at hand. Since people are trying to discredit the writer. This guy is a pulitzer prize nominated writer, he ain't no nuthugger of anyone. The article is also very well researched. It's a neutral article. Just because it does not conform to your views, doesn't mean it's a shitty article or a shitty writer.

Give what up? The truth? Speak intelligently about what I wrote. What did I say that was wrong? Lets break it down. I never said it was a shitty article or discredit the author's background. And it doesn't matter what a writer wins they are still human and susceptible to being wrong or partial. Be real. I am a Pac fan as I am of many fighters. I don't like Mayweather's act but I am merely a fan who doesn't know either guy. I am actually one of the guys who bashes Mayweather for his cherrypicking in the welterweight division and I get beat up by the Floyd die hards for pointing out facts. And Bruce Lee actually sided with Floyd on the testing situation. The only thing I have said bad towards Pac is about the testing situation and thats because die hard fans refuse to accept any wrong about Pac and go straight at bashing Mayweather. If you side with the truth its hard to sound like a Pac fan on here because everyone acts like he is God and PBF is the devil. One thing that gets me is some people think just because you are a fan of a fighter it means you have to ignore the truth of that fighter. I talk about Mayweather and I'm called a hater. I talk about Pac and now I'm not a fan. Hilarious. Well, I put boxing before any fighter's nuts. The sport has been my life since I was a kid. I pointed out what this writer was wrong about(BHop's and Pac's accomplishments) and backed it up with facts. Debate that. Not if I'm a fan of Pac. Are you a fan of Pac? Be honest, do you think he is wrong about anything in the Pac/PBF debacle? Both sides blew that fight for the fans its not just Mayweather's fault. Not a boxing fan Laughable. What you meant to say is I'm not a Pac nuthugger. I have been boxing, training, and coaching boxing accumulatively for over 21 years now. I guess I do that because I'm a Floyd fan and not a boxing fan.