sugar ray robinson vs roy jones jr

**Master** · 09-03-2021 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

James Toney IMO was RJJ's best defensive opponent, but with little discipline and weight drained...RJJ also knew Toney had balooned up..he knew when to pick JT at the right time.

Roy Jones Jnr would have beaten any version of Toney. Roy did not pick a rusty or fat Toney, James lack of discipline should not take away from Jones beating one of the best p4p at the time.

**SlimTrae** · 09-03-2021 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

James Toney IMO was RJJ's best defensive opponent, but with little discipline and weight drained...RJJ also knew Toney had balooned up..he knew when to pick JT at the right time.

Roy Jones Jnr would have beaten any version of Toney. Roy did not pick a rusty or fat Toney, James lack of discipline should not take away from Jones beating one of the best p4p at the time.

I can't disagree. I would have picked him regardless, too!
I could have worded that last sentence a bit different. I just remember an interview on his upcoming bout with Toney and he mentioned Toney's weight gain...so he knew that would favor him all the more.

**mrbig1** · 09-06-2021 03:26 PM

Jones fought Richard Fraizer who was a full time New York police man. He fought another guy who I forgot his name but worked full time on a trash truck. How are these people getting title fights? Easy Jones was a big money maker for HBO. So HBO put him in with fighters who are not even good enough to get on ESPN. He had skill There's no doubt about that. He just didn't fight the best out there. That's how fighters become great.

**Master** · 09-06-2021 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by mrbig1

Jones fought Richard Fraizer who was a full time New York police man. He fought another guy who I forgot his name but worked full time on a trash truck. How are these people getting title fights? Easy Jones was a big money maker for HBO. So HBO put him in with fighters who are not even good enough to get on ESPN. He had skill There's no doubt about that. He just didn't fight the best out there. That's how fighters become great.

Chris Eubanks did the same with his Sky contract and fought a postmen. Roy would have smashed up Eubank who had lost his appetite for taking on the best fighters after what happened against Watson. Nigel Benn was finished after his war with the G Man. The Brits preferred to make money in UK only Nigel Benn went to the USA to pick up a WBO title and defend it in UK. They did not want any part of Roy Jones.

The German light heavyweight also preferred to make money in his home country so they were all at it. Not just Roy and his HBO contract.

**mrbig1** · 09-06-2021 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by mrbig1

Jones fought Richard Fraizer who was a full time New York police man. He fought another guy who I forgot his name but worked full time on a trash truck. How are these people getting title fights? Easy Jones was a big money maker for HBO. So HBO put him in with fighters who are not even good enough to get on ESPN. He had skill There's no doubt about that. He just didn't fight the best out there. That's how fighters become great.

Chris Eubanks did the same with his Sky contract and fought a postmen. Roy would have smashed up Eubank who had lost his appetite for taking on the best fighters after what happened against Watson. Nigel Benn was finished after his war with the G Man. The Brits preferred to make money in UK only Nigel Benn went to the USA to pick up a WBO title and defend it in UK. They did not want any part of Roy Jones.

The German light heavyweight also preferred to make money in his home country so they were all at it. Not just Roy and his HBO contract.

I agree 100% but you have to beat other great fighters to be great. He hasn't done that. James Toney fought the best fighters in the world again and again. Now I know Jones has a win over Toney. Beating Joe Louis doesn't make you Joe Louis.

**Master** · 09-08-2021 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by mrbig1

Originally Posted by Master

Originally Posted by mrbig1

Jones fought Richard Fraizer who was a full time New York police man. He fought another guy who I forgot his name but worked full time on a trash truck. How are these people getting title fights? Easy Jones was a big money maker for HBO. So HBO put him in with fighters who are not even good enough to get on ESPN. He had skill There's no doubt about that. He just didn't fight the best out there. That's how fighters become great.

Chris Eubanks did the same with his Sky contract and fought a postmen. Roy would have smashed up Eubank who had lost his appetite for taking on the best fighters after what happened against Watson. Nigel Benn was finished after his war with the G Man. The Brits preferred to make money in UK only Nigel Benn went to the USA to pick up a WBO title and defend it in UK. They did not want any part of Roy Jones.

The German light heavyweight also preferred to make money in his home country so they were all at it. Not just Roy and his HBO contract.

I agree 100% but you have to beat other great fighters to be great. He hasn't done that. James Toney fought the best fighters in the world again and again. Now I know Jones has a win over Toney. Beating Joe Louis doesn't make you Joe Louis.

In truth, if you do not give credit to Roy for beating Hopkins and Toney, you will never accept that Jones was a great fighter even if he had beaten Benn, Eubank and Dariusz Michalczewski in their own countries.

**mrbig1** · 09-08-2021 05:05 PM

No if he beat these fighters I would give him all the credit in the world. The point is he didn't. To show you how low down HBO is. James Toney is calling for a rematch with Jones. So HBO puts Toney in with Montel Griffin. toney won the fight but they gave it to Griffin. In the rematch Toney clearly won and Once again they gave to Griffin. Jones was HBO Golden Goose.

**Master** · 09-08-2021 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by mrbig1

No if he beat these fighters I would give him all the credit in the world. The point is he didn't. To show you how low down HBO is. James Toney is calling for a rematch with Jones. So HBO puts Toney in with Montel Griffin. toney won the fight but they gave it to Griffin. In the rematch Toney clearly won and Once again they gave to Griffin. Jones was HBO Golden Goose.

If that HBO conspiracy was true, which it is not, then giving James Toney the decision against Griffin because he was the bigger star would have made more financial sense.

Also they robbed Roy Jones when he clearly beat Montel who faked his own knockout.

**SlimTrae** · 09-10-2021 01:14 AM

I take issues with RJJ as well on those who he didn't fight.

Where it all ends is that any of those fighters could have also come here to challenge him. He was the one to be called out- not for him to call out.

The hardest part to swallow is knowing if any of those fight had occurred, RJJ would have been favorite to beat them all, making little sense as to why not just go over there and befuddle them with power and speed.

I think as far as the mythical matchup both fighters at some point would have dared to be great. And since Ray had that 1 hitter quitter I think Ray drops Roy harder than Lou Duvalle did. Considering RJJ's corner was partially at fault for that- drenched his corner causing him to slip right at impact. Ray needs no water.

Also considering that if he came in the same weight as per Hopkinds 159 1/2...there really is no size advantage for Roy. I just learned height wise Ray was at best 1/2 inch shorter thats it.
And no way does Ray land those blistering combos without Roy retaliating. Chess mess 1st 1/2 of the fights with fireworks every other round. I think Roy's potshotting befuddles Ray, but Ray evens the score with maybe 2 kds if not a come from behind KO.