Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?

[p4pking]

Hahaha, rats coming back to the ship in this thread I'll have to root for Rios if Rains and Pavlik start posting on the main boards again

[p4pking]

Marquez approached the 4th fight much differently than the first 3, is the thing. He really was flat footed and selling out for single shots, this could've backfired on him and in my opinion was until he landed the KO punch, people forget what a dominant round that had been for Manny until then, perhaps Maybe Marquez knew he wouldn't be able to fight 12 at the pace they had prior, he is ancient for his size after all. Would anyone have even been talking about steroids if Manny had not gotten careless and ground Marquez out over the next few rounds? Easily could've happened if you ask me, JMM did not intend for that fight to go the distance one way or another. Neither man had taken nearly as much damage by the 6th round in any of their first 3 encounters, listening to these lucky punch idiots you'd think Marquez just breezed through it all.

[ykdadamaja]

I believe he did, He had a trainer for that fight that was known for it. Plus, His punches sounded hella different and his body as well. A Simple Yes or No.

YES!! You would have to be blind to not notice that...

[ykdadamaja]

Here's a homework assignment for anyone who doesn't feel that these guys should be suspected of PEDs.

Go on a bodybuilding forum and tell them you want to put on 15lbs of muscle, but you're not interested in using steroids or anything like that. You'll get a wealth of suggestions and tips.

Among those tips, you will NOT find "run X miles a day". You won't find "start jumping rope" or "start doing wind sprints".

Why? Because endurance training (which is a LARGE part of what boxing trailing entails) is not conducive to bulking up. It is totally counter-productive. When a bodybuilder is bulking up, he eats a ton, he lifts heavy weights for low reps, and he makes sure to get lots of rest and sleep. He doesn't do a ton of roadwork and endurance-building activity.

So when you see a guy, out of the blue, suddenly bulk up 10, 15, 20lbs while maintaining the incredible aerobic training schedule that a boxing camp entails, that's suspect. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not normal.

Finally! Someone who knows something!!!

[Beanz]

Here's a homework assignment for anyone who doesn't feel that these guys should be suspected of PEDs.

Go on a bodybuilding forum and tell them you want to put on 15lbs of muscle, but you're not interested in using steroids or anything like that. You'll get a wealth of suggestions and tips.

Among those tips, you will NOT find "run X miles a day". You won't find "start jumping rope" or "start doing wind sprints".

Why? Because endurance training (which is a LARGE part of what boxing trailing entails) is not conducive to bulking up. It is totally counter-productive. When a bodybuilder is bulking up, he eats a ton, he lifts heavy weights for low reps, and he makes sure to get lots of rest and sleep. He doesn't do a ton of roadwork and endurance-building activity.

So when you see a guy, out of the blue, suddenly bulk up 10, 15, 20lbs while maintaining the incredible aerobic training schedule that a boxing camp entails, that's suspect. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not normal.

Finally! Someone who knows something!!!

No he doesn't. Marquez put on 1 lb of muscle. 1 not 15.

[Beanflicker]

No he doesn't. Marquez put on 1 lb of muscle. 1 not 15.

How do you know that he just put on 1lb of muscle?

And what I said still applies to putting on 1lb of muscle, ESPECIALLY when you're nearly 40 years old.

[Beanflicker]

the only thing that is shocking is for the past 3 fights they had, jmm was never close to knocking pac down even when he lands squarely on Pac. then all of a sudden in their 4th fight he could suddenly hurt and even knock Pac out.

JMM never hit Pac with a punch as clean and hard as the KO blow in any of their previous fights. Also, add to the fact that Pac was coming forward and walking into it.

It was a perfect punch.

Also, consider that there exists NO EVIDENCE that PED's improve punching power to any relevant degree.

[Beanz]

No he doesn't. Marquez put on 1 lb of muscle. 1 not 15.

How do you know that he just put on 1lb of muscle?

And what I said still applies to putting on 1lb of muscle, ESPECIALLY when you're nearly 40 years old.

Where do you get 10,15,20lbs of muscle is the question?

[AdamGB]

God knows, usually when a fighter moves up a few weight classes the main thing that they do is to STOP HAVING TO LOSE SO MUCH WATER WEIGHT BEFORE THE WEIGH IN.

Gaining muscle is only a small part of it... why does everybody take a fighter's weigh in day weight as their walking around weight, or even their fighting weight?



I remember when my boxing club did a 24 hour charity boxing circuit, I was 12lbs lighter by the end of it, 48 hours later and I was only 1lb lighter, because I'd almost fully rehydrated.

So if I do it again, but this time for 12 hours and I only dry up by 6lbs, I'm heavier and I must have taken steroids, right?

[Beanflicker]

Where did I say JMM put on 15lbs of muscle? That was a hypothetical.

What I said applies to the gaining of ANY muscle, whether we're talking 0.5lbs or 50lbs.

It is incredibly hard to pack any muscle on your body when you are undergoing insane cardio day in, day out. That is a fact. It's not debatable.

It is also incredibly hard to do it when you are damn near 40 years old. Our testosterone levels start to drop in our early 30s, sometimes even mid to late 20s. An athlete being physically superior in his late 30's/early 40's than he was in his mid 20's/early 30's is something that was completely unheard of before PED's became commonplace.

So for JMM to put on that much muscle (I gaurentee you it was more than 1lb, but that's a moot point) is NOT NORMAL. It DEFIES SCIENCE. It's not a question of hard work. It's a question of science, and the limitation of the human body.

I'm not saying he's necessarily even taking illegal PED's.

Are you aware of testosterone replacement therapy? That's 100% legal.

[IamInuit]

No he doesn't. Marquez put on 1 lb of muscle. 1 not 15.

How do you know that he just put on 1lb of muscle?

And what I said still applies to putting on 1lb of muscle, ESPECIALLY when you're nearly 40 years old.

He weighed a pound more at the weigh in. He's not shedding muscle to make weight. Shit he was 4 pounds under the limit.

[Beanflicker]

He weighed a pound more at the weigh in. He's not shedding muscle to make weight. Shit he was 4 pounds under the limit.

Yeah but that assumes he maintained the exact same musculature as before. He noticablely dropped some fat from his physique and obviously replaced the weight with muscle. I never said he put on 15-20lbs of muscle, but it was visibly more than 1lb.

To look at it in a "143 - 142 = 1lb" sense is oversimplifying it.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that putting on a few lbs of muscle alone makes me suspicious. I'm suspicious of any 40 year old who looks as good or better than he did when he was 30.

And again, I'm not even saying I think he's doing it in an illegal way. Testosterone replacement therapy is 100% legal as long as it is doctor perscribed and declared to the commision. And since it's a medical thing, it doesn't get released to the public. I think you guys would be shocked at how many guys are utilizing this.

And again, I want to clarify that in no way do I think that Marquez's win was caused by PEDs, if he indeed is taking them, and I'm equally as suspicious of Manny. Pacquaio got caught by a perfect KO punch and got put to sleep.

[IamInuit]

He weighed a pound more at the weigh in. He's not shedding muscle to make weight. Shit he was 4 pounds under the limit.

Yeah but that assumes he maintained the exact same musculature as before. He noticablely dropped some fat from his physique and obviously replaced the weight with muscle. I never said he put on 15-20lbs of muscle, but it was visibly more than 1lb.

To look at it in a "143 - 142 = 1lb" sense is oversimplifying it.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that putting on a few lbs of muscle alone makes me suspicious. I'm suspicious of any 40 year old who looks as good or better than he did when he was 30.

And again, I'm not even saying I think he's doing it in an illegal way. Testosterone replacement therapy is 100% legal as long as it is doctor perscribed and declared to the commision. And since it's a medical thing, it doesn't get released to the public. I think you guys would be shocked at how many guys are utilizing this.

And again, I want to clarify that in no way do I think that Marquez's win was caused by PEDs, if he indeed is taking them, and I'm equally as suspicious of Manny. Pacquaio got caught by a perfect KO punch and got put to sleep.

I hear ya and I'm not saying he's not. If he is they are designer and most likely synthesized from his own piss j/k. The Manniacs just cant come to grips with Manny looking like a sheet of plywood when it was only a matter of time that he would be perfectly timed by the second best counter puncher on the planet.

[Kirkland Laing]

Marquez is a career featherweight.

From young adulthood, say 18 years old to about 28-30 years old you fill out a bit. Boxers ut on a few more pounds over those years, move up in weight and so on.

Marquez was a featherweight until he was 32. He had one or two fights at 130 one at 135 and then made 143 to fight Floyd. At the weigh-in for Floyd he looked bloated and out of shape, like Duran looked when he moved up to welterweight. His next fight he made 133 and could probably have easily still made 130.

The exact same weight and strength training methods existed as exist today when he fought Floyd but there's a night and day difference in how he looked then and how he looks now. So much difference that there was enormous scepticism in the boxing press and the boxing industry that the change in physique at nearly 40 years of age was down to legal methods.


Marquez will tell you that it's all down to "hard work in the gym" which is the mantra of every steroid cheat of the PED era. The guy who is his strength and conditioning coach has zero qualifications as a strength and conditioning coach but has been convicted of producing and supplying various steroids and PEDs to Olympic athletes for years. He was one of the top PED guys in the world till he got caught. It was inevitable that a guy like this would eventually gravitate to boxing.

The Olympic Dealer [interview with Ángel Heredia] – BoxingSocialist.com

[IamInuit]

Marquez is a career featherweight.

From young adulthood, say 18 years old to about 28-30 years old you fill out a bit. Boxers ut on a few more pounds over those years, move up in weight and so on.

Marquez was a featherweight until he was 32. He had one or two fights at 130 one at 135 and then made 143 to fight Floyd. At the weigh-in for Floyd he looked bloated and out of shape, like Duran looked when he moved up to welterweight. His next fight he made 133 and could probably have easily still made 130.

The exact same weight and strength training methods existed as exist today when he fought Floyd but there's a night and day difference in how he looked then and how he looks now. So much difference that there was enormous scepticism in the boxing press and the boxing industry that the change in physique at nearly 40 years of age was down to legal methods.


Marquez will tell you that it's all down to "hard work in the gym" which is the mantra of every steroid cheat of the PED era. The guy who is his strength and conditioning coach has zero qualifications as a strength and conditioning coach but has been convicted of producing and supplying various steroids and PEDs to Olympic athletes for years. He was one of the top PED guys in the world till he got caught. It was inevitable that a guy like this would eventually gravitate to boxing.

The Olympic Dealer [interview with �ngel Heredia] – BoxingSocialist.com

Great post and let me just say that I think they are all cheating at the highest level or at least the vast majority thereby making it an even playing field meaning cheating cannot be used as a reason for losing. Until the powers at be take their collective heads out of their collective asses to curb its use that statusquo remains. They most likely don't want to. Juice is responsible for to many highlight reels.

Thing is @Kirkland Laing that's not evidence. Its guilt by association. Not only that, I think its safe to assume that every sports nutritionist on the planet knows Peds and how to use them. If Marquez wanted to cheat he didn't need to hire Heredia of all people. There are some pretty hard core supplements out and about that are over the counter. For guys like him that work out for a living the effects on a body type such as his could be or at least appear to be pretty dramatic.

His opponent was probably a career junior featherweight and managed to accomplish something that has never been done in over a hundred years coming all the way from 106.Carpentier started at fly and ended at hev but never destroyed opponents on the way up. Many of the people who defended Manny are now the biggest finger pointers at Marquez.

One of Marquez's biggest changes in his approach to this fight was its desired conclusion. He wanted a short fight and based his training around it. In fact the muscle build up was well on its way in the third fight. He had already lost 3 marathons including at least 1 that many thought he clearly won. He was going to take it out of the hands of the judges come hell or high water and he did.

Reasonable people who can remain objective will acknowledge the empirical footprint that led to the knockout and yet not the knockout itself. I simply cannot get my head around that. It contradicts the previous acknowledgement.