Starr...you're making stuff up. I'm a Warriors fan and Lebron fan after that and I know for a fact that his real idol and mentor was MJ. And his "mentor" is Iverson because of his time on the Olympic team with him.Originally Posted by Starr
Starr...you're making stuff up. I'm a Warriors fan and Lebron fan after that and I know for a fact that his real idol and mentor was MJ. And his "mentor" is Iverson because of his time on the Olympic team with him.Originally Posted by Starr
Actually. LeBron has been on record saying that Kobe was one of his idols and is a mentor of him. So apparently you haven't heard everything
Wanna show me a link to this? I would REALLY like to see this.Originally Posted by Starr
Kobe's better as of right now at certian things, but he doesn't have what is going to make Lebron the best ever... Kobe hasn't possessed the composure, the ability to see a play before it happens the way Labron does, and thats why Labron could easily become the best player ever while Kobe will just be a Jordan wannabe despite being among the best ever already.
Hmm. That's funny, because I could swear that the most talented teammate he ever had, as well as his former and now once-again coach said that he was a selfish, "uncoachable" asshole. As did every all-star veteran who joined the Lakers for Shaq's last year there (repeatedly stating that they came to play with Shaq, not with Kobe).Originally Posted by Starr
You are only proving my point. When Kobe plays like a team player (rarely), the Lakers can win. He's a selfish prick though, and can't help himself. The Lakers were up 3-1, and Kobe had only been the Lakers' leading scorer in one of those victories (as well as in the loss). Kobe was the Lakers' leading scorer for the remainder of the series, and THEY LOST EVERY SINGLE REMAINING GAME (including the game where kobe went for 50). Just to make this clear: in ALL FOUR of the lakers losses, kobe was the lakers' leading scorer. Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.Originally Posted by Starr
and better than anyone lebron's got. and if you want to throw up larry hughes, please remember that lebron's led the cavs over THE BEST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE without hughes for three games straight.Originally Posted by Starr
Originally Posted by Starr
Originally Posted by Starr
yep, that's oneOriginally Posted by Starr
Originally Posted by Starr
How old was Dennis when he got to Chicago--like 40? Throw in the rockstar lifestyle at that point, and don't get me wrong--he wasn't bad, but don't go throwing up Detroit stats like it's the same player we're talking about. He also obviously wasn't on the team for the first three titles.Originally Posted by Starr
You're just as bad with the basketball anaylsis as you are with the boxing, huh? You're totally missing the point. A player like Jordan has the leadership and intangibles to make schmucks like Ron Harper look like a "natural starter" to you. He'd make Smush Parker and Luke Walton look just as good if he were in Kobe's place.Originally Posted by Starr
It'll happen soon enough. He's got the first part of it done already (with more votes than anyone else in the NBA this year)--something Kobe never did at his age. But I thought that was all "hype and politics" anyway, Starr?Originally Posted by Starr
I only red as far as the uncoachable. Because with that statement I know you haven't read the book at all but you just listened to what the media said. I read the book so... there's more to it then that and more to what Phil said that the media didn't quoteOriginally Posted by SecondRoundKO
And I stopped believing Shaq when he did the same thing with Penny Hardaway, he said the same kind of stuff too
And yet he only shot 3 times in the 2nd half.. hmm.. yea a ballhog
Bottom line: Kobe is an incorrigible ball hog and it hurts his team. You'd think he would have learned by now.
You just take all what the media says and already have an opinion on Kobe. whatever I'm not gonna spend the next 30 minutes here proving you wrong. I won't waste my time. You think what you think, I'll think what I think.
And one other thing. Kobe only went for 50 WHEN HE WAS TRYING TO BRING HIS TEAM BACK FROM 20 DOWN WHEN NO ONE ELSE WAS MAKING SHOTS!!!!
No, I watch the game. And you don't pay any attention to what I'm saying. Or supply any relevant counterarguments. Look at the stats, Starr, I cited them for you. Kobe was the Lakers' highest scorer in 5 out of the 7 games against the Suns. They lost four of those five games. They do pretty well when he's not the highest scorer (i.e., plays unselfishly). Unfortunately, he's congenitally unable to do that for 4 games out of a 7 game series--his loss.Originally Posted by Starr
If you watched the game you'd notice that Kobe only tried to start scoring when they were down by about 15 and he HAD to score because he was giving passes which people were fumbling or were missing easy set up shots he gave them
Yes, his teammates are unconfident because he doesn't inspire confidence in them. Great players do that--they make others around them better.Originally Posted by Starr
OH COME ON NOW!!!! Don't start that they couldn;t make the shots because he doesn't inspire confidence that's BULLSHIT!
They punked up! Kwame punked up, Lamae punked up, Smush punked up, everybody punked up!!!! He'd been getting them involved and after gave 4 he kept trying to keep them involved and all of a sudden Kwame can't catch a pass and Lamar can't make a lay up. They punked up. And thats not a fault of Kobe.
And who did Jordan ever make a better individual player Kerr and Harper, and Rodman and Pippen were already good.
Name someone Jordan made better that weren't good already and a natural starter
Jordan already had the talent on his team and with his skill found ways to use it for the entire teams advantage
but who did he make better
Starr are you serious? Please, oh my God. Scottie Pippen was a SOLID player, NO DOUBT. But do you think...by any conceivable stretch of the imagination that there would be any way he would be one of the NBA's top 50 All Time players without Jordan? NO. That's the answer and it speaks volumes that you are even talking like this. Tony Kukoc, hell I can't even spell his name but under Jordan he was a premeir NBA player. I don't beleive you just said that. I hate to say it but you're credibility on this issue is going down like crazy. That's unbeleivable. Seriously there are no words for saying Jordan didn't make any of his teammates better. To say I expected better would be an understatement of epic proportions. Wow.Originally Posted by Starr
I don't think that at all. I think that they worked well together and formed a chemistry that work and made each other more consistant and made each other better.
I compare them to Stockton and Malone, they wouldn't be one without the other.
It all comes down to team chemistry as well. It's not just an individual effort to make another individual player. it's a team that becomes better AS A TEAM! And no they wouldn't have had that without MJ. But thats not what I asked
I will also say that Jordan was never Jordan until those teammates was he
Michael Jordan didn't become MICHAEL JORDAN until about 7 years in the league
I don't think you get what I'm saying but not many people do
I can let you take that back now if you want. Cuz out of all the wrong things you've said, that's easily the wrongest, both in the abstract and in the particulars.Originally Posted by Starr
Jordan made every single player on those Bulls teams better than they ever were before (except Rodman) or would ever be again, or would have been without him--and that definitely includes Pippen. Your categorization of Ron Harper and Steve Kerr as "natural starters" is no less ridiculous now that the last time you said it. How about clumsy old Bill Cartwright--was he a "natural starter" as well? Did Jordan not make him better than he would have been. BJ Armstrong--natural starter? This is a fucking joke.
Yes, that's what we're talking about. That's really just another way of describing the same thing. Jordan, with his skill found ways to advantageously use his teammates limited skills, while suppressing their shortcomings as much as possible, for the entire team's advantage. These schmucks didn't do it themselves. And neither can Kobe's "supporting cast"--the difference is that Kobe, unlike Jordan, can't do it for them.Originally Posted by Starr
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