opinions

[Scrap]

Do you think fighters can be trained to take a better punch Physically and Emotionally, Id like to hear your veiws.Plus to what degree.

[majorfka]

No replies yet.Ill give it a go.
I will pay scant lip service to physicality, as there are many more qualified to comment, although of primary importance i guess are trained muscles, good mechanics hydration of the brain etc.Another good way to suck eggs scrap is to......
You intrestrestingly mention emotion. A highly emotive subject.people such as Schachter-Singer & Cannon- Bard have wasted more trees debating semantics with reductionist theories than any other cul de sac of psychology.
To be deliberately simplistic and start with the idea of the mind/body system (afterall without mind the body is dead, in which case you can then talk purely physical and mechanistic).Emotion can be trained.I would argue must be trained along with the body.
To try and answer your question instead of listing random thoughts,I shall part quote a psychologist with whom i share many views.
To be read with boxing in mind/body..S.Keleman:"Emotional anatomy is layers of skin, muscles, bones,hormones etc as well as the organisation of experience" "Emotions and feelings follow the rules of water.When we we brace ourselves for shock or blow or when we harden to confine pain, our liquid state is like ice...No one is fixed in concrete;rather some processes are ice or bone-like and others are more fluid".He did not write this with boxing in mind/body,but I think it answers some of the knockout question?.
How to train the liquid state via the mind and to what degree is it possible? .I may attempt that dependant on replies and an ice pack on my index finger.

[Scrap]

That was n excellent post Im sure the lads will have questions cc.

[Lords Gym]

The punch that is seen can be dealt with via rolling with the shot in order to take some of the mustard off it , that can be learned thru training. Also techniques to strengthen the neck can help absorb some of the power of a punch, the knock - out aside from piss poor conditioning ( running out of gas if you will ) often comes the brain twisting on its stem causing a short circuit of the neurological system. So the stronger the neck the better chance you will be able to absorb the punch. However everyone is wired different. I know this one guy can take the best str8 punch in the world, but you touch him on the side of the head and he is an instant Muppet. Everyone’s a little different, Genetics plays a role here . I have found that long necked fighters tend to have more of the Turkey neck effect, and thus get canvassed a bit more when hit cleanly

Emotionally & Physically I think it goes to individual person to person.. Hunger, and determination is something that has to come from within. A good trainer can help try and spark that flame. Try and fuel that fire. But ultimately a fighter has to want it.

[X]

Scrap - an old fighter friend of mine once said that the guy that has been hurt before lots of times knows what to do. He knows that time is going faster than it seems, he knows it's not really a dream that he's on the floor etc. That experience can help him ride the storm. Larry Holmes was good at this, but it was Ali who wrote the best about it in his autobiog "The Greates". It's worth buying for that passage alone. Have you read it?


I'm not saying that all-out gym wars are the best for this - though Philly fighters and Detroit fighters who come up the hard way tend to have better chins - but I think this is because they have been thoroighly tested in the gym and only the real good guys even make it outside the club circuit? I agree with what Lord's Gym said, too, it is a metter of technique to roll 'just so' with the punches - look at Jack Johnson, Roberto Duran, Buddy McGirt, James Toney, Mike McCallum .... underrated boxer-punchers who did not do all the flashy stuff that some others did, but were excellent at slipping and sliding and not getting hit square on that much. Amazingly, Joe Bugner was also really god at this, just a shame he could do little offensively?

It also seems to be that if you can teach a fighter better peripheral vision, ie more spatial awareness (like the England Rugby team did before the last world cup), you can see more around you and are less likely to be hit with the one you never saw coming - cause they are the ones that kayo you outright !!! I suppose that it comes with experience as well, but a bit of experimentation in this would not go amiss?

[oldtownboxing]

Not only does time heal everything it can also plant and grow a great resilience. Fortunately and unfortunately, the fighter builds up a punching immune system. I say this as a trainer and also because we're suppose speak as trainers in this category. Some fighters never really build the fighting immune system. We've all seen them, and they either have short careers or learn to adapt in other ways. Most, however, with time take bigger nastier punches to the head and continue without any noticeable signs. I worry about these fighters the most, and the furthest thing to my mind is to have them be yet, more resilient.

OldTownBoxing

[Lords Gym]

well there is a learning curve to understand what the feeling of getting rocked is all about,. For me personally,, when I am in a match , get hit with a good shot and subsequently have the feeling of stepping in quick sand , rather then think something is wrong, I pretend that I’m now fighting in quick sand.. and make the appropriate adjustments. problem solved.

[X]

OldTown - that a really good post.




cc to you

[Scrap]

Old Town exactly my thougths on the matter. But certain fighters you see are waiting to get hit, and because of this they do. Is this taught or the minds defensive system in overdrive.I beleive its passed on through coaching by mindsett and the teaching of bad technique in the first place. Most KOs happen by a counter when the opponent has bad posture and is unsighted Im talking an even matchup. With what Ive seen its mostly mind sett, having worked with Major on a few projects its certainly made me more aware of the problem

[MDS8405]

And now for my little less intelligent answer....

Of course emotionally it can be trained. I spent tonight at my gym listening to two kids complain all night long (and it pissed me off so much, thats why I'm bothering to answer this one). One going on and on about his spray on tan sweating off and ruining his shirt, and the other kid complaining that our ab excercises hurt. Now, in a not so distant time, this might have been me...

After a few years of training for rock climbing and hard mountaineering though, my whole view on pain and hardwork changed. I mentally "trained" myself to thrive on it. I went from the kid that sat around all day avoiding pain and physical excertion (i cant spell... dammit) to the kid that spent most of his days climbing the most greuling mountains to be found. This has transferred over to boxing wonderfully. Instead of being scared to step into the ring for the first time, and worried about getting hit, I was ready for whatever was thrown at me. And when I finally did get caught with that first punch that made me stumble and sent everything spiralling towards blackness (just for a second though, he didnt catch me that good ), it just strengthened my resolve to go back at him and hit him even harder.

So yes, I believe it can be trained. Unless your main concern at the gym is your spray on tan, there might be no hope for you hahhah :P (i thought that stuff was for women anyway)

[Lords Gym]

And now for my little less intelligent answer....

Of course emotionally it can be trained. I spent tonight at my gym listening to two kids complain all night long (and it pissed me off so much, thats why I'm bothering to answer this one). One going on and on about his spray on tan sweating off and ruining his shirt, and the other kid complaining that our ab excercises hurt. Now, in a not so distant time, this might have been me...

After a few years of training for rock climbing and hard mountaineering though, my whole view on pain and hardwork changed. I mentally "trained" myself to thrive on it. I went from the kid that sat around all day avoiding pain and physical excertion (i cant spell... dammit) to the kid that spent most of his days climbing the most greuling mountains to be found. This has transferred over to boxing wonderfully. Instead of being scared to step into the ring for the first time, and worried about getting hit, I was ready for whatever was thrown at me. And when I finally did get caught with that first punch that made me stumble and sent everything spiralling towards blackness (just for a second though, he didnt catch me that good ), it just strengthened my resolve to go back at him and hit him even harder.

So yes, I believe it can be trained. Unless your main concern at the gym is your spray on tan, there might be no hope for you hahhah :P (i thought that stuff was for women anyway)

thats the spirit.. ! get hit and dive right back in you got the right attitude.

[MDS8405]

I just wonder how far that drive can take me. I'm willing to push hard till I'm at the top of my game, but I'm not sure how much natural talent I have for this boxing thing. My "trainer" keeps telling me all good things, but I dont know how much I believe him (see my post "Trainers"). Not sure if I really am doing well, or if he's just trying to keep me coming back so he can make his money off me. Need to switch gyms and find a trainer I can put my full trust in.

[ThomasTabin]

Do you think fighters can be trained to take a better punch Physically and Emotionally, Id like to hear your veiws.Plus to what degree.

i thnk that fighters should be taught to be on the look for punches and to have that as the primary concern while bxing. it sounds obvious but some guys dont do it and if youre not boxing with that 'defense first' mindset it makes you often get caught by suprise with punches that otherwise shouldnt never be landing. this mentality allows you to roll with punches because you see them coming and that in itself (seeing the punch coming) gives you a better chin as youre able to prepare yourself for the blow.

its my theory that all the guys who supposedly had good chin also had very good eyes in the sense that they saw punches coming.

[oldtownboxing]

May I throw a different twist to the thread? Someone mentioned women. I train men and women. These are two different animals, let me tell you.

What about the difference between teaching a woman to get hit vs. a man?

I've found that It's something that's needs to be approached differently, but after the break in, it grows from there. I've coached some pretty tough girls and felt pride from it.

OldTownBoxing

[Scrap]

I work with a girl at the moment who won everything at Kickboxing World champ. Ive never known anybody who works harder. She going into Boxing I think she will make waves in the sport, shes one hell of a tuff cookie I dont know about diferrent animals, she is an animal and pretty with it too.