Anyone seen 12 Monkeys??

[El Gamo]

This is one of the best films I have ever seen,it messes with your mind,I swear! Watch the film which is awesome in it's own right and then read allllll the thoeries about it which try to explain what it is actually about and then watch it again!!!

Anyone know any good Hitchcock films? What is so good about them? I've only seen Lifeboat ehich was awesome but there are so many others,IO don't know where to start. CC's for any ideas.

[frozensolid_702]

i saw it in the movies when it first came out.

i remember not liking it, but i think i was like 10 when i saw it.

ill give it another shot soon

[El Gamo]

Remember not to take the film at face value,PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION aaaaaand READ THEORIES after it and it'll blow your're mind!

[Punisher136]

I saw it i thought it was crazy where are these theories to read?

[El Gamo]

Sign up to IMDB,it's free and search the film,go to the bottom and you'll see one explaining the film and then watch it again. Trust me,it was awesome if you like intellectual thought. Or you could google it?12 monkey theories or seomthing?

[Punisher136]

I googled it.

Ok this is what i gathered. There is the original time-line. In the process he makes like 5-6 alternate timelines and the last one he ends up with is either the original one that was recreated piece by piece or one that starts the same has a bunch of completely different stuff happen inbetween but ends the same as the first.

[El Gamo]

There's that or there's the one about it's all in his mind,something to do with soft determintive theory,hold on a sec.

Time Travel:Soft Determinism

The basic theory in 12m, is soft determinism. Meaning that everyone has free will, the free will to make their own choices on everything..however people will freely choose (through chance, and occasionally active knowledge) to follow fate.

Meaning Cole at any time during his adventure could have stopped the chain of events leading to his death...but choose not too.


This can be a bit confusing for the uninitiated about the soft determinism. So here is a short story, featuring the same mechanics, but actually explained.

By His Bootstraps
Robert A. Heinlein

www.xs4all.nl/~pot/scifi/byhisbootstraps.pdf

After reading this great story, It should lay to rest a majority of the problems people seem to have with accepting the time travel in 12M.

Enjoy

----------------

Changing Flashbacks


Additionally, people gripe/ are confused about why Cole's flashback/dreams change during the movie. Dr. Reilly explains it, in the motel. Cole suffered a very traumatic event as a child(just before a global collapse no less o.o). As such he suppressed (or at least tried to) the memories of the event, but they continue to haunt him in his nightmares and potentially as delusions.

So as he journeys he begins interjecting things he has observed into the nightmare, ieJeffrey as the guy. He does this because of his experiences with Jeffrey, Jeffrey was never the actual guy.
--------------------

The Female Scientist: Past Self?

The scientist on the plane is not her past self before the collapse. That is the same scientist we meet each time Cole flashes to the future. Like many of the problems people have, the characters themselves explain. In her dialog she says "I'm AN insurance", allot of people(including the psycho Bio-engineer) hear this as " I'm IN insurance"

That is a very important difference. 'In' insurance means that she was some insurance agent who became quantum physicist after the collapse....o.0 mm While I'll admit this does add a certain bit of delicious irony to the ending, it does not fit with what we know.

'An' insurance implies that she is from the future and is carrying out the plan they lay out at the beginning of the film.

Cole travels back, finds the source of the collapse (Mistakenly thought to be the 12 monkeys), relay the information, and then a SCIENCE team obtains a sample of the original pre-mutation virus.

Which sadly lacks the bitter irony of the former, but the latter fits in with what is presented.


----------------------
The Answering Machine, Jose and the Gun

This is a multi-parter

1.How did Jose get there so fast?

Jose explains it himself. “5 minutes ago, thirty years ago. It doesn't matter.” You are forgetting, that Jose is time traveling, the scientists(after a bit of calibration) could send a subject to any point in history they want.


2.What's up with the answering machine and why didn't they the relevant information to begin with?

This is where soft determinism gives people a bit of a headache, in a way you could almost say it's a bit Bill and Ted-ish and not be entirely wrong. Scientists in the course of scrounging for pre-collapse artifacts find a mostly intact answer machine with it's memory(tape, etc) recoverable.

They realize that this could be used in their favor, allowing time agents to relay information without having to actually return to the present and suffer through the trauma and disorientation accompanied with it.

In earnest they begin to repair and recover the data on the machine, trying to listen to messages from agents they haven't even sent yet...but run into problems. The format is archaic, and 30 years of neglect have sank in, making recovery sporadic at best.

Regardless of setbacks, they find the number to that answering machine and tell their agents to use it as a message drop any way, in the hopes that they will be able to recover something.

Eventually they do get something, but it is horribly distorted and nonsensical. They play it for their most promising, Cole, but he does not recognize it, because of the distortion (later he finds out that it was Dr. Reilly, who left the message)

Undeterred the scientists, continue their reconstruction and presumably come up with better results. They recognize a final message from Cole, and then dispatch new agents to track him down. Eventually finding out Cole left the message at an airport at such in such time.

Then they send Jose, known to be Cole's only real friend, at the proper time and date.


3.The Gun

Having found Cole, and also realizing the value of the info he relayed. They suspect that he may have a better clue on who released the virus. (he doesn't, until Reilly points it out. But the scientists don't know that ) and so they use Jose to give Cole's fragile state of mind that last necessary push, into insanity and beyond all logical reason (if he was sane and un-hurried. He would have remembered, that he can't change fate, and that everything is just now like his nightmares) in the hopes, Cole would show who released the virus

Cole succeeds, giving the scientists everything they need but dies in the process.


Read that shat bro!!

[Punisher136]

Indeed a very interesting movie. I liked it.

[Wacko3205]

This is one of the best films I have ever seen,it messes with your mind,I swear! Watch the film which is awesome in it's own right and then read allllll the thoeries about it which try to explain what it is actually about and then watch it again!!!

Anyone know any good Hitchcock films? What is so good about them? I've only seen Lifeboat ehich was awesome but there are so many others,IO don't know where to start. CC's for any ideas.

I own that shit babe.

It's a beaut. Terry Gilliam...the art director & one of the writers for Monty Python directed it. Great film.

[Wacko3205]

I'm a Hitchcock buff.

Depends on what you are looking for in Hitchcock...because he's got a bit of everything in each of his flics.

My favorites for varying reasons go like this Vertigo, Rear Window, The Wrong Man, The Birds, The Man Who Knew Too Much, & honestly the list could go on & on & on with me.

Hitchcock is the best...any good murder mysteries of date take their cue from the man...he was a revolutionary writer & director.

Seriously...the movies are dated...but they are pieces of art in fine film making.

[Wacko3205]

Let me also recomend one of my most favorite new up & coming directors.

Christopher Nolan.

He's got a short list of movies...but honestly...they are works of art, IWO. Here they are in order of my favorites.

Memento starring Guy Pearce (one of my fav actors) is about a guy involved in a murder mystery & he has short term memory & tattoos all important info on his body while trying to find the killers of his wife. It is an amazing film...no shit.

The Prestige & Insomnia are in a tie for second...they're both that good.

Insomnia (starring Al Pacino, Hillary Swank, & Robin Williams) is about a cop involved in a Internal Affairs investigation that travels with his partner to Antartica to solve a murder case. In that part of the world it's always daytime. Never gets dark. The plot thickens as the cop (Pacino) accidentally shoots his partner dead while chasing the murder suspect (Williams) out in the wild. Internal Affairs then starts cracking down on him & the murder suspect also knows that he shot his partner...thus starts framing him & he has to partner up with the murderer to solve the case, clear his name, & it all just goes down hill after that. Fantastic. No shit. It's deep babe.

The Prestige is fantastic. 2 magicians develop a bitter rivalry over their shows & one of the characters wife dies in a trick that goes wrong. Hatred boils & one of them is actually a legit magician...the other...he's something else all together...supernatural thriller with a shitload of great actors...my favorite of all time...Christian Bale. Then you got Hugh Jackman, Michael Caine, David Bowie, Scarlett Johanssen, & many more. It's great. Very cerebral...you gotta watch it 2-3 times to get it. Saw it in the theatres 4 times & got a really shitty bootleg of it. Trust me...buy it when it goes on sale.

Batman Begins. Christian Bale takes the role as Batman & Nolan reinvents the franchise like no one ever could have dreamed. He, finally, brings out of Batman what he actually is...the detective, defender, & son of Gotham. It's more than what I could have wanted out of the retake. If you like comics...you'll love this flick.


The Dark Knight (Batman II) is the next film of his that's currently in production...it'll be just as great as Batman Begins...& believe you me...it was fantastic.

Doodlebug & Following are the only two Nolan movies I have yet to see & they were his debuts...self financed & hard to find.

Nolan is another one of those once upon a time directors.

[Punisher136]

Another movie i liked was the rainmaker. It's not a sci-fi movie but its pretty good. It's based off a book and i'm guessing that the book is equally as good but i won't be able to tell you because im not a reader.

[El Gamo]

I'm a Hitchcock buff.

Depends on what you are looking for in Hitchcock...because he's got a bit of everything in each of his flics.

My favorites for varying reasons go like this Vertigo, Rear Window, The Wrong Man, The Birds, The Man Who Knew Too Much, & honestly the list could go on & on & on with me.

Hitchcock is the best...any good murder mysteries of date take their cue from the man...he was a revolutionary writer & director.

Seriously...the movies are dated...but they are pieces of art in fine film making.

Shit man,we have the same taste in films and shows too!!! I would like something that will keep me hooked,something imaginative?


I'm going to try to watch memento today,is it reall y good? I also LOVED the Batman begins film,it was awesome,best superhero film,so dark and mysterious!!!