Sonny Liston:Where does he rank as a HW and how would he do today?

[El Gamo]

Thoughts?

[ICB]

Umm in his prime he is up there he just come at a time when Ali was at his peak no shame in that what hurt him was controversy over the 2nd fight with *phantom punch* but he would beat alot of hws and if he was in with todays hws he would clean out divison and been undefeated only one that would give him trouble is of course Wlad but i think Liston would crack that glass jaw of Wlad.

[El Gamo]

Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.

[CFH]

I'd say he's definately top 10 - 15, maybe even higher. There are, however, always going to be question marks about him due to his suspected mob involvment. WNF did a little excerpt on his match with Ali (the one with the so called "phantom punch", where you could clearly see him being hit; they did an excellent job explaining how Walcott, the ref, botched the fight and really had no buisness being there).
I think today he'd probably be undisputed champ, or at the very least one of the alphabet strap holders. The only champ I could see really giving him trouble would be one of the Klitschko's, but then again Liston was only just over 6ft. tall, so perhaps the larger men in the HW division would be able to beat him...
I guess I don't really know how he'd do today.... but Teddy Atlas had him somewhere towards the bottom of his top 10 HW's of all time, and his oppinion is much more informed than mine.

[Gandalf]

I always have issues with comparing fighters from different eras. Different training methods, different frequency of fights, size etc....

How he would fare today is anybodies guess....

He was a great of his era and that is enough for me..

[El Gamo]

I always have issues with comparing fighters from different eras. Different training methods, different frequency of fights, size etc....

How he would fare today is anybodies guess....

He was a great of his era and that is enough for me..

Thats true I guess but then we would never be able to have ATG P4P lists. I guess I'm just looking for inspiration from the HW division from back in the day because I really don't like any of the current HW except may be Sam Peter(and thats only because he is being shafted)

[ICB]

Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.

i hate doing lists because i suck at them but i'll try and do one.

Heavyweights

1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Joe Frazier

Sonny Liston would be 11 on my list i rated Frazier over Liston because of his victory over Ali Quarry and very tough Bonavena.


But his jab is one of the best i've seen he ahd very strong jab and he also taught Foreman everything he knows.

[Gandalf]

I always have issues with comparing fighters from different eras. Different training methods, different frequency of fights, size etc....

How he would fare today is anybodies guess....

He was a great of his era and that is enough for me..

Thats true I guess but then we would never be able to have ATG P4P lists. I guess I'm just looking for inspiration from the HW division from back in the day because I really don't like any of the current HW except may be Sam Peter(and thats only because he is being shafted)

You only like Sam Peter because he is being shafted?! El Gamo, I never expected this gay torrent to come out like this!!

[CFH]

Where would you put him top 10? It's just,I now have about 7 of his fights so am able to assess him properly.He's slow,methodical,but everything he did was thunderingly powerful! I mean his jab would knock most guys heads off!! IMO,he would annihilate Wlad! I think alot of guys were scared even before they got into the ring with Liston,that factor which Duran had and few others have managed to attain,beating a fighter before they get into the ring through fear.

i hate doing lists because i suck at them but i'll try and do one.

Heavyweights

1 Muhammad Ali
2 Joe Louis
3 Larry Holmes
4 Jack Johnson
5 Rocky Marciano
6 George Foreman
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Evander Holyfield
9 Mike Tyson
10 Joe Frazier

Sonny Liston would be 11 on my list i rated Frazier over Liston because of his victory over Ali Quarry and very tough Bonavena.


But his jab is one of the best i've seen he ahd very strong jab and he also taught Foreman everything he knows.

I don't mean to quibble with your list, and I know how subjective they are etc. but how can you not have Jack Dempsey or Gene Tunney on there?

[Unknowndonor]

Top 20 all-time. Today he is champ, if not, for sure top 3.

[GAME]

I'd put him in my top 10 and if he was around today . Him Wvlad and Peter would be the top 3 .

Sonny doesnt often get mentioned cuz of how his career ended but Ali had a crap end to his too . Prison gurads with clubs couldnt knock him down so I find the ending of the 2nd Ali fight very suspect . In his prime he was a monster but the dealings with the mafia ruined him .

[Dav]

Liston, in my opinion, was one of those fighters who is extremely powerful, but quite limited. He came along and dominated the division through sheer strength and intimidation in much the same way that Foreman and Tyson did later (although I beleive that the young Tyson had far more skill than either of the two aformentioned with superior defence and fantastic head-movement).

Liston was always there to be taken by a slick boxer who could think and move... in hindsight he was tailor made for Clay at that stage of his career. As mentioned in one of the earlier posts, there was so much uncertainty with Listons dodgy connections and corrupt managers that nobody can say for sure how good he really was (it is rumoured that at one stage his contract was sold so many times that 120% of him was owned.... the more he earned - the poorer he got!!).

I agree that the 2nd Ali fight was not above board, but I genuinely believe that he was beaten by skillful boxing in the first fight and just ran out of ideas (thats why he quit on his stool - not due to a shoulder injury as claimed).

[Trainer Monkey]

Actually the big bad bear is one of the few heavyweights of that era who wouldnt be fighting at Cruiser today

[DaxxKahn]

Sonny belongs in the top 20 for sure....

[GAME]

Liston, in my opinion, was one of those fighters who is extremely powerful, but quite limited. He came along and dominated the division through sheer strength and intimidation in much the same way that Foreman and Tyson did later (although I beleive that the young Tyson had far more skill than either of the two aformentioned with superior defence and fantastic head-movement).

Liston was always there to be taken by a slick boxer who could think and move... in hindsight he was tailor made for Clay at that stage of his career. As mentioned in one of the earlier posts, there was so much uncertainty with Listons dodgy connections and corrupt managers that nobody can say for sure how good he really was (it is rumoured that at one stage his contract was sold so many times that 120% of him was owned.... the more he earned - the poorer he got!!).

I agree that the 2nd Ali fight was not above board, but I genuinely believe that he was beaten by skillful boxing in the first fight and just ran out of ideas (thats why he quit on his stool - not due to a shoulder injury as claimed).

Yeah I agree with that . But I do think Sonny is massivley under rated . He should be on everyones top 10 cuz some of the names maybe put ahead of him . . Demspey , Johnson , Tunney , Schmelling etc would have got battered by Liston in the ring no doubt . They may have achived more in their era in a historical sense but Liston would beat them should they have met and of that I am almost certain . It depends what your crieteria is when ranking them I suppose