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Thread: greynotsoold - CounterPunching: The Side-Step and Drop-Shift

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    Default greynotsoold - CounterPunching: The Side-Step and Drop-Shift

    CounterPunching: The Side-Step and Drop-Shift

    This will be a summary of some counters available for use against a str right or left jab lead, using left and right counters
    1)Left Hand Counter v Left jab
    *side-step to outside position, hook left to the chi
    *side-step to outside and hook to solar plexus
    *from the outside shoott a str left to the chin
    2)Right Hand v. Left lead
    *side step to outside and cross the right to the chin
    *side step to outside and drive str right to the heart
    *side step to the out side and throw right upper to the chin
    3)Left Hand Counters v Right Lead:
    *side step to the inside position and throw a str left to chin
    (see below; "drop-shift")
    4)Right Hand Counters v Right Lead
    *side step to the outside and hook or upper cut the right to body or chin

    If side stepping to the outside (vs. a left) you have an option, in that once you step to your right with the right foot, you can pivot back to a fundamental stance to throw the punches described. Or you can throw the punch from a southpaw stance; the key there is timing. You want to throw, for example, the str left just as your wt goes onto the right leg, bringing the left up so you can come back to your beginning position. To throw the right you'll want to bring the left foot up to recieve the body wt as you punch.
    The DROPSHIFT is essentially what you'll use to sidestep to the inside on any lead, or to the out side vs. a right lead. When I first read the description of this move I felt it was suicidal, but then I saw Benny Leonard do it on a short clip of tape and re-evaluated its merit. I, alas, was too old to learn a new trick but the very first boxer I ever trained mastered it fairly easily. It offers tremendous opportunity for countering and for countering hard.
    You know where to start...As he leads a str left slide your left foot back 6" and simultaneously step forward a full step with the right foot, shifting the body forward to avoid the lead. Foot positions are now reversed. Combined with the str left; as the wt is shifted onto the right leg shoot the left much as if it were a str right. You'll give yourself longer arms with the foot shift and lots of power that will be unexpected. This move isn't all that hard if you remember to duck the punch coming at you. The timing must be very tight. If you choose to step to the side with the right foot hook the left and gain a lot of pop in the punch due to the weight transfer- experiment a moment and you'll feel what I'm referring to and know where it is.
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    Default Re: CounterPunching: The Side-Step and Drop-Shift

    Andre's Re:
    Slipping to the inside ,you would have to watch his right hand very close and have his rear right arm covered and or fully checked with your left.(their left isnt a worry as its already spent and over your shoulder,
    and you would be even more open cross checking their left with yours.So it would pay to practice the next move into saftey while attacking ,Yes?

    This following post of Andre's is from a different post, but I saw a few similarities:

    For a very committed straight left:
    What do you think about pulling your lead foot back behind your rear foot as you check their straight left with your rear right hand ?
    (which gets you also out of reach ,specially if its a lunging shot), maintain contact with your right
    and extend your right foot out to the outside of his left arm and attack over or under his left to suit his reaction to you going there, with either of your arms as you step in further as his left retracts,now your in south stance but up on the outerside of his left arm in saftey and you can attack with both arms but he cant until he moves.(of course you plan for that too and have him on the turn ).
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

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    Default Re: greynotsoold - CounterPunching: The Side-Step and Drop-Shift

    Essentially this move is a sidestep. Assuming an orthodox position you take a step back 6-10" (This is so that you don't over reach), then in one fluid movement you quickly slide your right foot forward to the inside or outside position, slipping their lead and shifting your weight to your right leg. Once the weight has been shifted to your right leg you can bring a hard left hand to their chin or midsection. To get back into position just pivot and turn your body and follow up with a straight right. This move can be easily practiced on any of the hitting bags, especially the heavy bag.

    On my heavy bag I have all the targets marked, and to practice the drop-shift I'll just give the bag a push and hit it while it's coming toward me. I can practice side-stepping to the inside, or outside, and aim for the chin, solar-plexus or heart.

    I think against a real opponent it's important to make them commit to a straight lead. My best bet would be using clever footwork (quickly move forward then backwards) combined with a feint to create a false lead to draw them in. Once they have committed to a straight punch, you can take a step back as much as much as is required and drop-shift to avoid their lead and then land your counter. I can imagine that this can be combined with many set ups even effective with the jab.

    If they don't lead or commit to their punch they can move away in time. The only time I was able to see the drop shift attempted was in the Miguel Cotto/Zab Judah fight. I think it was in round 3. Judah switched southpaw and tried landind a left to Judah's body. Cotto's timing and judgement was off and Judah moved away from him and his stance would have blocked regardless.

    The drop-shift is nifty counter when done right but probably shouldn't tried twice in a fight.

    I was curious to when this move came about and I stumbled across the Fitzsimmon's-shift in my readings. Although the move was around prior to him using it, it was his knockout over Corbett that brought the move such notoriety. From the descriptions that I have read I believe that the Fitzsimmon's Shift and the Drop Shift are one of the same.

    I have found a video clip of this fight if anyone would like to check it out.

    The Footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbe7nnnhNfc

    I've heard of other champions such as Benny Leonard and Flash Elorde pulling it off, but I haven't seen those clips for myself.
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    Default Re: greynotsoold - CounterPunching: The Side-Step and Drop-Shift

    Great thread Chris.

    However, I was familiar with the dropshift as a side step to the outside of the opponents lead leg accompanied with a jab - like that described by Edwin Haislet in his wonderful book. Side stepping to the inside sounds like an interesting tactic though!

    Would love to see some footage of Benny Leonard pulling it off, any ideas where I could find it?

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