TOP 10 best ever users of the PHILLY SHELL DEFENSE

[Poom]

I didn't really know Hopkins uses it, I have seen alot of his fights and his hands are always up super high, or a high right hand and low left (but not across the body )

[Poom]

no fighter has used the philly shell defense like James Toney and at the highest level and against the most opponents, truly the most effective boxing style however it isnt very crowd pleasing if the other guy is a boxer style , so being ppv is tough. watch fights of toney against holyfield and barkley where he schools em both with poetic efficiency, and at the same time he is busting em up pretty badly, the thudding from his punches that landed on holydfield was amazing. them fights sell.

but not everyone is a come forward type of fighter.

very well said cc

[bigragu]

Lol.. Youve been playing too much Fight night! :P

But i will list a few..I dont know about ten..

1: James Toney
2:Floyd Mayweather
3:Archie Moore
4:Jersey joe
5:Bernard Hopkins

No Frazier??

Frazier has to be on this list...it's just criminal not to...

[Taeth]

yeah because Frazier was so adept at avoiding Ali's flurries or making FOreman miss.

[Trainer Monkey]

yeah because Frazier was so adept at avoiding Ali's flurries or making FOreman miss.

Or winning a gold medal,or winning the championship in the first place,or holding a version of the title for 5 years,despite only having a 73 inch reach
Man that guy was terrible

[Taeth]

Did I say he was terrible? I just said he didn't have a great defence. I think Frazier is top ten best heavyweights ever for sure, and top 20 p4p ever. I just don't think his defence first of all was real philly shell, and second that it was all that good. Just because he rolled punches doesn't make him philly shell. I would say his defense was similar to Tyson's in that he came forward bobing and weaving, but Tyson kept his hands up, and he had the quicker reflexes. Either way Frazier is a great fighter, but he wasn't philly shell fighter, and he wasn't defensively oriented boxer.

[Trainer Monkey]

Did I say he was terrible? I just said he didn't have a great defence. I think Frazier is top ten best heavyweights ever for sure, and top 20 p4p ever. I just don't think his defence first of all was real philly shell, and second that it was all that good. Just because he rolled punches doesn't make him philly shell. I would say his defense was similar to Tyson's in that he came forward bobing and weaving, but Tyson kept his hands up, and he had the quicker reflexes. Either way Frazier is a great fighter, but he wasn't philly shell fighter, and he wasn't defensively oriented boxer.

Look at Frazier Zyglewicz,guy doesnt even hit Frazier

[Lionheart Lacy]

no fighter has used the philly shell defense like James Toney and at the highest level and against the most opponents, truly the most effective boxing style however it isnt very crowd pleasing if the other guy is a boxer style , so being ppv is tough. watch fights of toney against holyfield and barkley where he schools em both with poetic efficiency, and at the same time he is busting em up pretty badly, the thudding from his punches that landed on holydfield was amazing. them fights sell.

but not everyone is a come forward type of fighter.

I'd say Mayweather and Bhop use it better than Toney. The reason Toney has looked so good in recent years is that's he moved up to the heavyweight division where most of them can't box for S***.

Watch his fights in the lower ranks and he sure didn't look so slick. Pound for pound and prime for prime Floyd and Hopkins would completely outbox Toney. Not saying Toney would get dominated in those fights, but he'd be looking to wear them out and knock them out in the late rounds a la Michael Nunn cos he sure as hell wouldn't beat either of them on points.

haha okay keyboard warrior

[Taeth]

Did I say he was terrible? I just said he didn't have a great defence. I think Frazier is top ten best heavyweights ever for sure, and top 20 p4p ever. I just don't think his defence first of all was real philly shell, and second that it was all that good. Just because he rolled punches doesn't make him philly shell. I would say his defense was similar to Tyson's in that he came forward bobing and weaving, but Tyson kept his hands up, and he had the quicker reflexes. Either way Frazier is a great fighter, but he wasn't philly shell fighter, and he wasn't defensively oriented boxer.

Look at Frazier Zyglewicz,guy doesnt even hit Frazier

Zyg... who? I just checked him up, and he was ko'ed in the first round so how can you really gauge how good his defense is? Tyson had good defense, but his doesn't hold a candle to Hopkins, Toney's or Mayweather's. THough I don't think Hopkins has all that great of a defense. He has great footwork and comes in tricky enough that a fighter has to be cautious, but defensively I don't think he's on the level of Toney or Mayweather, and I hope WInky shows that.

[Lionheart Lacy]

i would like to remind you why the philly shell defense or the shoulder roll style was invented/made.

it was taught to some fighters in the philadelphia area by some brothers, i forgotten who. it was taught also to the mayweathers too. these guys wanted to use an effective style for when they get older and there legs arnt all that. where they could stand infront of the opponents and defend themselves effectively. this consists of head movement (upperbody movement), shoulder roll, hand postioning (to protect the bodyetc) and other certain moves. i have almost all of toneys fights and he does it the best. anyone who says b-hop uses the philly shell can go back to sleep, cos he dusnt.

i knew mayweather will win the dela hoya fight cos of this defense. difference between toney and mayweather in style is, mayweather runs alot, he only uses the defense when he has to, when he gets trapped on the ropes or when he gets tired and stands infront of opponents (he used it beautifully against baldomir). Toney uses this defense properly, no running or anything. and he has proved he is one of th best fighters that has ever lived, fought the most dangerous fighters out there in every division he fought in. this might sound crazy but it aint, i think toney would have given hell to joe louis. watch louis's fight against walcott, he was dropped twice with the shoulder roll counter, jus imagine what toney would do to louis, worse to what he did to holyfield imo.

also the main p4p fighters and future p4p fighters use this style.
toney, mayweather, guzman, paul williams just to name a few.

[Beanflicker]

CC^ Thanks for clearing that up.

I agree with your opinion that James Toney was the best to use it as well. Toney's shoulder roll counter was a thing of beauty, I loved the one he caught Nunn with earlier in their fight.

Gotta give the #2 spot to Niccolino Locche though, he could just stand straight in front of guys or with his back against the ropes and not get hit by anything.

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I got this fight on DVD, and Fuji couldn't hit Locche with a goddamn thing clean.

[Trainer Monkey]

Did I say he was terrible? I just said he didn't have a great defence. I think Frazier is top ten best heavyweights ever for sure, and top 20 p4p ever. I just don't think his defence first of all was real philly shell, and second that it was all that good. Just because he rolled punches doesn't make him philly shell. I would say his defense was similar to Tyson's in that he came forward bobing and weaving, but Tyson kept his hands up, and he had the quicker reflexes. Either way Frazier is a great fighter, but he wasn't philly shell fighter, and he wasn't defensively oriented boxer.

Look at Frazier Zyglewicz,guy doesnt even hit Frazier

Zyg... who? I just checked him up, and he was ko'ed in the first round so how can you really gauge how good his defense is? Tyson had good defense, but his doesn't hold a candle to Hopkins, Toney's or Mayweather's. THough I don't think Hopkins has all that great of a defense. He has great footwork and comes in tricky enough that a fighter has to be cautious, but defensively I don't think he's on the level of Toney or Mayweather, and I hope WInky shows that.

It was a title fight against a 28-1 opponent,and the whole reason it ended late in the first was because the guy couldnt land anything.Every time he took a chance to land something,taking a risky swing,Frazier clocked him for it

[Lionheart Lacy]

CC^ Thanks for clearing that up.

I agree with your opinion that James Toney was the best to use it as well. Toney's shoulder roll counter was a thing of beauty, I loved the one he caught Nunn with earlier in their fight.

Gotta give the #2 spot to Niccolino Locche though, he could just stand straight in front of guys or with his back against the ropes and not get hit by anything.

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I got this fight on DVD, and Fuji couldn't hit Locche with a goddamn thing clean.

HEY BEANFLICKER, YOUR THE BEST MAN!!! i love this style of boxing i didnt think there was anyone that did it as COMFORTABLY, AS GOOD AND RELAXED AS TONEY AND ALSO STANDING INFRONT OF THE OPPONENT. but who is this guy, i know alot about boxing but hadnt heard about this guy, im learning everyday more and more about boxing. instantly i knew i could pick up so much from this argentinian!!!!! 136 fights and only 4 loses, only 1 stoppage by cuts is awesome. im excited i jus wanna watch more of this guy. jus dont understand why i neva heard of him before!

thanks man! CC

[Lionheart Lacy]

i mean i've watched walcott, ezzard charles, and archie moore but they didnt do the moves like toney. this guy is jus like him. i wonder if toney watched this guys vids....awesome!