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Thread: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    #519 back at ya scrap. For takin the time to actually read & give ur opinion on my long winded response.

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap
    Silent that was Spot on Lubbers was not very good cc
    Ah but Lubbers wasnt the only examples I gave,also tossed out Mac Foster,who had quality wins,and Greg Page,who had the look of a comer

    Foster goes 2-4 for the rest of his career,and Page ended up being KO'ed by a guy who was 5-5,let alone decision losses to guys who were barely .500
    And these type of career collapses litter the boxing world
    Now I also tossed up a record that was more padded then a training bra,in David Bostice,but not all,or even most of these guys have padded records

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap
    Silent that was Spot on Lubbers was not very good cc
    Ah but Lubbers wasnt the only examples I gave,also tossed out Mac Foster,who had quality wins,and Greg Page,who had the look of a comer

    Foster goes 2-4 for the rest of his career,and Page ended up being KO'ed by a guy who was 5-5,let alone decision losses to guys who were barely .500
    And these type of career collapses litter the boxing world
    Now I also tossed up a record that was more padded then a training bra,in David Bostice,but not all,or even most of these guys have padded records
    Round 2. Let's break it down.

    Greg Page. Pro debut-June,1979

    He was fighting for the USBA belt not even 2 years into his pro career (Feb.1981). A quick ascent IMO.

    He wasn't the poster boy for fitness as he was not always in the best of shape.

    He has some losses in his record like-- dec.-L vs Witherspoon, dec.-L vs Tony Tubbs, dec.-L vs Berbick, etc... He also had some good lookin wins in there-- TKO-W vs Tillis, dec.-W vs Snipes, KO-W vs Cotzee. Good fighters.

    And yes he had 5-5 Mark Wills stop him in 9 rds. And beat him again in 6. All we can do is guess on this fight that is very inconsistent in Page's career. Was he in great shape?--Probably not. What was going on in his personal life?--We'll never know. Maybe he just got beat by a guy that had his #. Lets remember that even though Wills was 5-5 he was a pro, legitamate full sized HW. A far as his record, Wills had never took the easy road in his match ups. Among a bunch of other fighters with good records he fought Bonecrusher, Witherspoon (2x's), (a 32-0) Gary Mason, Page (2x's), Mercer, Jeremy Williams (2x's), (a 22-0) Zeljko Mavrovic, & for goodness sake Wlad Klitschko. Wills was no world beater but he was obviously a hard nosed guy.This is boxing & some guys just have another guy's #. This is a very likely scenario in this case IMO.

    You point out that he lost to a guy that was barely .500. I'm assuming your referring to Artis Pendergrass. He was 41 yrs old fighting a 28 yr old Pendergrass. And the scoring suggests that the fight was VERY close (96-97 on one of the cards). Cut him some slack bro. Besides this dec. loss at the ripe age of 41, the only other guy that beat him that had a losing record was Wills (who I addressed already). I am thouroghly convinced that we will never be able to give him (Wills) the credit of how tough he was (I'm convinced). Everybody else that beat him (Page) had a VERY good record (even after he was over 40 yrs old).

    10 of his (Page's) losses were after 1989-- he had been a pro fighter for a decade already. 5 of them was after he was 40 yrs old.

    IMO this is not a guy that had the wheels fall off. This was a case of a guy that fought good fighters throughout his career. He also fought well past his better days (into his 40's. Over 20 years as a pro). This is as simple as u win some & u lose some.

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
    Id call that the wheels falling off

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
    Id call that the wheels falling off
    Agree to disagree.

    This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

    Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

    Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
    Id call that the wheels falling off
    Agree to disagree.

    This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

    Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

    Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?
    No,Bey
    Not a good fighter?
    Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
    Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
    Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    good topic.
    Its no mistery that if you look at fighters who have been exposed, they usually had padded records approx 20 or so fights against opponents who were barely breaking even in the win/loss column. Then, when their promoters have them up to a nice number like
    25-0 (22ko). they give them a shot at a belt, or a top ten contender. Then Poof! it all goes away. and down hill from there. Because after they get exposed, they still have some type of name left, and THEY are now being used to pad someone else's record.
    "Hey look at that guy, he got starched by the champ!, if i can lay em out too, then im on the champs level too!"
    Then the vicious cycle starts all over again.

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
    Id call that the wheels falling off
    Agree to disagree.

    This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

    Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

    Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?
    No,Bey
    Not a good fighter?
    Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
    Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
    Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of
    Dis u even read my post. Ur posting things that I have already posted on the "Record"(Loss to Wills 2x's).

    How much do u really know about this sport? And I'm not tryin to be ugly here.

    As for Bey. At the end of his career yes he ended up 18-11. But Page fought the 13-0 Bey. And he was no good? Could u win 13 in a row as a pro? U think that's easy? His 11 losses were against guys that all had good records.

    U claim to be a boxer. What would u have been able to do with Bugner, Wills, & Bey?

    Losing to other tough guys is not a shame or humiliation. It's very easy for people to sit on a couch, hit a heavy bag, & bark about who's the good & not good fighters. I have been around & my beliefs/viewpoints based on my experiences are waaayyy different from urs.

    To each, their own.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
    Id call that the wheels falling off
    Agree to disagree.

    This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

    Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

    Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?
    No,Bey
    Not a good fighter?
    Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
    Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
    Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of
    Dis u even read my post. Ur posting things that I have already posted on the "Record"(Loss to Wills 2x's).

    How much do u really know about this sport? And I'm not tryin to be ugly here.

    As for Bey. At the end of his career yes he ended up 18-11. But Page fought the 13-0 Bey. And he was no good? Could u win 13 in a row as a pro? U think that's easy? His 11 losses were against guys that all had good records.

    U claim to be a boxer. What would u have been able to do with Bugner, Wills, & Bey?

    Losing to other tough guys is not a shame or humiliation. It's very easy for people to sit on a couch, hit a heavy bag, & bark about who's the good & not good fighters. I have been around & my beliefs/viewpoints based on my experiences are waaayyy different from urs.

    To each, their own.
    Losing to every one you fight is
    Come on,I was around when Page was coming
    He was supposed to be the next big thing
    After Spoon he never had another great win,how much do YOU know about this sport
    After he beat Page, Bey went 5-11
    Not exactly a Randall Cobb,let alone a Mike Tyson

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    There also Jerry Halstead,etc,etc,after Witherspoons he never strung together more then 3 quality wins again(the 90s streak was actually embaressing,he was fighting guys making their debuts)hell his very next fight he lost to a guy who ended up 18-11
    Id call that the wheels falling off
    Agree to disagree.

    This is not the wheels falling off. I'm not sure but I think U keep reffering to the same guy that beat him--Wills. If so- he ended up 14-18. If not, I don't know who ur even talkin about now (18-11).

    Besides after he was 40+ yrs old & Wills (I talked about him long enough).

    Name somebody that wasn't a good fighter that beat him?
    No,Bey
    Not a good fighter?
    Oh come now Page was supposed to be the real deal,and for the record he lost to Wills twice
    Losing to Wills not once but twice is a humilation,not to mention a Joe Bugner that needed a walker to get in to the ring
    Going from major league contender to "Will lose for food" is indeed having the wheels falls of
    Dis u even read my post. Ur posting things that I have already posted on the "Record"(Loss to Wills 2x's).

    How much do u really know about this sport? And I'm not tryin to be ugly here.

    As for Bey. At the end of his career yes he ended up 18-11. But Page fought the 13-0 Bey. And he was no good? Could u win 13 in a row as a pro? U think that's easy? His 11 losses were against guys that all had good records.

    U claim to be a boxer. What would u have been able to do with Bugner, Wills, & Bey?

    Losing to other tough guys is not a shame or humiliation. It's very easy for people to sit on a couch, hit a heavy bag, & bark about who's the good & not good fighters. I have been around & my beliefs/viewpoints based on my experiences are waaayyy different from urs.

    To each, their own.
    Losing to every one you fight is
    Come on,I was around when Page was coming
    He was supposed to be the next big thing
    After Spoon he never had another great win,how much do YOU know about this sport
    After he beat Page, Bey went 5-11
    Not exactly a Randall Cobb,let alone a Mike Tyson
    My expertise is far & above what ur accustomed to, I'm sure. I had 88 amateur fights w/ multiple amateur titles & 10 pro fights.

    U keep sayin "the next big thing". Maybe u shouldn't be so fast to buy into "the next big thing" line until someone has actually accomplished something that convinces u. What the hell does that even mean? ("the next big thing").

    When u put a bunch of guys in with each other that are all pretty good they will beat & lose to each other. That doesn't make them bad fighters.

    Everybody is not goin to be the undefeated fighter. Or the 1, 2, or even 3 loss fighter. Not when ur fighting other fighters.

    When the rare exception comes along & can dominate & win at this top level for an extended period of time it's an uncommon thing. It's the truly elite. It's not that many chief.

    But u got it figured out. Post me when u & ur fighters go get that belt buddy. It's not a long road.

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
    See the lead post
    Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
    It still doesnt mean your right
    Page never had a great win again
    But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
    We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
    Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
    Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
    See the lead post
    Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
    It still doesnt mean your right
    Page never had a great win again
    But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
    We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
    Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
    Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses
    He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

    Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible. And winning the WBA HW title means nothing to the monkey.

    There's an answer for u.

    Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

    I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ. Go get'em fella.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
    See the lead post
    Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
    It still doesnt mean your right
    Page never had a great win again
    But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
    We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
    Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
    Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses
    He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

    Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

    There's an answer for u.

    Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

    I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.
    Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
    Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
    Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
    Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
    How closely related to Page are you btw?

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
    See the lead post
    Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
    It still doesnt mean your right
    Page never had a great win again
    But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
    We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
    Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
    Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses
    He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

    Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

    There's an answer for u.

    Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

    I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.
    Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
    Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
    Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
    Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
    How closely related to Page are you btw?
    Our only relation is that we are both REAL fighters. Something that u would no nothing about.

    Stay in ur basement & work that heavybag monkey. It will never hit u back.

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    Default Re: Why Do Careers Go In To The Tank

    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by silent assassin
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
    Lets see wins to Snipes,and Tillis,mightt have created that amount of hype
    See the lead post
    Great you fought in amateurs,good for you
    It still doesnt mean your right
    Page never had a great win again
    But him and Dokes were supposed to be the big boys that would wipe out Holmes
    We know what happened to Dokes(snort),but what happened to Page
    Point to a SINGLE win Page had after losing to Spoon that was even close to beating Snipes or Tillis
    Ive pointed out enough pathetic loses
    He beat those guys because he was on there level. They were all on the same level. When that's the case--what happens? U win some & u lose some.

    Answer= Ko'ing Cotzee (29-3) to win the WBA HW title. But let me guess-- Cotzee was terrible.

    There's an answer for u.

    Where's my answer? How many of these pathetic bums could u have beaten?

    I'm pissin in the wind now. Have fun in ur world champ.
    Cotzee was a good win,and he lost it in the next fight to Tubbs
    Im not a HW so probably not many(except maybe the 0-2 guys he was fighting at the end)
    Going from fighting for the title to,fighting for a paycheck is the wheels falling off,wether you like it or not
    Unless the only way you view the wheels falling off is actual physical death
    How closely related to Page are you btw?
    Our only relation is that we are both REAL fighters. Something that u would no nothing about.

    Stay in ur basement & work that heavybag monkey. It will never hit u back.
    Yeah right
    Crybaby
    You made an ass of yourself,and now your PO'ed
    Care to post a name,Id LOVE to check your record
    Hey,wanna see a new pic of the gym,we finally got around to hanging up all the medals

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