Pernell Whitaker the best P4P of all time?

[Beanflicker]

It seems like "Sugar Ray Robinson" has become the default answer for the old "who is the best P4P" question, and it seems like the answer everyone is willing to accept. And thats cool, because SRR was an incredible fighter and deserves any respect and admiration he gets.

But what about Whitaker? Does he unfairly get left out? It just seems to me that all the guys that get considered for the best P4P - SRR, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, ect - always seem to be the guys with big punching power, something Pernell obviously lacked. So do you think Pernell gets underrated because of his lack of punching power?

I guess I'm just wondering why no one ever suggests that Pernell might be the greatest. I have DVD sets of a lot of a lot of the greats - Ali, Duran, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, ect - and Pernell strikes me as perhaps being superior to all of them. I think the guy was just on another level. I don't believe he truely lost a fight until he fought the much stronger Tito when he was 35 years old...

[Violent Demise]

He is without a doubt top 10.

[Lords Gym]

neat fellow pete.. whitaker had a fondness for Pepperoni pizza after workouts. He could eat !

[ICB]

It seems like "Sugar Ray Robinson" has become the default answer for the old "who is the best P4P" question, and it seems like the answer everyone is willing to accept. And thats cool, because SRR was an incredible fighter and deserves any respect and admiration he gets.

But what about Whitaker? Does he unfairly get left out? It just seems to me that all the guys that get considered for the best P4P - SRR, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, ect - always seem to be the guys with big punching power, something Pernell obviously lacked. So do you think Pernell gets underrated because of his lack of punching power?

I guess I'm just wondering why no one ever suggests that Pernell might be the greatest. I have DVD sets of a lot of a lot of the greats - Ali, Duran, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, ect - and Pernell strikes me as perhaps being superior to all of them. I think the guy was just on another level. I don't believe he truely lost a fight until he fought the much stronger Tito when he was 35 years old...

I feel sorry for Whitaker because imo he should have only 2 losses i bet when new boxing fans check up and see Whitaker loss to this guy they would of never heard of aka Jose Luis Ramirez and he lost to Oscar by that much even though he really didn't lose by that much ect thats impression i get from new boxing fans anyway but imo he is easily top 15 p4p of all time but was very unlucky with his decisions i think if he would of got the nod against Chavez and Ramirez like he should of had he would be rated alot higher but in record books it will always stand as loss and a draw and thats where Whitaker gets underrated imo but in my book he was one of the best defensive fighters ever if not the best he made it look so easy in the ring a pleasure to watch but very unlucky.

[Manju]

In boxing, more than any other sport, its not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. So those who win by KO will be considered better than those who win on points. If boxing is a metaphor for war, the KO represents the ultimate surrender.

Winning ugly (not that Pernell did this) is more detrimental to a boxer than it is to any other athlete. A defense first fighter, especially one who grabs and holds, will rarely be considered great even if he wins a lot.

As for Pernell, he was a virtuoso defensive boxer. At his best he was very entertaining to watch, could make opponents miss while standing right in front of them, and was arguably the premier fighter of his time, especially after his performance against Chavez.

But he does need to be demoted because of his lack power.

[Violent Demise]

It seems like "Sugar Ray Robinson" has become the default answer for the old "who is the best P4P" question, and it seems like the answer everyone is willing to accept. And thats cool, because SRR was an incredible fighter and deserves any respect and admiration he gets.

But what about Whitaker? Does he unfairly get left out? It just seems to me that all the guys that get considered for the best P4P - SRR, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, ect - always seem to be the guys with big punching power, something Pernell obviously lacked. So do you think Pernell gets underrated because of his lack of punching power?

I guess I'm just wondering why no one ever suggests that Pernell might be the greatest. I have DVD sets of a lot of a lot of the greats - Ali, Duran, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, ect - and Pernell strikes me as perhaps being superior to all of them. I think the guy was just on another level. I don't believe he truely lost a fight until he fought the much stronger Tito when he was 35 years old...

I feel sorry for Whitaker because imo he should have only 2 losses i bet when new boxing fans check up and see Whitaker loss to this guy they would of never heard of aka Jose Luis Ramirez and he lost to Oscar by that much even though he really didn't lose by that much ect thats impression i get from new boxing fans anyway but imo he is easily top 15 p4p of all time but was very unlucky with his decisions i think if he would of got the nod against Chavez and Ramirez like he should of had he would be rated alot higher but in record books it will always stand as loss and a draw and thats where Whitaker gets underrated imo but in my book he was one of the best defensive fighters ever if not the best he made it look so easy in the ring a pleasure to watch but very unlucky.

Whitaker deserved the win against Ramirez. But Ramirez was an outstanding fighter. And I think a lot of people of who watch boxing know Ramirez. It's unfair to call him an unknown.

[ICB]

It seems like "Sugar Ray Robinson" has become the default answer for the old "who is the best P4P" question, and it seems like the answer everyone is willing to accept. And thats cool, because SRR was an incredible fighter and deserves any respect and admiration he gets.

But what about Whitaker? Does he unfairly get left out? It just seems to me that all the guys that get considered for the best P4P - SRR, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, ect - always seem to be the guys with big punching power, something Pernell obviously lacked. So do you think Pernell gets underrated because of his lack of punching power?

I guess I'm just wondering why no one ever suggests that Pernell might be the greatest. I have DVD sets of a lot of a lot of the greats - Ali, Duran, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, ect - and Pernell strikes me as perhaps being superior to all of them. I think the guy was just on another level. I don't believe he truely lost a fight until he fought the much stronger Tito when he was 35 years old...

I feel sorry for Whitaker because imo he should have only 2 losses i bet when new boxing fans check up and see Whitaker loss to this guy they would of never heard of aka Jose Luis Ramirez and he lost to Oscar by that much even though he really didn't lose by that much ect thats impression i get from new boxing fans anyway but imo he is easily top 15 p4p of all time but was very unlucky with his decisions i think if he would of got the nod against Chavez and Ramirez like he should of had he would be rated alot higher but in record books it will always stand as loss and a draw and thats where Whitaker gets underrated imo but in my book he was one of the best defensive fighters ever if not the best he made it look so easy in the ring a pleasure to watch but very unlucky.

Whitaker deserved the win against Ramirez. But Ramirez was an outstanding fighter. And I think a lot of people of who watch boxing know Ramirez. It's unfair to call him an unknown.

VD bro i said Whitaker deserved the win and i wasn't calling Ramirez a unknown but you ask the average armchair fan and they will say Ramirez who ?? i tell you what speaking of Ramirez i loved his 2nd fight with Rosario man that was a war.

[ChuckNorris]

He is near or at the top of my list. Never truly been beaten. His last fight was kind of misfortune.
He had a way to make great fighters look average or bad.

[Violent Demise]

It seems like "Sugar Ray Robinson" has become the default answer for the old "who is the best P4P" question, and it seems like the answer everyone is willing to accept. And thats cool, because SRR was an incredible fighter and deserves any respect and admiration he gets.

But what about Whitaker? Does he unfairly get left out? It just seems to me that all the guys that get considered for the best P4P - SRR, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong, ect - always seem to be the guys with big punching power, something Pernell obviously lacked. So do you think Pernell gets underrated because of his lack of punching power?

I guess I'm just wondering why no one ever suggests that Pernell might be the greatest. I have DVD sets of a lot of a lot of the greats - Ali, Duran, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Ray Robinson, Roy Jones, ect - and Pernell strikes me as perhaps being superior to all of them. I think the guy was just on another level. I don't believe he truely lost a fight until he fought the much stronger Tito when he was 35 years old...

I feel sorry for Whitaker because imo he should have only 2 losses i bet when new boxing fans check up and see Whitaker loss to this guy they would of never heard of aka Jose Luis Ramirez and he lost to Oscar by that much even though he really didn't lose by that much ect thats impression i get from new boxing fans anyway but imo he is easily top 15 p4p of all time but was very unlucky with his decisions i think if he would of got the nod against Chavez and Ramirez like he should of had he would be rated alot higher but in record books it will always stand as loss and a draw and thats where Whitaker gets underrated imo but in my book he was one of the best defensive fighters ever if not the best he made it look so easy in the ring a pleasure to watch but very unlucky.

Whitaker deserved the win against Ramirez. But Ramirez was an outstanding fighter. And I think a lot of people of who watch boxing know Ramirez. It's unfair to call him an unknown.

VD bro i said Whitaker deserved the win and i wasn't calling Ramirez a unknown but you ask the average armchair fan and they will say Ramirez who ?? i tell you what speaking of Ramirez i loved his 2nd fight with Rosario man that was a war.

Fair enough.

[the phenom]

hes up there top 5 mayb , not 1 defintly not 1, i personally rank jones higher despite the knockout losses he accomplished some things but ray robinson is 1 until ppl buy a barain and match him up, he was great amzingly great but dammit these days a figher cant have 200 fights

[El Gamo]

It' great to see people giving Pernell the credit he deserves,I actually think he is somewhat under rated at times.I actually didn't know who Pernell was when I first came here and made a thread about,found all his fights and became a fan ever since.

A wonderful defensive fighter with a good offence. He could fight going backwards,forwards,sideways,through combos,great jab,good body puncher,if he had that little bit more power,he could very well have been the perfect fighter.I've never seen someone make great fighters look so bad,ie the Chavez fight. He was also a guy people didn't want to rematch either(Oscar)

His resume is a list of who's who at the time he was in the particualr weight class,something you don't find nowadays with boxers choosing to pick and choose who they fought. Never really suffered a loss until he was old and ravaged by drugs if I remember correctly. I'd have him in the top 10-15. I don't think I could have his as THE GOAT because I just feel SRR achieved more and had more longeviety.

[BIG H]

I've got him about 8th or 9th of all time - I had him losing to Oscar only coz he lost the last round - and he was well past his best by then

[SweetPea]

I have Whitaker ranked around 6th or 7th of all-time, and I rank him as the best fighter of the last 30 years. He's definitely one of the two greatest defensive fighters ever, Pep being the other.

He officially has 4 losses, 1 draw, and 1 NC, but he was only truly beaten once, and that was against a prime Tito, when Pernell was 35 years old, coming off an 18 month layoff, and battling cocaine addiction.

His loss to Ramirez was a horrible decision (that he avenged with a 12 round shutout in the rematch), his draw with Chavez was a joke, I thought he beat Oscar 7-5 in a close fight, his no-contest was a fight he won but failed his drug test (cocaine), and his last loss was when he broke his clavicle and had to throw in the towel because he was fighting with one arm.

[BIG H]

I have Whitaker ranked around 6th or 7th of all-time, and I rank him as the best fighter of the last 30 years. He's definitely one of the two greatest defensive fighters ever, Pep being the other.

He officially has 4 losses, 1 draw, and 1 NC, but he was only truly beaten once, and that was against a prime Tito, when Pernell was 35 years old, coming off an 18 month layoff, and battling cocaine addiction.

His loss to Ramirez was a horrible decision (that he avenged with a 12 round shutout in the rematch), his draw with Chavez was a joke, I thought he beat Oscar 7-5 in a close fight, his no-contest was a fight he won but failed his drug test (cocaine), and his last loss was when he broke his clavicle and had to throw in the towel because he was fighting with one arm.

Good post - agree with most of that, but I think Oscar just nicked their fight

[Sugar_Shaw]

Whitaker is top 20 of all-time without doubt. He was an unbelievable fighter.