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Thread: Landing the Jab

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    Default Landing the Jab

    There is still a topic on the board about setting up the left hook. I think many people assume that you just throw the jab and it lands or not. I don't believe that to be the case. Like any punch it always has a purpose. Lets talk about what you use your jab for- why you throw it in the first place. It sets up all the other punches, right? Well, how and why? So what do you do to really land that hard jab? How do you use it to set up other punches or to avoid the other guy's punches?
    My friend used to spar with Emile Griffith and here is something he related to me that Griffith use to do often and successfully.
    He would begin with feinted jabs to the body, his eyes noncommittal, then escalate to jabs to the body, his eyes sometimes up, sometimes down. One of two things would happen. If the eyes down fooled you into throwing a right hand at his head, Griffith would pull back from it and counter your short-of-the-mark right hand with his own right. If the eyes on your eyes froze you then he would bring his left straight up- a stright left upper jab, if you will- to the face. React or don't react, he had you set up because he was calling the shots and pulling the strings.
    Next?

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Youre talking to me about the best fighter of the 60s Greys the average fighter wouldnt have the giule
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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Actually alot to that
    Look at B-hop,he's constantly lying to you,same with later Ali

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Oh this site is getting really good. I'm getting excited.

    You see a lot of wasted punches especially in punches-in-bunches generation of fighters. Why waste a punch and give your opponent an opportunity to counter. Each punch should be set-up and well executed. Going off of what Thomas said in his post on Strategy, why give your opponent information that he can use against you. Effective use of the jab can be another form of the 'poker-face' For example look at how Ingemar Johnson used a easy non-commital jab to set Floyd Patterson up for the right hand. Essentially you're holding all the cards and making your opponent play into your hands. On the flipside of the coin, the smart fighter should also figure out what his opponent is trying to accomplish with the jab and what their short-term/long-term plans are.
    If you hear a voice within you saying that I am not a painter, then by all means paint and that voice will be silenced.

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    I was watching the Thrilla In Manilla on Wenesday,and I was struck by something watching
    Ali has five lies,and then throws 3 punches
    And they almost allways land

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    that is a smooth, smooth set up . i'm trying to think of how i would react to such a thing


    my jab, i am really proud of. i keep my left hand low but it doesnt dangle limply at my side and i dont flick/backhand it. Its held out like Tommy Loughran.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acMVVn-OT2o Watch for yourself



    note how slanted he stands, almost sideways. this is so that one can roll behind the shoulder with almost no effort at all and at such a slant it would be impossible to land any straight punch to the solar plexus. Well the jab could but if it did it would pretty much just graze by as there is no flush flat target for it to land on. the liver is essentially behind you from this stance since you are standing nearly sideways which means you dont have to worry about getting punched in the liver unless the guy is some kind of cartoon character and can run all the way back there really fast. this is good because by standing this way you limit what and where you can be hit in the body which makes the opponent more predictable. but youre probably saying to yourself right now that you would have your belly completely open. and youre right, you would. but the left arm can be folded back in to cover up the belly in a very simple and easy movement. note how joe louis holds his left hand here:




    the left hand is held so that the forearm can come back in with the glove resting over the solar plexus or shoot out with a stiff, rising jab. you must note that you cannot left hook (slapping hooks you can, but i dont consider them real punches) from this stance. all this is necessary to know if you want to know how to pull off using your shoulder effectively in boxing. it also helps me lead into explaining my use of the jab.


    my jab is a pretty hard and stiff punch. though i stand nearly sideways i do have a bit of give (just enough) which allows me to twist the torso. as a result the jab is driven outward. there is no special motion in the arm other than extending out. literally, it simply goes out. the energy is generated from the body not the arm. i'm hitting with my hip more than anything as my hand is shooting upward from the hip and the hip is what is generating the power. thus it follows that this sort of a jab would have a good deal of pop to it since there is no loss of power in transfering the energy created at the hip ultimately to the fist: the fist is literally coming from the hip. indeed, this is the most powerful type of jab that can be thrown in boxing. its called a rising jab.

    but though i have a very hard jab, as a general rule, i typically will only ever give out my jab in this way when i am countering my opponent's jab.

    do you remember how it was noted that my belly was wide open? well, this actually is a great advantage to myself and i'll explain why. i think in all my time boxing there hasnt been one thing used against me more than the counter left hook to the body off of my jab. and why shouldnt it be? my body is wide open and when i jab my left arm is committed to punching and thus unable to fold back in to protect me during this window. all you would need to do is wait for me to jab and you probably will knock my wind out. sounds like a great idea, right? well it should be because i made it for you. i circle you, not doing much. i defend myself from your lead punches without countering back. i dont want to exchange with you. i give you only my jab and a pretty non-committed one at that. I don't give enough to be countered. its there but not quite enough for you to make me pay. so you dont pay it much mind. its not damaging you after all. but after you are brought to sleep i mix up some of my heavy jabs in the mix. thus far i have only given you jabs, nothing else. you start reacting to every jab as though it were a hard jab, as my jabs - soft or hard - all look the same at the start. how you will react varries but typically i will draw the slip + a left hook to my body strategy. sometimes i get other startegies but this is the usual one. i attempt to time you doing it, get a good feel of your pattern, then throw a light jab out there so as to load up my right hand and nail you while you come in with your left hook catching you as you slip right into it.

    the main point is that the jab (i feel) should be thrown with the intention to create reactions. this is the primary purpose of the jab.

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    That covers it

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Well i have never really had trouble with the jab i go to the head and the body with it and get alot of snap on it i use to set up shots i use it as range finder also so i can set up my straight right hand.

    I also counter jabs with my right glove bit like Tim Witherspoon with right arm crossed over to his chin i don't quite have that defence but i do block with my right glove and then counter with left jab of own a similar way to how Witherspoon done it to Holmes.

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Quote Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
    Well i have never really had trouble with the jab i go to the head and the body with it and get alot of snap on it i use to set up shots i use it as range finder also so i can set up my straight right hand.

    I also counter jabs with my right glove bit like Tim Witherspoon with right arm crossed over to his chin i don't quite have that defence but i do block with my right glove and then counter with left jab of own a similar way to how Witherspoon done it to Holmes.
    I watched the Witherspoon vs Holmes fight and it seemed like Witherspoon utilized his jab effectively from the cross armed/hitman stylish stance. So does that mean the rising jab would be best utilized from the cross armed guard?

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    I'm not really at the point in my understanding where I can solve that problem. I really like Thomas's explanation on how he'd use his jab. His defense is solid, and and looking at Louis's picture, although he isn't in the position to throw a real left hook, he is in a great position to counterjab, and immediately after throwing a right hand his left side would be loaded to throw a good left-hook. Thomas's post give me a lot to think about, right now I'm just not not ready to tackle a problem like that.
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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    You are supposed to catch your opponent's jab in your right glove and then counter with your own jab. That is a basic Boxing 1A move: as he jabs you are pivoting (circling) to your left and jabbing so that your punch, despite starting a split second later, and due to you cutting the distance by circling, arrives an instant berfore you catch his.
    The 'rising' jab...if you look at the old time guys like Burley, Charles, Moore, Walcott and countless others, NOBODY threw a jab that began with their left glove in front of the face. Why? Because you can't throw a good jab from that spot- you can straighten your arm but that is about it. Billy Graham had a tremendous left hand, very educated, and he threw it from slightly below shoulder level. To use this type of jab, as Thomas alluded to, you cannot be square to your opponent. You must give him an angle and a narrow target unless you WANT to get hit all night. The angle of the body puts the left shoulder in front of the right and makes him travel a distance to land the hook. Meanwhile you can get a tremendous amount of force- a 'stiff' jab- due to the shoulder you get into it and the coordination with the push off of your back foot.
    Witherspoon, as I recall, kept his right glove across the left side of his face, left arm low to protect his body and his left side well forward. So, yeah, he threw his jab from down low, a 'rising' jab. And he also obtained tremendous turn on his right hand with which he scored most of his KOs.

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Quote Originally Posted by greynotsoold
    You are supposed to catch your opponent's jab in your right glove and then counter with your own jab. That is a basic Boxing 1A move: as he jabs you are pivoting (circling) to your left and jabbing so that your punch, despite starting a split second later, and due to you cutting the distance by circling, arrives an instant berfore you catch his.
    The 'rising' jab...if you look at the old time guys like Burley, Charles, Moore, Walcott and countless others, NOBODY threw a jab that began with their left glove in front of the face. Why? Because you can't throw a good jab from that spot- you can straighten your arm but that is about it. Billy Graham had a tremendous left hand, very educated, and he threw it from slightly below shoulder level. To use this type of jab, as Thomas alluded to, you cannot be square to your opponent. You must give him an angle and a narrow target unless you WANT to get hit all night. The angle of the body puts the left shoulder in front of the right and makes him travel a distance to land the hook. Meanwhile you can get a tremendous amount of force- a 'stiff' jab- due to the shoulder you get into it and the coordination with the push off of your back foot.
    Witherspoon, as I recall, kept his right glove across the left side of his face, left arm low to protect his body and his left side well forward. So, yeah, he threw his jab from down low, a 'rising' jab. And he also obtained tremendous turn on his right hand with which he scored most of his KOs.
    I borrow a bit from my martial arts training here,I train my fighters in the 8 Point Blocking System with the counter strikes,and use a modified version for boxing,just to get their heads around the concept of block and immediate counter

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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Quote Originally Posted by greynotsoold
    You are supposed to catch your opponent's jab in your right glove and then counter with your own jab. That is a basic Boxing 1A move: as he jabs you are pivoting (circling) to your left and jabbing so that your punch, despite starting a split second later, and due to you cutting the distance by circling, arrives an instant berfore you catch his.
    Ala Norton vs. Ali
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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    The jab depends on where the elbow is situatted, biomechanicaly thats wherethe tendons and muscles thatmake a jab happen are situatted. for safety and response its best to have it on the ribs for safety and response feel. It knows where it started touch and knows where to come back to feel.I dont like catching Jabs, to many bad habits down that road. put it over the shoulder is a better way or dont be there. The jab is mainly about finding where you are, before he does its a 2 way thing. Movement is the key for the lie youre trying to make, no matter how small that movement is. Flexability of movement and mind is the key to it. Hands above shoulders they are in the wrong place you cant punch, why the elbows arnt where they should be and have no response feel. Therefor the biomechanics have to be wrong to start the motion . Houston we have a problem. before launch.
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    Default Re: Landing the Jab

    Very true. Its very hard to do much with your hands too high.
    I'm a big fan of parrying the jab over the shoulder. Have you had problems with people that just can't grasp that idea? It is odd to me- some can catch that right off but others just don't seem to be able to believe it.

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