Some Knowledge For That A**!!

[Kev]

Holyfield is a blown up cruiser. He didn't belong in the heavy's to begin with and he fought the best of his era, beat most of them, or put on a hell of a fight. If you remember he was diagnosed with a defective heart valve. This was during the Moorer fight and Bowe 3rd fight. Somehow it was healed prior to the Tyson fight and my opinion all along was that Holyfield should have retired after that fight.

Sadly he is still fighting and has been way past his best. The list of fighters he lost to are almost all former champions. These were pretty much all championship fights. Get real. Because he didn't dodge fighters and have matchmakers put him in with only fighters to pad his record, he's got losses. I hate to break it too you but if every fighter fought the highest competetion they would have multiple losses on their records. It's life. No one is really that dominate over another person. MMA is much more realistic in matchups than boxing. All the champs have multiple losses. It's because they fight stiffer competetion more often.

Holyfield is an all time great because of who he's fought, how he fought, and the accomplishments of his career. In addition he hasn't allowed losses to get him down. How many fighters disappear after a loss? Most writers say they should retire whenever they lose. While I think Holyfield should retire, he is amazing in his perserverance.

CC,an excellent post. The only think I'll ask is,I think Frozensolid is saying that Evander is not an ATG HW(Right Frozen?) You've said he's an atll time great,but is he one at HW? Excellent analogy with MMA,I really liked that point.

I think I've done a fine job in making my case so far

At least your consistent in that you are completely incapable of accurately assessing your own performance as well as Holyfield's

[Majesty]

For those that want to continue the argument of Evander Holyfield being an all time great heavyweight........................



Do you know what Holyfield's record as a HEAVYWEIGHT is??






































24 wins
9 losses (that's not a type-o, he really does have 9 losses )
2 draws




Wow! 24-9-2





Has there ever been a more overrated fighter in the history of boxing??

Nope.


















































Hail Sultan!

Roy Jones must be the greatest heavyweight of all time then

He won the heavyweight championship and never lost it in the ring.

If the records at heavyweight cancel out their whole careers then Roy Jones should be the greatest of all time


Lets look at it.

He was never hurt at heavyweight, and never down, and won all his fights up there one sidedly, never had a controversial decision and never lost his heavyweight championship winning it in his first match there.

Hail Roy!!!

[Wacko3205]

Let me say this...while I don't like Holyfield & I do think that he's way past it...he fought the best opposition at his time & that in itself cancels out the fact that he's overratted.

Holyfield faced & defeated Tillman, Mercer, Bowe, Holmes, Foreman, Stewart, Rahman, Oquendo, Tyson, Moorer, & drew with Lennox Lewis.

He lost to Ruiz, Byrd, Lewis, Bowe, Donald, Moorer, & Ibragimov.

Most of his losses he succesfully rematched or atleast tried.

Not a bad list...win, lose, or draw.

Surely not overratted.

He's been in some of the greatest fights in history & continues to be a role model & symbol of what our great champions should embody...the problem is that he just does'nt know when to quit.

Some Knowledge For That A**??

Well...it depends on how you veiw the knowledge.

Bringing up his record does'nt really educate unless you view how he lost & the fact that he did avenge the one's that would give him the opportunity.

[Spicoli]

He lost 9 times because unlike virtually every other modern fighter he fought the best.

Like mnay great fighters the ringwars he had with the best fighters of his era took a lot out of him and he subsequently lost to fighters who he would have licked in his prime.

There are many great fights with as many losses as Holyfield, Jack Johnson lost 14 times, guys like Holmes, Foreman, Tyson, Ali all lost 5,6 or 7 times.

Ray Robinson lost 19 and drew six, you want to argue he's not great.

I know we're not talking MMA here but it's valid in as much as the reigning heavyweight champ Randy Couture's record is something like 17-8 yet he's regarded as a legend in the sport, one of the best ever.


Trying to argue someone isn't great based purely on their statistical record shows an inability to evaluate and assess matters.

You are making a fool of yourself. Have we had a single person yet who agrees with you? Do ANY of the great boxing writers and experts agree with you?

Do you think you are so clever because you managed to type boxrec into google and counted his losses up to 9?

I bet your mummy still gives you a treat every time you remember to wash your hands after using your potty and wiping your own bum

My argument with Holyfield lies in him losing so many times to fighters who were hardly great. Save your ridiculous MMA comparisons for the MMA board. They are two completely different sports where somebody quits 90% of the time.

If Holyfield was so great, fights with guys like John Ruiz, Chris Byrd, and Michael Moorer would have had much different outcomes.

Answer this question dipshit............


At what point in Evader Holyfields illustrious career (as a heavyweight) did he consistently perform like the all time great that you claim that he is??





There isn't too much of a difference in the careers of Holyfield and Gatti

Frozen man Im sorry but you REALLY need to get the dosage increased next therapy session.Are you really saying that Moorer,Ruiz,and Byrd are/were C level heavys
I absolutley can not stand Byrd...at all.The slapping,the goofy turrets like faces he makes,the boo hooing after a loss Etc.BUT he took on all comers and Is extremely skilled with his hands...AND FEET.I hate to say it but when it was made I thought it was a terrible style for THE GREAT Holyfield to do well against.Ok He lost no question to me But...Great fighters face all types and Calibur.sometimes they lose.
Michael moorer WAS a TOP tier heavy challenger.Exceptional hand speed,southpaw power jab(Remember hes converted)so he had good power in Both hands,A mean streak that was honed Early in his career when other lt.hvy avoided him like the plague.The shoulder/valve problem,Holyfield looking flat,Moorers sharp punches and The rampant reality check screaming mantras in between rounds by atlas..ETC.All Those factors and that fight was STILL a 1 point fight as the result of a asinine missed call in the 2nd round.
The Ruiz Trilogy get me squeamish and dizzy just thinking about them.I saw them 2-1 for Holyfield (no draw in the third).At the risk of getting jumped and mocked I'll say something alot of people wont...cough..cough..........John Ruiz Is/was a credible threat at heavy For Mostly all of the mauling,clinching,dirty tactics and decent puncher Wrong reasons.The 1st Fight marked Ruiz's run at 10 straight fights with top challengers(maybe save Oqendo?)Yeah I thought He lost to Golota too.Sh!! Holyfield should be Railed against for agreeing to fight him 3 times as opposed to how he preformed in them.Im not going to promote Ruiz,all I'm Saying is He can make many bouts ugly BUT tuff.Except Tua and Jones Lol.
Your "case".Headcase would be better made aiming at the Cooper Downer,The "fight" with Vaughn Bean,and that god forsacken farce with Donald.Holyfield Has faced The best heavyweights of his generation coming in The "smaller" man In everyone Save the tyson fights.He has stood his ground and competed gallantly with the biggest names in the game and won when alot of people douted him.Hes been doubted for mostly his entire career Inside AND Outside the ring.I believe He is undeniably one of the best Heavys to ever enter the ring,regardless of ones bias,and demands respect!
Come on short bus,really man

[Unknowndonor]

I have never been a fan of Holyfield, but he was a beast that is just too old, and has been for awhile.

[rjj tszyu]

For those that want to continue the argument of Evander Holyfield being an all time great heavyweight........................



Do you know what Holyfield's record as a HEAVYWEIGHT is??






































24 wins
9 losses (that's not a type-o, he really does have 9 losses )
2 draws




Wow! 24-9-2





Has there ever been a more overrated fighter in the history of boxing??

Nope.


















































Hail Sultan!

If Holyfield is that overrated what does that make Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis ??

What does it say about the following all time great heavyweights that beat this "legend?"


John Ruiz

Michael Moorer

Getting TKO'd by James Toney

Larry Donald

Chris Byrd

Sultan Ibragimov



In case you didn't notice................

That list (I omitted Riddick Bowe because I feel that he actually was an all time great heavyweight in his prime) isn't exactly a list of top heavyweights, yet they all managed to beat up on Holyfield.






Tyson was incredibly shot after his prison stint. People who actually follow the sport (not bandwagon jumpers like you) know this.



And Lennox Lewis (who I have also said is overrated many times in the past) accounted for 1 of his draws and 1 of his astonishing 9 losses, so I don't see where you're headed with that.

wait a minute here. Your trying to say that Evander isnt a legend because he has lost a lot of fights as an old man? So does that mean that Muhammad Ali isnt a legend because as an old man he got beat off Berbick? Also Tyson got taught a boxing lesson (before he went to prison) off Buster Douglas who Evander destroyed. Michael Moorer beat him on a bad night (when he was having heart trouble), but what happened in the rematch? How many times was Moorer put on the floor? Lennox got an ageing Holyfield and Riddick Bowe well in the second match wasn't he on the verge of being knocked out when he got saved by the most bizzarre thing ive ever seen in boxing?

[Julius Rain]

in evanders case you can't just look at his record. you can't just look at any fighters record. you must of really known them to judge them. And yes evander holyfield is one great heavyweight fighter, I don't know what your trying to prove but yea now I know why what the others were pointing out about frozen again.

[Deanrw]

I measure Holyfield as great due to the fact that he ruined Tyson and Bowe. Those two were considered the most destructive heavyweights of their era.

Those two were never the same after fighting Holyfield the Cruiserweight. He never ducked anyone while the rest were selective.

The only thing in my mind that prevents me from ranking him an all time top ten heavyweight, is the fact that health issues prevented him from reaching the heights he could and would have.

If you cannot see with your own eyes of what he accomplished, you are simply blind. Perhaps you are just trolling in an effort to get a rise out of everyone. If that is the case, congratulations!

[frozensolid_702]

I measure Holyfield as great due to the fact that he ruined Tyson and Bowe. Those two were considered the most destructive heavyweights of their era.

Those two were never the same after fighting Holyfield the Cruiserweight. He never ducked anyone while the rest were selective.

The only thing in my mind that prevents me from ranking him an all time top ten heavyweight, is the fact that health issues prevented him from reaching the heights he could and would have.

If you cannot see with your own eyes of what he accomplished, you are simply blind. Perhaps you are just trolling in an effort to get a rise out of everyone. If that is the case, congratulations!

Ummm................. Tyson was pretty shot long before he fought Holyfield.

Also, Riddick Bowe knocked Holyfield out the last time they fought. Are you implying that Holyfield ruined Bowe by getting himself knocked out by Riddick??


Typical Holyfield fan nonsense.

[Deanrw]

I measure Holyfield as great due to the fact that he ruined Tyson and Bowe. Those two were considered the most destructive heavyweights of their era.

Those two were never the same after fighting Holyfield the Cruiserweight. He never ducked anyone while the rest were selective.

The only thing in my mind that prevents me from ranking him an all time top ten heavyweight, is the fact that health issues prevented him from reaching the heights he could and would have.

If you cannot see with your own eyes of what he accomplished, you are simply blind. Perhaps you are just trolling in an effort to get a rise out of everyone. If that is the case, congratulations!

Ummm................. Tyson was pretty shot long before he fought Holyfield.

Also, Riddick Bowe knocked Holyfield out the last time they fought. Are you implying that Holyfield ruined Bowe by getting himself knocked out by Riddick??


Typical Holyfield fan nonsense.

He outlasted Holyfield in the third fight. Holyfield had a medical condition and still put hurt on him. That is what beat Holyfield that night, not Bowe.

[Kev]

I measure Holyfield as great due to the fact that he ruined Tyson and Bowe. Those two were considered the most destructive heavyweights of their era.

Those two were never the same after fighting Holyfield the Cruiserweight. He never ducked anyone while the rest were selective.

The only thing in my mind that prevents me from ranking him an all time top ten heavyweight, is the fact that health issues prevented him from reaching the heights he could and would have.

If you cannot see with your own eyes of what he accomplished, you are simply blind. Perhaps you are just trolling in an effort to get a rise out of everyone. If that is the case, congratulations!

Ummm................. Tyson was pretty shot long before he fought Holyfield.

Also, Riddick Bowe knocked Holyfield out the last time they fought. Are you implying that Holyfield ruined Bowe by getting himself knocked out by Riddick??


Typical Holyfield fan nonsense.

Yes he was completely shot with a grand total of one loss and a 9 straight win streak since coming out of prison 8 by KO and having regained his world title with a 3 round demolition job of perrenial contender Frank Bruno. Just completely shot to shit he was.


As for Bowe, he has literally been ruined by the boxing wars he had with Holyfield, Golota and a couple others.

In court documents he was examined by doctors and found to have suffered brain damage, a quote from a court source

They determined that Bowe suffered from frontal lobe syndrome, a form of brain damage that impairs rational thought and impulse control. In court documents, Bowe's I.Q. was listed at 79, a score bordering on retardation. At the hearing, doctors testified that while Bowe did not have problems with simple everyday tasks, his ability to make wise choices was severely hampered.

It's sad that boxing has left him literally a retard with an IQ of 79, just 20 points or so above your own I would imagine

[USA LOVES THE KLITSCHKOS]

For those that want to continue the argument of Evander Holyfield being an all time great heavyweight........................



Do you know what Holyfield's record as a HEAVYWEIGHT is??








































24 wins
9 losses (that's not a type-o, he really does have 9 losses )
2 draws




Wow! 24-9-2





Has there ever been a more overrated fighter in the history of boxing??

Nope.


















































Hail Sultan!

I count 35 fights as a hw, most (90%)of his fights were with the best of the best.

[rjj tszyu]

I measure Holyfield as great due to the fact that he ruined Tyson and Bowe. Those two were considered the most destructive heavyweights of their era.

Those two were never the same after fighting Holyfield the Cruiserweight. He never ducked anyone while the rest were selective.

The only thing in my mind that prevents me from ranking him an all time top ten heavyweight, is the fact that health issues prevented him from reaching the heights he could and would have.

If you cannot see with your own eyes of what he accomplished, you are simply blind. Perhaps you are just trolling in an effort to get a rise out of everyone. If that is the case, congratulations!

Ummm................. Tyson was pretty shot long before he fought Holyfield.

Also, Riddick Bowe knocked Holyfield out the last time they fought. Are you implying that Holyfield ruined Bowe by getting himself knocked out by Riddick??


Typical Holyfield fan nonsense.

Yes he was completely shot with a grand total of one loss and a 9 straight win streak since coming out of prison 8 by KO and having regained his world title with a 3 round demolition job of perrenial contender Frank Bruno. Just completely shot to S*** he was.


As for Bowe, he has literally been ruined by the boxing wars he had with Holyfield, Golota and a couple others.

In court documents he was examined by doctors and found to have suffered brain damage, a quote from a court source

They determined that Bowe suffered from frontal lobe syndrome, a form of brain damage that impairs rational thought and impulse control. In court documents, Bowe's I.Q. was listed at 79, a score bordering on retardation. At the hearing, doctors testified that while Bowe did not have problems with simple everyday tasks, his ability to make wise choices was severely hampered.

It's sad that boxing has left him literally a retard with an IQ of 79, just 20 points or so above your own I would imagine

Is that true about Bowe? I didnt know that!
I thought I heard that he was making a comeback but who would licence someone with that damage?