Julio Cesar Chavez vs Pernell Whitaker Punchstats ??

[ICB]

Chavez landed 220 and Whitaker landed 311 im shocked Chavez landed that many because when i watched the fight i didn't see Chavez landing hardly anything.

[CutMeMick]

I wont to deep into this one, but again when Pernell fans cry for the Draw and say he complete mastered JCC and JCC never touched him. That the most JCC touched him in a round was like 5 punches at most.

I've said that I didn't think it was a robbery I said I thought JCC won this is coming from a VERY biased JCC fan. I've watched the fight several times we have the discussion. I've gotten the fight for Pernell, I've gotten a Draw which ever result I don't think JCC was outclassed and made look bad as many people like to say again this is seen from the eye of JCC fan.
I also said that if Pernell would have won that would have been fine by me, the rounds were pretty even.

The fight was a Draw, we can have 10 people watching and scoring the fight I'm certain that all 10 wont have the same score and or result. History has a way of being manipulated by the media and this whole Perenells been robbed in all of his looses/draws was something that was created by a writer over at Ring Magazine years ago. From there a site whos name I wont even bother to mention took the same article and re-wrote it from there on it spread like Wackos herpies have spread here on the forum.

Again either Pernell was by far the unluckiest fighter ever or we need to really watch the fights more carefully.
He was robbed vs. JLR, JCC and ODLH. Then the Tito & Bojorquez fights don't count cause Pernell was past his best days.

I have nothing against Pernell he was by far an exceptional fighter who was light years ahead of everyone in his era but I cant agree with excuses made for the loses. I could understand the JLR loss cause I had Pernell winining the fight by like 3 round I believe. But other then that the rest of the results stand.

[Taeth]

Chavez landed 220 and Whitaker landed 311 im shocked Chavez landed that many because when i watched the fight i didn't see Chavez landing hardly anything.

Chavez hit him a bunch of times with the right hand, he landed more real, solid punches, than WHitaker, but he didn't land more punches in general.

[Taeth]

I wont to deep into this one, but again when Pernell fans cry for the Draw and say he complete mastered JCC and JCC never touched him. That the most JCC touched him in a round was like 5 punches at most.

I've said that I didn't think it was a robbery I said I thought JCC won this is coming from a VERY biased JCC fan. I've watched the fight several times we have the discussion. I've gotten the fight for Pernell, I've gotten a Draw which ever result I don't think JCC was outclassed and made look bad as many people like to say again this is seen from the eye of JCC fan.
I also said that if Pernell would have won that would have been fine by me, the rounds were pretty even.

The fight was a Draw, we can have 10 people watching and scoring the fight I'm certain that all 10 wont have the same score and or result. History has a way of being manipulated by the media and this whole Perenells been robbed in all of his looses/draws was something that was created by a writer over at Ring Magazine years ago. From there a site whos name I wont even bother to mention took the same article and re-wrote it from there on it spread like Wackos herpies have spread here on the forum.

Again either Pernell was by far the unluckiest fighter ever or we need to really watch the fights more carefully.
He was robbed vs. JLR, JCC and ODLH. Then the Tito & Bojorquez fights don't count cause Pernell was past his best days.

I have nothing against Pernell he was by far an exceptional fighter who was light years ahead of everyone in his era but I cant agree with excuses made for the loses. I could understand the JLR loss cause I had Pernell winining the fight by like 3 round I believe. But other then that the rest of the results stand.

How was he robbed against Dela Hoya? I mean no offence by this but you should watch the fight again and see what you think, because I saw Whitaker have good defence, but he got hit more than he landed, at least when it came to that right hand of Oscar's... it landed hard a lot of times just like Chavez's. This is why I say Floyd would beat him because Floyd has such a fast right hand that he would be able to hit Whitaker with it.

[ICB]

I wont to deep into this one, but again when Pernell fans cry for the Draw and say he complete mastered JCC and JCC never touched him. That the most JCC touched him in a round was like 5 punches at most.

I've said that I didn't think it was a robbery I said I thought JCC won this is coming from a VERY biased JCC fan. I've watched the fight several times we have the discussion. I've gotten the fight for Pernell, I've gotten a Draw which ever result I don't think JCC was outclassed and made look bad as many people like to say again this is seen from the eye of JCC fan.
I also said that if Pernell would have won that would have been fine by me, the rounds were pretty even.

The fight was a Draw, we can have 10 people watching and scoring the fight I'm certain that all 10 wont have the same score and or result. History has a way of being manipulated by the media and this whole Perenells been robbed in all of his looses/draws was something that was created by a writer over at Ring Magazine years ago. From there a site whos name I wont even bother to mention took the same article and re-wrote it from there on it spread like Wackos herpies have spread here on the forum.

Again either Pernell was by far the unluckiest fighter ever or we need to really watch the fights more carefully.
He was robbed vs. JLR, JCC and ODLH. Then the Tito & Bojorquez fights don't count cause Pernell was past his best days.

I have nothing against Pernell he was by far an exceptional fighter who was light years ahead of everyone in his era but I cant agree with excuses made for the loses. I could understand the JLR loss cause I had Pernell winining the fight by like 3 round I believe. But other then that the rest of the results stand.

I've said that I didn't think it was a robbery I said I thought JCC won this is coming from a VERY biased JCC fan. I've watched the fight several times we have the discussion. I've gotten the fight for Pernell, I've gotten a Draw which ever result I don't think JCC was outclassed and made look bad as many people like to say again this is seen from the eye of JCC fan.
I also said that if Pernell would have won that would have been fine by me, the rounds were pretty even.

Even hardcore Chavez fans know Chavez lost this fight. Chavez was completely outboxed and look confused and fatigued. Chavez was even stunned a few times he was beat on the inside and outside, to be honest the only way you could have this fight a draw is from biased scoring. Even Chavez fans were in complete shock they were silent all the way through because they know Chavez got outboxed, even one of Chavez's cornerman lifted his 3 year old son onto the apron to try and get Chavez going that tells you how desperate the situation was.

The fight was a Draw, we can have 10 people watching and scoring the fight I'm certain that all 10 wont have the same score and or result. History has a way of being manipulated by the media and this whole Perenells been robbed in all of his looses/draws was something that was created by a writer over at Ring Magazine years ago. From there a site whos name I wont even bother to mention took the same article and re-wrote it from there on it spread like Wackos herpies have spread here on the forum.

Your the only person i have seen justify this decision, how did you score Ramirez vs Whitaker 1 ??


Again either Pernell was by far the unluckiest fighter ever or we need to really watch the fights more carefully.
He was robbed vs. JLR, JCC and ODLH. Then the Tito & Bojorquez fights don't count cause Pernell was past his best days.

He easily beat Ramirez 9 rounds to 3 that was disgraceful decision, and i had Whitaker winning Chavez fight by 7 rounds to 4 with 1 even and that was me being kind to Chavez. I had ODLH fight a draw and as for Tito fight well come on he was totally past it he was having his cocaine problems by that time and do you really count Bojorquez as a proper loss ??


I have nothing against Pernell he was by far an exceptional fighter who was light years ahead of everyone in his era but I cant agree with excuses made for the loses. I could understand the JLR loss cause I had Pernell winining the fight by like 3 round I believe. But other then that the rest of the results stand.

What excuse ?? Chavez, Ramirez fights were total robberies i think mostly everyone agrees on that, Tito fight was when he was past his prime fact, and the Bojorquez loss i don't count because that was due to an injury.

By the way i would like to see your scorecard for the Chavez vs Whitaker fight.

[ICB]

Chavez landed 220 and Whitaker landed 311 im shocked Chavez landed that many because when i watched the fight i didn't see Chavez landing hardly anything.

Chavez hit him a bunch of times with the right hand, he landed more real, solid punches, than WHitaker, but he didn't land more punches in general.

They landed the same amount of power punches but Whitaker landed the cleaner, more effective shots i mean come on how can anyone have this a draw ?? is beyond me.

[SweetPea]

History has a way of being manipulated by the media and this whole Perenells been robbed in all of his looses/draws was something that was created by a writer over at Ring Magazine years ago.

This isn't true at all in the case of the Chavez fight. Virtually every media/commentator at ringside had the fight scored for Pernell. In fact, if I remember correctly, even 80% of the MEXICAN media members had the fight scored for Pernell. The Showtime announcers all said Pernell clearly won, and Pernell had never even fought on Showtime before, he was an HBO fighter, whereas Chavez fought on Showtime all the time.

It's not revisionist history, they already felt that way right when it happened.

As I've said a million times on this site, the DLH fight was NOT a robbery, and I don't think anyone should say it was. It was an ugly, close fight with a lot of ugly, close rounds that were hard to score. If DLH had won that fight by a close decision, no one would have complained (well, except for Pernell).
What's controversial about is that the scores were so lopsided, that it clearly gives the impression that Pernell could only win by a KO and that Oscar would get the benefit of the doubt in every round. If the scores had been a split decision with all 115-113s, it would have seemed like a well-scored fight. But it's hard to believe 3 judges could watch that fight and all see it either 9-3 or 8-4 for Oscar.

[ICB]

History has a way of being manipulated by the media and this whole Perenells been robbed in all of his looses/draws was something that was created by a writer over at Ring Magazine years ago.

This isn't true at all in the case of the Chavez fight. Virtually every media/commentator at ringside had the fight scored for Pernell. In fact, if I remember correctly, even 80% of the MEXICAN media members had the fight scored for Pernell. The Showtime announcers all said Pernell clearly won, and Pernell had never even fought on Showtime before, he was an HBO fighter, whereas Chavez fought on Showtime all the time.

It's not revisionist history, they already felt that way right when it happened.

As I've said a million times on this site, the DLH fight was NOT a robbery, and I don't think anyone should say it was. It was an ugly, close fight with a lot of ugly, close rounds that were hard to score. If DLH had won that fight by a close decision, no one would have complained (well, except for Pernell).
What's controversial about is that the scores were so lopsided, that it clearly gives the impression that Pernell could only win by a KO and that Oscar would get the benefit of the doubt in every round. If the scores had been a split decision with all 115-113s, it would have seemed like a well-scored fight. But it's hard to believe 3 judges could watch that fight and all see it either 9-3 or 8-4 for Oscar.

Very good post totally agree cc.

By the way i had Oscar Dela Hoya vs Pernell Whitaker fight a draw.

[Manju]

Chavez clearly lost. But just as important, he refused to fight Whitaker again. He dodged Randall, who was robbed in the 2nd fight, until he was past his prime. He was destroyed by ODLH and never stepped up to fight Simon brown, Buddy Mcgirt, Azumah Nelson, or Terry Norris. His greatest accomplishment was a controversial stoppage against Taylor.

Chavez simply dodged too many great fighters to be considered great himself.

[Mr140]

Well to tell you the truth i have never seen the Chavaz and Witaker fight but if Cut one of best poster i read and he says it was not a Robbery but i guess i have to go watch it and just find out for my self to tell you the truth if he look at how many fights JCC had i think he was ring old when he fought Pernell. And to be far to JCC he really was past it when he fought Oscar 33 or not he was shot to me maybe i am wrong but i think JCC had to many wars before the Oscar got a hold of him the way he fought you do not last very long in boxing so i give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

[ICB]

Well to tell you the truth i have never seen the Chavaz and Witaker fight but if Cut one of best poster i read and he says it was not a Robbery but i guess i have to go watch it and just find out for my self to tell you the truth if he look at how many fights JCC had i think he was ring old when he fought Pernell.

He is the only one that i've ever seen justify the decision.

The bout turned out to be no easy task for Chavez. The first few rounds were relatively even but after the fourth round Whitaker's elusiveness and quickness seemed to be befuddling Chavez. Chavez showed signs of fatigue throughout the fight and had difficulty cutting off the ring and catching Whitaker. In addition, Chavez's punch output dropped severely. Furthurmore, Chavez world famous inside game was ineffective as Whitaker, not known for his inside game, was beating Chavez in the inside exchanges. Whitaker was not known for his punching power but did stun Chavez a few times in the fight with hard left hands. The fight was held in front of thousands of Chavez supporters in San Antonio but even they became dead silent as they started to see Whitaker take force and dominate Chavez with little trouble.


Before the scorecards were announced the Showtime television commentators were in unanimous agreement that Whitaker had won the bout and didn't even consider it to be a close contest. Just later, the scorecards were announced and the fight was declared a draw. This prompted some boos even among some of Chavez fans as they recognized that Whitaker was the true winner of the contest. Several members of the media, such as The Ring magazine and Sports Illustrated were disgusted with the decision. Later on several journalists complained of the fact that the WBC appointed the judges to the fight rather then the independent Texas Boxing & Wrestling Program. This promoted widespread calls of corruption for the world titles to banish this practice; however nothing was done and this practice is still in effect today.