Koko the Gorilla, especially of interest to Sharla and Pacfan

[Kev]

Gorilla Foundation - Gorilla Intelligence and Behavior

Found this really interesting. Koko is a female gorilla born in 1971 that has the most advanved vocabulary of any non human in the world.

She knows over 2000 spoken human words and has a sign language vocabulary of over a 1000 signs.

There's a few youtube vids of her as well which I'll add shortly

[Kev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5RrORtDZuQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCMc9...eature=related

I've always believed, and still do that there is a qualatitive difference between humans and animals, but this is certainly intriguing.

According to her website she has an IQ of around 75-90 with 100 being normal for a human

This makes her officially smarter than TysonBruno

The second video takes about 4 minutes to start properly but its absolutely fascinating.

I challenge anyone to watch it through and not well up at least a little bit.

I want a friend like this :-)

[Kev]

The second video has some fascinating stuff about Michael a male silverback who communicates through paintings.

He even named his own paintings

Amazing how intelligent they are, really suprised me.

It's hard to deny they have some form of consciousness. I wonder how it compares to ours?

[Sharla]

That's georgeous! I love her facial expressions when she's getting spun around on the chair! I've only had time to watch the highlights and not the whole thing yet but it's a really good fond Bilbo!

Really I don't understand the human need to believe that we're a superior species. Obviously all species have their strengths and weaknesses. Our strengths are obvious but in a way we have our weaknesses too.

I think many animals are smarter than people would give them credit for. This is going to sound really sappy but one of my jobs when I was a kid on the farm was to rear orphaned lambs.

Unfortunately many didn't survive because they needed their mother's milk for immunity. As for the ones that did they really would follow me all over the place. They learnt to climb through fences the same way I did so we couldn't keep them in paddocks the same way we could the others.

Once one of them was in a paddock and couldn't get to me bacause there was a big muddy pit thing between us. All I had to do was point the way around it a few times and the lamb followed my directions.

Sheep are meant to be stupid but really I think there are different types of intelligence. Humans have a few types, some animals can develop those to an extent and I think they have some types we don't have too.

[Kev]

That's georgeous! I love her facial expressions when she's getting spun around on the chair! I've only had time to watch the highlights and not the whole thing yet but it's a really good fond Bilbo!

Really I don't understand the human need to believe that we're a superior species. Obviously all species have their strengths and weaknesses. Our strengths are obvious but in a way we have our weaknesses too.

I think many animals are smarter than people would give them credit for. This is going to sound really sappy but one of my jobs when I was a kid on the farm was to rear orphaned lambs.

Unfortunately many didn't survive because they needed their mother's milk for immunity. As for the ones that did they really would follow me all over the place. They learnt to climb through fences the same way I did so we couldn't keep them in paddocks the same way we could the others.

Once one of them was in a paddock and couldn't get to me bacause there was a big muddy pit thing between us. All I had to do was point the way around it a few times and the lamb followed my directions.

Sheep are meant to be stupid but really I think there are different types of intelligence. Humans have a few types, some animals can develop those to an extent and I think they have some types we don't have too.

Yeah it is suprising to me how intelligent other animals can be.

Reading about Koko on Wikipedia she actually had her own cats as pets and was involved in several sexual harrassment lawsuits because she kept demanding to see her handler's nipples

The idea that serious scientific research into communication with gorilla's ended with the gorilla signing 'Show me your tits' is not only absolutely hilarious but does suggest they may be more 'human' than we realise

Koko (gorilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

[Sharla]

So you'e saying Koko is a lesbian! I see what you mean by more human than we might think. I think most people with pets will agree that they all have their own personalities. Where else does that come from if not their minds? How can a dog have a personality but not emotions or thought?! I don't think it can!

[BoxingGorilla]

I love it!

[CutMeMick]

Silverback,
What can you tell us about Koko from those videos?
Are you guys related?

[Kirkland Laing]

but does suggest they may be more 'human' than we realise

Apes have 98.something % the same DNA as me and you do. To put that in perspective female humans only have 97.something % the same DNA as me and you. Which explains a lot, doesn't it ladies ?

[Sharla]

but does suggest they may be more 'human' than we realise

Apes have 98.something % the same DNA as me and you do. To put that in perspective female humans only have 97.something % the same DNA as me and you. Which explains a lot, doesn't it ladies ?

It would explain why guys are hairier and physically stronger than us! Not to mention a few other things

[BoxingGorilla]

Silverback,
What can you tell us about Koko from those videos?
Are you guys related?

LOL I can tell you that watching her brought tears to my eyes lol

I love gorillas.

[BoxingGorilla]

So you'e saying Koko is a lesbian! I see what you mean by more human than we might think. I think most people with pets will agree that they all have their own personalities. Where else does that come from if not their minds? How can a dog have a personality but not emotions or thought?! I don't think it can!

I think they have personalities and thought but not emotions. At least not to the degree that you and I have them. I take Cymbalta though so what the hell do I know?

I always ask my girlfriend if she thinks Mister (my dog) knows how much I love him. I rub his belly and get down in the floor and lay with him but part of me doesn't feel like he fully understands what love is.

I've had strep throat the last couple weeks (medicine starting to kick in now) and I was wondering if dogs can catch it or what they can catch from humans. It depressed me to think that my dog could be sick and have no way to tell me how bad it hurt or that he needed medicine.

When they are sick they just lay an sleep.

[Sharla]

Of course animals understand love! Haven't we all read stories about dogs who die trying to save their owners?!?! Isn't that love - that's not self preservation for sure!

What do you think the look on Koko's face was as she was getting spun around on the chair was - emotion - she was having the time of her life!

Why do you think dogs are so damn excited to see you whenever you get home?

Some animals mate for life - what's that if not love?

What about gorillas that have been known to protect kids that fall into their enclosures?

Animals appreciate more simple pleasures than us. I don't think that means that they are less capable of love - if anything it means they're MORE capable. They worry less and waste less emotional energy on crap like money!

[Kev]

Of course animals understand love! Haven't we all read stories about dogs who die trying to save their owners?!?! Isn't that love - that's not self preservation for sure!

What do you think the look on Koko's face was as she was getting spun around on the chair was - emotion - she was having the time of her life!

Why do you think dogs are so damn excited to see you whenever you get home?

Some animals mate for life - what's that if not love?

What about gorillas that have been known to protect kids that fall into their enclosures?

Animals appreciate more simple pleasures than us. I don't think that means that they are less capable of love - if anything it means they're MORE capable. They worry less and waste less emotional energy on crap like money!

Yeah I think you might be right. I guess animals experiences much more pure emotions than we do. I mean if a dog is happy that's probably all it feels, happiness. Unlike ourselves who can feel happy in the moment but also at the same time we self conscious about displaying our happiness, guilty because we feel happy, or have a range of other thoughts and emotions running through our heads at the same time like future anxiety or past regrets etc.

I don't know if you watched that long second video right through yet but what impressed me most was how Koko actually invented her own words and vocabulary to describe things she had not been given a name for.

In the video it explains how she saw a ring, an object that she had not had identified to her before and described it by mixing two words known to her finger and bracelet and putting them together to call it a finger bracelet.

Now I don't want to get carried away as I guess there's always the possibility of human's however objective to anthropomorphise animals and exaggerate their ability to think but if she really did manage that then that is pretty amazing!

I wonder if she is able to seperate herself from others and has a genuine I and You understanding and if she is capable of realising that her own experience is different from others?

When I studied psychology we learned that many autistic people cannot seperate their own experience from that of others. For example if an autistic child placed an object inside a box they would assume that other people who wern't in the room would still know where the object was because of their own experience of having placed it.

What would be most intriguing of all is whether Koko or any other animal can demonstrate self awareness and the fact that they exist rather than not exist. If Koko is capable of understanding that she is a created being and showed signs of questioning where she came from that would be absolutely mind blowing.

I'm definitely going to research more into this, as I think it's fascinating.

[Sharla]

Well I think the way animals are often territorial is a sign of having a concept of the you and I thing surely?

Also pets that get jealous of other pets and new family members. Bring a new dog or a baby into a house which already has a dog or cat and see how much they HATE their owners apying attention to the new party. Parrots have been known to get so stressed out about it they start pulling their own feathers out!

I don't understand why people think animals are so limited mentally and emotionally. Where's the evidence that they're NOT emotional creatures?