The problem with Boxing & It's training.

[Sharla]

I really prefer to understand why something is right and wrong but also the mechanics of how it works. Some things my coaches explain others they don't and some they probably do explain and i still don't get it anyway (i pity them coaching me sometimes ).

The thing i probably struggle with conceptually the most is how people hold such strong guards and mine is utterly pathetic no matter what i do!

Since you commented on it though Hitmandonny - i am curious about the shoulder hitting your chin thing. I mean i can do that sometimes but i must do it the wrong way because my body right shoulder hitting my chin at the end of my cross just hurts! Maybe i turn the fist over at the wrong time?

Sometimes I'd prefer to be hit with my opponents glove than my shoulder because at least that's semi-padded! Or am I just being a woss!

Overall i do agree with you hitmandonny. In many places the boxing culture is to do what you're told without questioning why.

I think it's meant to be about discipline and being gutzy but there are other ways to demonstrate discipline and determination and respect for your trainer than to not question them or the techniques they were taught.

I think if you can ask someone a Q because you trust them to know the answer and elighten you it's better than just trusting the techniques they were taught.

I often wonder how much i can and can't do has to do with me as an individual because something is not quite right - maybe my hips are out, i have a weak muscle group somewhere etc - things that i may not be able to correct just by persisting with that technique.

Things like a tight psoas for example which can mess up your ability to balance and move fluently are often exacerbated by more exercise - so the more you train some things with the wrong physical tools - the more you exacerbate tightnesses etc and the more difficult it would be to do what you're trying to do.

If you don't know why and how something works how can you tell the difference between what you should be able to do and what you need more preparation to be able to do physically?!?!

[donnydarkoIRL]

Hey Sharla, good to see you back!
As for the Shoulders. Its a defensive movement that I was taught quite some time ago but had completely neglected in recent years.
I think if the force is in the fist you shouldn't feel it in the shoulder


Your point about not asking why is exactly the problem. Too many (including myself) blindly follow trainers instructions. We trust the trainer and almost assume he's the best in the world.

I was told I rely too much on my heart in fights. Pushing through fatigue pain and stamina barriers I can believe that. Having been shown some new things and asked to rely on those techniques makes my life a little easier.

Trainers have a poor understanding of the body.
They pass on what they learned themselves, never pausing to think that they could alter it a little for the better. Thats the problem

[Scrap]

What we seek is the truth, by finding ourself and knowing your self. With a bit of outside Help with the Truth.

[Dizaster]

I liked your post Donny... It could almost be said as a metaphor for things in life as well... You can be doing something one way your whole life and get better faster at it, and are quite content,,, then someone comes along and shows you a better way, and you almost have to look back on every single time that you did that thing, and wondered why and how you ever really truely got by without that new piece of knowledge...

As Missy said, I think it is all your hard work and determination that got you to the level that you made it to, and it is that exact some drive that will take you to the level above that if you wish..

One way I would suggest to look at it is by watching a few boxing matches... Many many many fighters have different stances and techniques. They all hold their hands differently, move differently, stand a little different, throw their punches slightly wider or shorter etc... Any one of them could have been throwing like that their whole boxing career, and they could be 5 time world champions....... To a new person coming in, they would probably even try to emulate exactly how that champion throws their punches/stands..... But a different trainer could come along and show that champion a different way of throwing a jab, and instantly it could improve.....
It probably doesn't make his last trainer's jab inferior. Hell it got him 5 world championships..
Everyone has different styles and techniques.. And what really works for one person.. In fact, what is absolutely perfect for one person might be quite inferior for another...
That new trainer showed you a few tips that fortunately are something that suits you and where you can progress from where you are now, and it seems like your old techniques weren't as good as the new ones...
That's very lucky for you, and you sound very grateful for the gift... But I wouldn't think of your last trainers instruction as inferior to the new trainers... Just different, and not 100% perfect for you yourself...

I remember watching a documentary with Wayne Mcculloch when he changed trainers, and the new trainer said to him, "show me your jab"... Wayne does a Jab.. trainer says "Is that how you always throw it?", Wayne says "I'll throw it however you want me to throw it"...

Wayne was already a chapion at this stage, and his new trainer was able to improve his Jab... But it's the heart and determination that makes a champ...

My final thought is,,,, there are fighters who have made very decent professional careers, and have 100% taught themselves!!! Anyone could question just how far they could have got if they had proper instruction... But maybe they might not have got anywhere?? Millions of other factors could have determined them not being champion if they had adopted a trainer instead...

So take the new gift and enjoy it and let it make you all the more better of a fighter... And remember that it's everything that can't be taught that has probably got you as far as you are now, and further...

[Scrap]

Good post Sean I remember you singing The most Beutiful Girlin the world to the Wife, Up the BLADES .

[donnydarkoIRL]

Liked that post very much Diz, I'll rep you as soon as I can

[killersheep]

Well fact is.
Method 1 had me tired out, using every ounce of energy to stay going.

Method 2; has me throwing with more power with less physical demand, albeit I'm slightly slower.


My body tells me that the new things I've been taught are more economical for my body.

I would say this to you Donny while you may see the benefit of the new guy, you should also not overlook the benefits you have got from your current trainer. Although skills wise and technique-wise he may have not been as good, he has got you some good fights under your belt and conditioned you very well. Looking forward you will have the experience you gained and knowledge of how to condition yourself to incredible now you can look forward to learning the sweeter side and you will be stronger from having that experience.

[Sharla]

Hey Sharla, good to see you back!
As for the Shoulders. Its a defensive movement that I was taught quite some time ago but had completely neglected in recent years.
I think if the force is in the fist you shouldn't feel it in the shoulder


Your point about not asking why is exactly the problem. Too many (including myself) blindly follow trainers instructions. We trust the trainer and almost assume he's the best in the world.

I was told I rely too much on my heart in fights. Pushing through fatigue pain and stamina barriers I can believe that. Having been shown some new things and asked to rely on those techniques makes my life a little easier.

Trainers have a poor understanding of the body.
They pass on what they learned themselves, never pausing to think that they could alter it a little for the better. Thats the problem

Thanks Donny, Glad to be back.

I guess I just need to practice letting my shoulder come up and see what happens. I think I have a bit of a phobia about letting my nack hunch even a little so I've avoided a lot of things in case i hunch my back attempting to do them.

I might have to reexamine how i do them and whether or not my little phobia is based anywhere in reality.

I agree with what you say. The culture sometimes seems to be that it's disrespectful to Q what you do and I'd like to see that change in boxing too.

I also think whatever you do as Diz said you really can't assume the way you've found is the best way.

Most things never reach perfection so it shouldn't be insulting to try to find ways to improve them and you'll never be able to do that without understanding the reasons you do things.

Actually the way you feel about your boxing coaches is exactly how I feel about my PhD supervisor. I'm not sure that this is a boxing specific mentality.

There are some that can look at a student and teach/encourage them to learn and be proud when they think of something new or creative. They want you to develop the mental tools and understanding you need to improve beyond what you are merely told. There are others that just want you to stay in your box whether they are conscious of that or not.

I can see you becoming more and more independent and learning where to pick up the information you need. It may be frustrating but you're not the type to be held back long term by it.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I would say this to you Donny while you may see the benefit of the new guy, you should also not overlook the benefits you have got from your current trainer. Although skills wise and technique-wise he may have not been as good, he has got you some good fights under your belt and conditioned you very well. Looking forward you will have the experience you gained and knowledge of how to condition yourself to incredible now you can look forward to learning the sweeter side and you will be stronger from having that experience.

When I won the regional and nationals, I was largely self trained.
I literally trained alone 5 out of 6 days a week.
Not contradicting you, just some background info!

Thanks Donny, Glad to be back.

I guess I just need to practice letting my shoulder come up and see what happens. I think I have a bit of a phobia about letting my nack hunch even a little so I've avoided a lot of things in case i hunch my back attempting to do them.

I might have to reexamine how i do them and whether or not my little phobia is based anywhere in reality.

I agree with what you say. The culture sometimes seems to be that it's disrespectful to Q what you do and I'd like to see that change in boxing too.

I also think whatever you do as Diz said you really can't assume the way you've found is the best way.

Most things never reach perfection so it shouldn't be insulting to try to find ways to improve them and you'll never be able to do that without understanding the reasons you do things.

Actually the way you feel about your boxing coaches is exactly how I feel about my PhD supervisor. I'm not sure that this is a boxing specific mentality.

There are some that can look at a student and teach/encourage them to learn and be proud when they think of something new or creative. They want you to develop the mental tools and understanding you need to improve beyond what you are merely told. There are others that just want you to stay in your box whether they are conscious of that or not.

I can see you becoming more and more independent and learning where to pick up the information you need. It may be frustrating but you're not the type to be held back long term by it.

Oh I've got a terrible habit of both hunching my back and bending too much, that'll need to be amended!

I can realte with how you feel about both training and the phd.
So many educators, whether it be school/uni or boxing educate by passing on pure theory. They give the information and expect it to be learned by heart, without any real introduction, initiation or background to the subject.
Sometimes all you need is a little more information in order to understand an issue completely

[Sharla]

I would say this to you Donny while you may see the benefit of the new guy, you should also not overlook the benefits you have got from your current trainer. Although skills wise and technique-wise he may have not been as good, he has got you some good fights under your belt and conditioned you very well. Looking forward you will have the experience you gained and knowledge of how to condition yourself to incredible now you can look forward to learning the sweeter side and you will be stronger from having that experience.

When I won the regional and nationals, I was largely self trained.
I literally trained alone 5 out of 6 days a week.
Not contradicting you, just some background info!

Thanks Donny, Glad to be back.

I guess I just need to practice letting my shoulder come up and see what happens. I think I have a bit of a phobia about letting my nack hunch even a little so I've avoided a lot of things in case i hunch my back attempting to do them.

I might have to reexamine how i do them and whether or not my little phobia is based anywhere in reality.

I agree with what you say. The culture sometimes seems to be that it's disrespectful to Q what you do and I'd like to see that change in boxing too.

I also think whatever you do as Diz said you really can't assume the way you've found is the best way.

Most things never reach perfection so it shouldn't be insulting to try to find ways to improve them and you'll never be able to do that without understanding the reasons you do things.

Actually the way you feel about your boxing coaches is exactly how I feel about my PhD supervisor. I'm not sure that this is a boxing specific mentality.

There are some that can look at a student and teach/encourage them to learn and be proud when they think of something new or creative. They want you to develop the mental tools and understanding you need to improve beyond what you are merely told. There are others that just want you to stay in your box whether they are conscious of that or not.

I can see you becoming more and more independent and learning where to pick up the information you need. It may be frustrating but you're not the type to be held back long term by it.

Oh I've got a terrible habit of both hunching my back and bending too much, that'll need to be amended!

I can realte with how you feel about both training and the phd.
So many educators, whether it be school/uni or boxing educate by passing on pure theory. They give the information and expect it to be learned by heart, without any real introduction, initiation or background to the subject.
Sometimes all you need is a little more information in order to understand an issue completely

Yeah I'm not completely sure of how to get around the back hunching thing and still keep your guard up and shoulder up the way I've been told you're meant to.

Still trying to work that one out! Any advice would be great!

Yeah i think you get what i mean with school/uni educators thing. What I've noticed in research is we're NOT supposed to just wrote learn things. We're not given exams and have to regurgitate random facts. We have to problem solve but you still get the resistance to it with some researchers.

With my supervisor anything he didn't come up with it "too complicated" and that means I can't do it and there's no more explanation needed. Often I've already gotten the opinion of other scientists who are more experienced in the field and they approve so i just don't bother asking him anymore. I sneak off, do it and tell him later.

Other times he'll come up with an idea that's impractical because he's come up with it on the spot and not really thought through it but if i suggest something more practical i'm not allowed to modify his idea - even if i KNOW his idea is not going to work - unless i can get back up and permission by going over his head. I always try to get to meetings with him and the CEO to plan my work a little early so i can get things approved without his arguments.

Another PhD student has another supervisor (Russian) and he'll ask her to use grain from her plants for an experiment and plant them up and take measurements and samples for another scientist (Chinese) to analyze. Rather than including her on the meeting with this other scientist he'll just gave her orders and didn't really let her know what the final point of the experiment was going to be etc.

The whole thing was wasted because her Russian supervisor couldn't understand the strong accent of the Chinese scientist and they used the wrong grain. Weeks of work down the drain because he couldn't include her in their meetings. He couldn't relinquish that control.

Even if you're at a stage - where like you - you've been in the game long enough to have the basics and to be able to coach - some people don't like the idea of you having independent thought. They feel threatened by someone having ideas they haven't thought of or by having to see that you've grown beyond that infantile stage.

[Scrap]

Shalaa get a cheap fishing net.

[donnydarkoIRL]

The man to see about that is Scrap.
Honestly, what he showed me in Belfast taught me how to cure that problem and I'm sure he won't mind telling you.

I know what you mean about the educators. This year was in industrial placement for me and I felt I did so much better with the self directed learning. I only wish this was my last year!!!



Is there a board that monitors your supervisors, that you could complain to or make suggestions to in order to improve. It has to be frustrating dealing with people like that. I find they sound a bit arrogant and condescending from you description.
I know you wouldn't like reporting them, but at the end of the day, they're there for you. Their only function is to help your learning not frustrate or hold you back.

As for the language barrier....oh dear....we were in college in our second year. We prepared a project in a group and the lecturer randomnly selected the spesker to present the report in front of the entirter class, our marks would be awarded on this presentation. Randomnly the lectureer assigned a guy with a terrible stutter to be our speaker.
It was entirely up to him whether to sp3eak or not. None of the rest of the group wanted to say "I thinbk we should do it," and he never stepped back from the challenge. I worked especially hard on the report, putting together I would say 80% of the entire project and I knew it was good stuff.

On the day he stood on front of the class and nerves made his stutter worse and worse, making it appear as if the report ahd a million and one holes in it......Disaster....came out with 20%.
I hate being held back by thrid parties.

[Scrap]

Sometime Coaching can be the wound, Not the Bandage thats a Truth

[donnydarkoIRL]

Sometime Coaching can be the wound, Not the Bandage thats a Truth

I know that you know him Scrap and I'd hate to insult him if you're friends,
But thats how I view Graham/Hatton at the moment.

[Howlin Mad Missy]

Scrap, you're starting to sound like Andre