Is calzaghe the most accomplished fighter to receive more hate than love?

[chamiley]

who apart from calzaghe had accomplished so much in a career with public still belittling him

I was a skeptic of calzaghe throughout his career but when he beat Mikkel Kessler I knew enough was enough and gave him his due. but some ppl just astonish me of how they still try come up with new angles to discredit him.

first it was that he never fought another champion and never unified the titles. he does that with lacy who was the favorite to win the fight and all of a sudden lacy was overhyped fighter.

then it was calzaghe only fights limited fighter and fighters not in their prime along comes kessler who was also picked by many to upset calzaghe joe defeats him and all of a sudden kessler is too limited of a fighter.

then the knock was that Calzaghe only fights at home so he comes to states and wins against (whether you believe it or not) hopkins who was supposedly over the hill but who goes on to beat pavlik who would have demolished calzaghe and now everyone says he has to beat hopkins in a rematch to prove himself.

He fights jones just so that there are never any debates that if they had met even with jones being half as good as he once was would calzaghe be able to keep up with him. he wins by a landslide giving the impression that he would have definetly given jones a competitive fight in jones' prime.

I was at first on the bandwagon of calzaghe bashing because in the begining he gave me every reason to question him. but the man in my opinon has paid his dues so I am not sure what is the source of all this hate. I guess he defies all of characteristics of a fighter that we have become accustomed to. he is european, fights in the most unconventional style, throws wide punches, has less power in his punches than his opponent (to calzaghe's credit he has to punch lightly as he has brittle hands and has injured them in the past), doesn't talk trash at press conferences or in build-ups. With all this aside fellows we should give the man his credit, the man just finds a way to win and he just wins.

[Kev]

Yeah possibly, I can't think of any of fighter in similar circumsntances who doesn't get respect.

Look at Juan Manuel Marquez. Fighting at featherweight mostly against unknowns (at least unknown to those outside of a hardcore interest in those divisions)

He has a draw in a great performance with Pacquiao, tempered with a loss albiet somewhat controversial to the at the time completely unknown Chris John.

But he comes up and beats an old Barrera and universally is accepted as one of the greatest p4p fighters by everybody.

I actually think the less is known about a fighter the easier it is to accept them. Nobody pours over old Juan Manuel Marquez fights and shows how in 2003 he struggled against a domestic opponent or something. It's just accepted he's a great fighter, like it was with his brother Rafeal, with Isreal Vazquez, with Ivan Calderon and until he got battered by Darchinyan Christian Mijares. Nobody diseccts their records in the negative way they do to fighters in higher weight classes where their opponents are better known.

Joe's career is so heavily analysed by people that they argue away all of his wins but his resume is immense!


He is without question the number 2 fighter in the world p4p now imo.

[Saddo]

prob between him and Mayweather

[amat]

Was going to say there isn't really an intense dislike of Calzaghe imo just a feeling that he wasn't quite as great as his counterparts at 168-175 but Mayweather people HATE Mayweather. People just think Calzaghe isn't that good.

[OumaFan]

Also he has a very committed fan base which stirs up arguments. ODLH is hated in some ways but he doesn't have that same fan base.

When Zab was overrated and/or more focused he had a much bigger fan base which kind of played into him having a much bigger group of detractors, if that makes any sense.

Not sure it does really.

[HattonTheHammer]

ODLH gets way more abuse on here than JC and doesnt command half the respect he deserves.

I actually just watched the HBO version of last nights fight and couldnt stop laughing at how they were calling the 1st 6-7 rounds as an even fight when calzaghe was just battering RJJ around the ring.

You have to remember these guys have spent years building up RJJ and Hopkins as the greatest p4p fighters in the world only to see some guy from the UK come over and make light work of the pair.

Calzaghe is finally getting the credit he deserves the world over and id very much like to see him eventually made a "sir"

[jack2121]

I have to say i agree with you, the only thing being is that he will never get full credit (from my point of view) for beating jones. I have always been a huge fan of joe's from day one, but i do admit had he met jones in 2000 i dont think he would have won the fight.
Keeping in mind i am british, it was still pissing me off watching calzaghe take apart a an over the hill legend when it would have meant so much more eight years ago when jones was still top dog.
In saying that joe is the man of the momment and deserves recognition for all he has accomplished and can retire happly knowing there is no one left for him to fight.
(not even chad dawson even though that stupid guy from hbo said to joe "would you think of fighting someone younger like chad dawson", atfer the fight on saturday night )

[jack2121]

Yeah possibly, I can't think of any of fighter in similar circumsntances who doesn't get respect.

Look at Juan Manuel Marquez. Fighting at featherweight mostly against unknowns (at least unknown to those outside of a hardcore interest in those divisions)

He has a draw in a great performance with Pacquiao, tempered with a loss albiet somewhat controversial to the at the time completely unknown Chris John.

But he comes up and beats an old Barrera and universally is accepted as one of the greatest p4p fighters by everybody.

I actually think the less is known about a fighter the easier it is to accept them. Nobody pours over old Juan Manuel Marquez fights and shows how in 2003 he struggled against a domestic opponent or something. It's just accepted he's a great fighter, like it was with his brother Rafeal, with Isreal Vazquez, with Ivan Calderon and until he got battered by Darchinyan Christian Mijares. Nobody diseccts their records in the negative way they do to fighters in higher weight classes where their opponents are better known.

Joe's career is so heavily analysed by people that they argue away all of his wins but his resume is immense!


He is without question the number 2 fighter in the world p4p now imo.

here here

[HattonTheHammer]

The HBO commentator who said that to him in the end was bang out of order and would be surprised if he didnt get a ticking off for it.

If you listen back to the HBO commentary the same bloke spent the entire 12rounds claiming the fight was much closer than it actually was and that RJJ was in control in many areas when the rest of the world clearly saw a one sided massacre.

SACK HIM HBO

[Taeth]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

[Kev]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

I disagree completely with that.

EVERYBODY respects Hopkins and Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather as truly great fighters, even those who hate them.

Who on this site wouldn't have Hopkins as one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights of all time? Who wouldn't have Jones Jr as the best fighter of the 90's?

Who wouldn't have Lennox Lewis as the best heavyweight of the 90's and early 2000'?

Of course there will be on or two dissenters, but the overwhelming majority on here would accept they were the best in their weight class.

There are still many people on here who don't think Calzaghe is on the level of Hopkins, Jones Jr, Lewis, Mayweather etc, I get the feeling you are one of them.

So many of you have stated that a prime Jones or a prime Hopkins destroys Calzaghe so he has been particularly singled out for criticism over and above other fighters, at least on boxing fan boards.


He's a terrific fighter though, only Manny Pacquaio is higher on the p4p rankings, Calzaghe should be number 2 without doubt imo. He's now beaten as many marquess fighters as JM Marquez without the losses.

He's a legend and should be regarded as such. I can't think of any fighter who has a comparable level of disrespect than Calzaghe.

I saw a post from ICB a couple months back where he had Christian Mijares above Calzaghe in the p4p rankings for fucks sake

Based on what, wins over Arce and Munoz?

Well we all know how that ended up

[ICB]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

I disagree completely with that.

EVERYBODY respects Hopkins and Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather as truly great fighters, even those who hate them.

Who on this site wouldn't have Hopkins as one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights of all time? Who wouldn't have Jones Jr as the best fighter of the 90's?

Who wouldn't have Lennox Lewis as the best heavyweight of the 90's and early 2000'?

Of course there will be on or two dissenters, but the overwhelming majority on here would accept they were the best in their weight class.

There are still many people on here who don't think Calzaghe is on the level of Hopkins, Jones Jr, Lewis, Mayweather etc, I get the feeling you are one of them.

So many of you have stated that a prime Jones or a prime Hopkins destroys Calzaghe so he has been particularly singled out for criticism over and above other fighters, at least on boxing fan boards.


He's a terrific fighter though, only Manny Pacquaio is higher on the p4p rankings, Calzaghe should be number 2 without doubt imo. He's now beaten as many marquess fighters as JM Marquez without the losses.

He's a legend and should be regarded as such. I can't think of any fighter who has a comparable level of disrespect than Calzaghe.

I saw a post from ICB a couple months back where he had Christian Mijares above Calzaghe in the p4p rankings for fucks sake

Based on what, wins over Arce and Munoz?

Well we all know how that ended up

I've never had Christian Mijares above Joe Calzaghe in the P4P rankings, unless your on about the thread. Where i said that if you think Joe Calzaghe lost to Robin Reid, Bernard Hopkins, where would he be rated in the P4P rankings now.

I don't know why you think im a Joe Calzaghe hater Bilbo, i do give him credit. I just don't think he is as great as you think he is. I think he for certain lost to Robin Reid quite convincingly, and he lost a close one to Bernard Hopkins IMO.

[Taeth]

Who in this era got their respect? Hopkins just got it now by beating Pavlik so one sidedly, but we'll see what Pavlik is made out of. Jones didn't get it, Mayweather didn't get it, Lewis didn't get it. Wait for Calzaghe's career to sink in awhiel

I think the hard thing to see about Calzaghe is that he is greater than the sum of his parts. His very fast, but there have been guys like Jones who were on another level in the speed department comparing the two in their prime. Calzaghe doesn't do things particularly well in the technical department, but then he has this incredible work rate, and he's tough as nails, and its hard to hit him cleanly. He's a great athlete who works his ass off, and most importantly he has an incredible will to win... not even win but to assert his authority on his opponents.

Also the fight wasn't that huge of a domination. Sure Calzaghe won almost every round from that aspect, but he never hurt Jones, he didn't a whole lot of clean shots, most of the night was spent with Calzaghe hitting Jones on the elbows or to the body. It wasn't massacre at all. Calzaghe was hitting Jones' arms at will, but he wasn't landing clean blows at will, he was getting countered everytime Jones threw punches which wasn't often enough, but This wasn't even close to level of domination that Joe had with Jeff Lacy. That was a massacre this was one guy imposing his will on somebody who wasn't doing anything, but the guy imposing his will really didn't hurt the other guy or land very many significant punches.

I am actually surprised by how few clean punches Joe landed on both Hopkins and Jones, I thought Tarver in his first fight landed more hard punches on Jones, and I felt Wright landed more left crosses and right hooks on Hopkins.

As for Joe's record the only thing that is immense about is that he is undefeated and his fights with Bernard Hopkins and Kessler. Eubanks wasn't a particularly good fighter by that point in his career, You ask why he doesn't get respect for his fight against Lacy, well look what Lacy has done since then and in hind sight what he did before he fought Calzaghe. He was having tough fights with D class fighters like Vanderpool.

I disagree completely with that.

EVERYBODY respects Hopkins and Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis and Floyd Mayweather as truly great fighters, even those who hate them.

Who on this site wouldn't have Hopkins as one of the top 3 or 4 middleweights of all time? Who wouldn't have Jones Jr as the best fighter of the 90's?

Who wouldn't have Lennox Lewis as the best heavyweight of the 90's and early 2000'?

Of course there will be on or two dissenters, but the overwhelming majority on here would accept they were the best in their weight class.

There are still many people on here who don't think Calzaghe is on the level of Hopkins, Jones Jr, Lewis, Mayweather etc, I get the feeling you are one of them.

So many of you have stated that a prime Jones or a prime Hopkins destroys Calzaghe so he has been particularly singled out for criticism over and above other fighters, at least on boxing fan boards.


He's a terrific fighter though, only Manny Pacquaio is higher on the p4p rankings, Calzaghe should be number 2 without doubt imo. He's now beaten as many marquess fighters as JM Marquez without the losses.

He's a legend and should be regarded as such. I can't think of any fighter who has a comparable level of disrespect than Calzaghe.

I saw a post from ICB a couple months back where he had Christian Mijares above Calzaghe in the p4p rankings for fucks sake

Based on what, wins over Arce and Munoz?

Well we all know how that ended up

Mayweather absolutely doesn't get the respect he deserves, him, Hopkins, Jones have always gotten the same flack Joe has.

IMO and in the general consensus Joe has been number 2 or 1 on almost everybodies list. I think his really close fight with Hopkins casted some doubt on that because he was knocked down, Hopkins clearly looked old, and all that good stuff.

Pacquaio has a incredible resume, he has foughten great fighters, and he has come out like 7-1-1 against them or something.

I go back and forward on the Calzaghe vs Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins prime vs prime thing. I think he has that incredible will that could really cause them problems, and Roy had that problem with Montell Griffin where he became too much of an artist in the ring that he forgot sort of how to box. If he fought like that I think Calzaghe beats him prime for prime or Roy wakes up late and we would see if in his prime he had the power to knock Calzaghe out. I think Roy has a special quality that makes him a difficult opponent for any fighter in the history of the sport.

As for Hopkins- Calzaghe, I think its a tough fight, but Hopkins rough style has been difficult for Calzaghe in the past when lesser fighters have done it. I think he HAD that same desire to impose his will on his opponent, it would be a great fight. It would be Calzaghe's speed vs Hopkins' amazing technique and ring intelligence.

As for Lennox Lewis maybe in Brittain they think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but in the States they sure didn't, they thought he was untested, when I think he could likely beat all of the great heavyweights that have ever fought. I truly can't see the small heavyweights like Joe Louis or Dempsey or those guys standing chance because they are too small, I see Ali have whole ton of trouble with a guy like Lewis who can box well and is bigger than him and still fast. I see Foreman and Frazier getting picked apart by Lewis.

[The Fightfan]

my answer to the question. Yes

[ICB]

What about Larry Holmes ? he always lived in Muhammad Ali's shadow, and was never given credit until he retired.