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Thread: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

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    Default Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Coming off the Klitzchko vs Tyson thread, I thought this would be an interesting concept......
    The danger, and I'm sure I'll succumb to it, is forgetting someone who belongs.....but here goes....

    1. Lennox Lewis - Underated throughout his career. Defeated every opponent he ever faced. Was feared enugh to be ducked by Tyson and Riddick Bowe. Huge puncher, intelligent boxer. All-time great, just beginning to get his due. Left the game on top, and never looked back....probably the greatest indicator of his intelligence....in and out of the ring.

    2. Larry Holmes - I'm not the biggest Holmes fan,but the man was tough and could fight. The brawl with Ken Norton is among the greatest heavyweight fights ever. And that Jab......

    3. Evander Holyfield - His reputation will be sullied by his insitance that he'll regain the unified title as he fights until he gets that dream match with Rocky Balboa, but when you look at what he was from the early 1990s through to the fights with Lewis, their is no doubt, he was the Real Deal....

    The drop of from the top three, and really after the top two is significant....but....

    4. Riddick Bowe - I am not at all a Riddick Bowe fan, but the three fights with Holyfield were classics, and he paid the price for them. Was as tough as nails though, as he showed in those three fights and his "wins" versus Andrew Golota....Because he beat Holyfield twice, lostonly once (three times if Golota had a brain..,) and was as big and strong as he was, he places over Tyson. Because he dumped away a title rather than fighting Lennox Lewis, and his span at the top was so small, he has to go beneath Hiolyfield..

    5. Mike Tyson - I'm not sure he belongs even this high, but his reputation and legend make him rank higher than he probably should, and I'd guess he'll be higher for most other posters....but really, whom did he beat? When did he stand up to a challenge? Where was the real heart of a champion? Oh yeah, and whom did he beat? His time at the top was monumental for its media spectacle, but also, really, he was only at the top for between two and four years. Could he have been so much more and lived up to the promise....probably....but he did not....He did however, thankfully, unify the title....his greatest accomplishment...

    6. George Foreman - OK, he is here on the strength of one win, and maybe one loss. Was he the Foreman of 1973 - 1977? No....but wouldn't you have to give the old George a pretty good chance against the young lion? Sure, he lost almost every minute against Michael Moorer.....but he erased the previous 9 1/2 rounds with a perfect one-two.....Then there was his collision with Holyfield. Did he lose? Certainly, but I have always felt he took a measure of Holyfield's greatness out of him in that fight. Evander NEVER threw combinations the same way again, and never seemed to have the same energy. As for his other fights, George won a lot more than he lost, and sometimes seemd to be holding back his real power shots to not hurt the opponents - maybe, maybe not. I would have picked old or young George to defeat Mike Tyson. All I need to say is Don King pushed for the mega-fight between the two, only to have his charge retort....if you want it so bad, You fight George!!!

    7. Wladimir Klitzchko - It's not all over for the current #1 Heavyweight in the world, but he has shown himself to be a sort of "Lennox Lewis - Lite."
    He often lacks stamina and then his chin seems worse than it is, but he is an explosive offensive fighter who's size makes him a threat to any challenger. The David Haye fight could, in soime ways, make him, or, most definately should he lore, destroy his legacy.

    8. Vitali Klizchko - Better Chin than his brother, and more fun to watch, I've always contended he was the better of the two. Showed it against Lennox Lewis, before the cut caused his loss in what was building toward a great Heavyweight title fight. This end of his career will define where he really stands, but there's little not to like about him....

    9. MIchael Moorer - Listening to Teddy Atlas against Foreman, in what was moving towards being his greatest fight, and a little more discipline - or, ok, a lot more could have seen him move way up on this list. First left-handed Heavyweight Champion in forever, and one of the few Light-Heavyweights to make the jump to heavy. Could have been so much more...

    10. Ike Ibeabuchi - Talk about what could have been. The President had it all, except the wherewithal to behave in a coherent, societally acceptable manner. Here's a 6'2" plus guy who could throw over 100 punches a round and keep going. Tough as nails and powerful. Able to withstand huge blows form big punchers.....Ike could have been THE heavyweight of his generation...then threw it all away......


    Also rans.......all of the WBA and then WBC champs of the 1980s - and a few contenders.....JohnRuiz, Nikolai Valuev, Greg Page, Gerrie Coetzee, Mike Weaver, Gerry Cooney, Chris Byrd, David Tua, etc......too many to remember.....and oh yeah......Buster Douglas......I just hope I didn't forget anyone on the top ten list.....but Bruce Seldon, Frank Bruno, and the like won't crack it, and niether will Michael Spinks......

    Love to hear your thoughts.....

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Gandalf, are we talking just primes?

    First of all I'd switch Holmes and Lewis, on the basis of their title reigns. Then I'd put a pre-jail Tyson into the top 3, he might just be #1, prime Tyson was awesome, but it depnds on your criteria for greatness I guess.

    Holyfield drops to fourth at least. maybe more. Prime Bowe is better than prime Holyfield, but was he greater? I suppose, depnding on what is great.

    Klitschkos have potential to rise, depnding on who climbs the ranks to challenge them.

    Foreman is overrated. especially post Ali Foreman. But he did generate a lot of excitement, or should I say nostalgia.

    That's it.

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    This Thread should be moved to the Mains.

    Could be a great thread.
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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Quote Originally Posted by CGM View Post
    Gandalf, are we talking just primes?

    First of all I'd switch Holmes and Lewis, on the basis of their title reigns. Then I'd put a pre-jail Tyson into the top 3, he might just be #1, prime Tyson was awesome, but it depnds on your criteria for greatness I guess.

    Holyfield drops to fourth at least. maybe more. Prime Bowe is better than prime Holyfield, but was he greater? I suppose, depnding on what is great.

    Klitschkos have potential to rise, depnding on who climbs the ranks to challenge them.

    Foreman is overrated. especially post Ali Foreman. But he did generate a lot of excitement, or should I say nostalgia.

    That's it.
    i agree with the tyson pre jail in top 3, and holyfeild in bottom 6, i would have put morrison in top 4 pre HIV scare and keep holmes where he is , he was a great fighter, he was ali's sparring partner and never got the rckog he deserved, i would also put there marciano and lewis, even spieling they where all tough, not as heavy as the new breads of heavy but all the same power, i would also like to rate TUA, he was never given a masive shot other than lewis, i guess he went in there scared as most people did, thats just my thought but all hail to heavyweight fighters for sticking it out over the years, it went from best division to greed then to shambles and the ones still there are really trying to succeed in the division.

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Good post mate

    Its difficult to choose between Lewis and Holmes but based on achievements and title reign like mentioned - and not being complacent so as to suffer defeat ! - I would say Holmes just edges it. Then again if the two met in their prime I would fancy Lewis to win

    I think we should talk about Tyson as a whole rather than pre-jail Tyson (we don't talk about pre-jail Ali) in which case I think you've got him in just about the right place NB I believe its ok to talk about two Foremans as they were 10 years apart (and 2000 cheeseburgers ).

    I would also put Vitali above Wlad - though there's time for these two to cement their places.

    Where is Pele Reid ?!?!?
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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Great idea for a thread

    I'd go with something like this.....

    1.) Larry Holmes
    2.) Mike Tyson
    3.) Lennox Lewis
    4.) Riddick Bowe
    5.) Evander Holyfield
    6.) Vitali Klitchko


    Then it's a toss up - names like Tim Witherspoon, Ike Ibeabuchi, Tony Tucker, Michael Moorer, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Razor Ruddock

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithrandir View Post
    5. Mike Tyson - I'm not sure he belongs even this high... really, whom did he beat?
    How about everyone from 1986 to 1989. And that includes knocking most of them unconscious: A first round knockout of undefeated heavyweight champion, Michael Spinks; the only person ever to knock out Larry Holmes; he ruined undefeated Gold medalist, Tyrel Bigs, and was the youngest heavyweight alphabet titlist ever.

    That being said, I think your list is pretty good. I would just switch Tyson with Bowe, who really only had one significant victory in his carrer: Bowe vs Holyfield I.

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Yup. Tyson's opposition was definitely better than Joe Louis' Rocky Marciano's, Jack Dempsey's, Sonny Liston's and arguably Larry Holmes. Which Heavyweight's in history have a great resume of names (that they beat) Ali ? and.................. ??

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Quote Originally Posted by BIG H View Post
    Yup. Tyson's opposition was definitely better than Joe Louis' Rocky Marciano's, Jack Dempsey's, Sonny Liston's and arguably Larry Holmes. Which Heavyweight's in history have a great resume of names (that they beat) Ali ? and.................. ??
    That is a good point. During Ali's era the heavyweight division was like super heros fighting other super heros. Every other era consisted of a super hero fighting regular men.

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Great thread, mithrandir has won me over already....


    1- Mike Tyson
    2-Lennox Lewis
    3- Larry Holmes
    4-George Foreman
    5-Evander Holyfield
    6-Riddick Bowe
    7-Vitali Klitschko
    8-Oliver McCall
    9-Wladimir Klitschko
    10-Tyrell Biggs (please dont laugh)
    one dangerous horrible bloke

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Quote Originally Posted by hattonthehammer View Post
    Great thread, mithrandir has won me over already....


    1- Mike Tyson
    2-Lennox Lewis
    3- Larry Holmes
    4-George Foreman
    5-Evander Holyfield
    6-Riddick Bowe
    7-Vitali Klitschko
    8-Oliver McCall
    9-Wladimir Klitschko
    10-Tyrell Biggs (please dont laugh)
    Now your comment about Valuev beating Holyfield makes sense. I can see by your above list that you are probably one of those young, naive boxing fans who greatly overrates Tyson. And you probably like to use the pharse "a prime mike tyson" because you think it gives your argument more credibility, as if all other fighters aren't judged by their prime.

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Great thread! tough call but here how I have it:

    1- Larry Holmes
    2-Lennox Lewis
    3- Evander Holyfield
    4-Mike Tyson
    5-George Foreman
    6-Riddick Bowe
    7-Wlad Klitschko
    8-Michael Moorer
    9-Vitali Klitschko
    10-Cant think of anyone else worth mention..
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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hattonthehammer View Post
    Great thread, mithrandir has won me over already....


    1- Mike Tyson
    2-Lennox Lewis
    3- Larry Holmes
    4-George Foreman
    5-Evander Holyfield
    6-Riddick Bowe
    7-Vitali Klitschko
    8-Oliver McCall
    9-Wladimir Klitschko
    10-Tyrell Biggs (please dont laugh)
    Now your comment about Valuev beating Holyfield makes sense. I can see by your above list that you are probably one of those young, naive boxing fans who greatly overrates Tyson. And you probably like to use the pharse "a prime mike tyson" because you think it gives your argument more credibility, as if all other fighters aren't judged by their prime.

    Fighters like tyson, RJJ are very unique in that stating in their "prime" is almost saying they were unbeatable.

    Tyson went through guys who in this day would own the heavys like the complete animal he was and if you must ask me YES a prime tyson would of probably gone through every single one of those others on the list bar lewis through sheer aggression.

    technically he probably wouldnt even make a top 10 list but love him or hate him the guy was a complete monster in his prime
    one dangerous horrible bloke

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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    No love for Tye Fields
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    Default Re: Top ten Heavyweights in the post Ali Era

    Quote Originally Posted by hattonthehammer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hattonthehammer View Post
    Great thread, mithrandir has won me over already....


    1- Mike Tyson
    2-Lennox Lewis
    3- Larry Holmes
    4-George Foreman
    5-Evander Holyfield
    6-Riddick Bowe
    7-Vitali Klitschko
    8-Oliver McCall
    9-Wladimir Klitschko
    10-Tyrell Biggs (please dont laugh)
    Now your comment about Valuev beating Holyfield makes sense. I can see by your above list that you are probably one of those young, naive boxing fans who greatly overrates Tyson. And you probably like to use the pharse "a prime mike tyson" because you think it gives your argument more credibility, as if all other fighters aren't judged by their prime.

    Fighters like tyson, RJJ are very unique in that stating in their "prime" is almost saying they were unbeatable.

    Tyson went through guys who in this day would own the heavys like the complete animal he was and if you must ask me YES a prime tyson would of probably gone through every single one of those others on the list bar lewis through sheer aggression.

    technically he probably wouldnt even make a top 10 list but love him or hate him the guy was a complete monster in his prime
    So my call was accurate; your one of those people. If you continue to follow the sport, eventually you will gain a greater perspective, and you will understand why some of the older boxing fans think you "prime tyson" analysis is funny.

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