The Thrilla in Manilla Documentary

[El Kabong]

Anyone watching this on HBO

[El Kabong]

...it is just tragic the way Ali treated Joe, and Ali gets the praise and the glory and all Joe gets is the satisfaction of beating up Ali in all 3 fights....he lost 2 of them but Frazier hurt him there is no denying that.

[boozeboxer]

the ref was a filipino movie star. Who would have thought.

[XaduBoxer]

the ref was a filipino movie star. Who would have thought.

He's a world class referee, Carlos Padilla ... He's the first preference to referee coz the fight was in Manila, Philippines...
.

[:::PSL:::]

the ref was a filipino movie star. Who would have thought.

He's a world class referee, Carlos Padilla ... He's the first preference to referee coz the fight was in Manila, Philippines...
.

Yep. He reffed so many high profile world championships.

[the_PRODIGY]

the ref was a filipino movie star. Who would have thought.

You think that's weird? Hell I heard the round girls were the President's daughter.oops

[The Fightfan]

...it is just tragic the way Ali treated Joe, and Ali gets the praise and the glory and all Joe gets is the satisfaction of beating up Ali in all 3 fights....he lost 2 of them but Frazier hurt him there is no denying that.

I watched this documentary and I really got angry. If you choose Ali you were right and if Frazier you were a racist or an uncle Tom. What a crock of shit. Nevermind the fact that Frazier was just a hard nosed blue collared fighter who worked his whole life since he was a kid and Ali was a middle-class school enrolled student who was bred for olympic glory. Something oddley enough when Ali called Frazier an Uncle Tom and a pure nigger. When Frazier was actually treated like a slave his whole life and had to fight for everything he got. I kept saying god damn people were stupid back then. Here is a man who has done nothing to nobody just won the heavyweight crown by KO,and didn't hype himself as "The Greatest" kept his mouth shut and did his job,also helped his friend Ali in need by giving him money when he was flat broke,then get's him back into the ring, then Ali spits back in his face by destroying Frazier's life and Frazier's children from simple childish name calling and the stupid ass media ate the shit up. Fuck everyone who was ever involved with that and thought it was ok. And FUCK Ferdie Pachaceo another piece of shit after that stupid stupid interview last night saying " it was great ". Sorry I'm getting a little pissed off again. But in the end Frazier is still pissed and rightfully so. Fuck Ali for doing that who was his FRIEND in the beginning. He is a backstabbing piece of shit in my mind.

[El Kabong]

Oh I am certainly pissed off about it too...Ali does all this EVIL stuff, he never got called on it, nobody ever said "this is wrong" not even Jesse Jackson who if I'm not mistaken has always been opposed to racism, Bryant Gumbel even WILLINGLY participated in the racism against Joe Frazier with the article "Is Joe Frazier a white champion in black skin"

And yet after doing all this crap Ali makes the money, Ali is the icon, Ali is "The Greatest of All-Time"....and all Joe has is his gym and his comparative good health.

Also guys like Gumbel and Jackson are still around spouting their views on race....you already gave us your views and they were fucking wrong 30 years ago and they are wrong right now!

This documentary described in detail why I have a hard time respecting Muhammed Ali as a person.

[Nameless]

I like Ali as a boxer, hate him as a person and I am unfortunate enough to not have access to HBO at the moment, hopefully it'll be uploaded somewhere eventually so I can see it and give my opinion about the documentary.

[BoomBoom]

Id love to see the documentary. Ill be completely honest, ive always been a fan of Ali and respected him as a person, but I wasnt around during that era so all Ive heard about Ali is the good. Unfortunately, like everything else the media puts its spin on things and ultimately we get cheated out of the ablity to develop our own opinions based on facts.

[:::PSL:::]

Lots of hate and politics with their rivalry. And wtf, Ali fired 3 gun shots outside the hotel balcony that they were staying?

[Majesty]

I think its ignorant for people to watch the documentary and then say they hate Ali as a person.

Ali has already apologized and said he was hyping a fight, he holds no remorse towards Frazier and even apologized to his son. Frazier to this day is proud of what he has done to Ali and won't let it go nor be forgiving. How someone can praise Frazier for that and yet hate Ali for manning up and apologizing and saying he was wrong is beyond my understanding. Frazier even has it on his ring tone what he has done to Ali, yet people praise him and put Ali all in the wrong here? It was 30 years ago, and Ali has since apologized a long time ago, Frazier still holds onto it and is happy about what he did. How can you defend a man that says Ali "deserved to be thrown into the fire" at the Olympics?

And how can you throw out the 60 million he put into a Center that focuses on peace respect and responsibility in Louisville, thats also a non profit organization. Just throw out, throw out his humanitarian efforts through his global travels since his retirement, and throw out the 20 million plus meals he's provided for the hungry more then 200 days a year, throw out all the great things he's done since his retirement becoming a greater person then some people could wish to be, just throw all that out because of him hyping the fight with Joe Frazier which he apologized for, fuck any fan that says he hates Ali as a person. And thats from the bottom of my heart, and it may seem harsh but fuck whoever judges Ali as a person because of his actions in that one part of his life which he has apologized for. Keep praising Frazier for holding onto it and not accepting apologies and putting his love for what he's done to Ali in his ringtone almost 30 years later and praise him for nearly making Ali cry when at a personal appearance Joe got on a speaker saying "I guess we know who won those fights now don't we."

I don't get where people come from so times or how fast boxing fans can switch sides because of a documentary while ignoring all the things someone has done in their life since. Fuck any boxing fan who turns their back on Ali all because of one documentary thats not even relevant to what he is doing now.

[RozzySean]

I think its ignorant for people to watch the documentary and then say they hate Ali as a person.

Ali has already apologized and said he was hyping a fight, he holds no remorse towards Frazier and even apologized to his son. Frazier to this day is proud of what he has done to Ali and won't let it go nor be forgiving. How someone can praise Frazier for that and yet hate Ali for manning up and apologizing and saying he was wrong is beyond my understanding. Frazier even has it on his ring tone what he has done to Ali, yet people praise him and put Ali all in the wrong here? It was 30 years ago, and Ali has since apologized a long time ago, Frazier still holds onto it and is happy about what he did. How can you defend a man that says Ali "deserved to be thrown into the fire" at the Olympics?

And how can you throw out the 60 million he put into a Center that focuses on peace respect and responsibility in Louisville, thats also a non profit organization. Just throw out, throw out his humanitarian efforts through his global travels since his retirement, and throw out the 20 million plus meals he's provided for the hungry more then 200 days a year, throw out all the great things he's done since his retirement becoming a greater person then some people could wish to be, just throw all that out because of him hyping the fight with Joe Frazier which he apologized for, fuck any fan that says he hates Ali as a person. And thats from the bottom of my heart, and it may seem harsh but fuck whoever judges Ali as a person because of his actions in that one part of his life which he has apologized for. Keep praising Frazier for holding onto it and not accepting apologies and putting his love for what he's done to Ali in his ringtone almost 30 years later and praise him for nearly making Ali cry when at a personal appearance Joe got on a speaker saying "I guess we know who won those fights now don't we."

I don't get where people come from so times or how fast boxing fans can switch sides because of a documentary while ignoring all the things someone has done in their life since. Fuck any boxing fan who turns their back on Ali all because of one documentary thats not even relevant to what he is doing now.

You have a point that at some point, it's time to grow up and forgive. I think a lot of why Frazier won't let it go is because he was so supportive of Ali when the chips were down for him, and then he turned on him. Combine this with the Ali's legacy and the fact the he was never held accountable by the public for being so horrible, it's a bitter pill to swallow. Ali should have apologized to Frazier man to man.

Like any other person, Ali did things that were both positive and negative. Ali certainly did many positive things with this fame and fortune. If not for those things, he would be remembered very differently. But there is no denying that for most of his career, Ali was an egotistical, hypocritical, self serving jerk. And there's no denying Frazier got the short end of the stick.

[Majesty]

You have a point that at some point, it's time to grow up and forgive. I think a lot of why Frazier won't let it go is because he was so supportive of Ali when the chips were down for him, and then he turned on him. Combine this with the Ali's legacy and the fact the he was never held accountable by the public for being so horrible, it's a bitter pill to swallow. Ali should have apologized to Frazier man to man.

Like any other person, Ali did things that were both positive and negative. Ali certainly did many positive things with this fame and fortune. If not for those things, he would be remembered very differently. But there is no denying that for most of his career, Ali was an egotistical, hypocritical, self serving jerk. And there's no denying Frazier got the short end of the stick.

In boxing hype always gets out of control, I don't see anyone saying Larry Holmes is a bad guy for playing the race card in the Gerry Cooney fight and turning it into something huge in which Jesse Jackson actually HAD to interfere.

One thing about Ali that everyone knew is that he hyped every fight the same way he talked a lot of trash during the hype, did a lot of egotistical things before and during it, but Bert Sugar said it best when he said that Ali did it in a playful way and always showed respect afterwards, I believe he said it when he was comparing the way Floyd Mayweather talked trash and the way Ali did.

Ali is looked at as the greatest for more then just his boxing career but what he has done afterwards. It's not like Ali gets the credit for being the greatest for nothing, Ali went and did something positive in his life and in attempts to help make others lives better. Ali got his reputation as the greatest for what he has done after boxing and all the effort he put into helping others. So to say Joe got the short end of the stick is bullshit in my opinion, because its not like Ali retired, did nothing, and got the credit. Know what I mean?

And let's not forget that Ali WAS held horrible in the account of the public for his antics and got death threats and things as well, and you can bet your ass Joe Frazier wasn't the only person who suffered.

My whole thing is, it's not always what someone does, but what they do after.

After all was said and done, Ali called Frazier great, gave him the credit he deserved, and apologized for all he has done. And even to this day has tried to reconcile with Frazier and Joe decides not to, to this day.

People want to say that Ali is an egotistical hypocrite and such, but then they go and ignore that on the first documentary of these two(on the first fight) Frazier said near the end of it that he has swallowed many razor blades in his career and that they cut inside and that if he has said anything thats hurt Ali he just wanted to say, hey man, he was sorry.

And then he turns around in this documentary and completely goes back on that. Why is no one talking about that? Why is everyone ONLY talking about what Ali's done? Thats as unfair as people are saying Ali gets the treatment as the greatest, in my opinion.

But like i said, I try to look at how people end these feuds, Ali has gone on to do great things as a person and in the community and tried to reconcile with Frazier, Frazier still chooses not to. And that's not Ali's fault. You cannot fault a man for trying and Ali has tried time and time again to make things right with Frazier who keeps refusing. If Ali had done nothing and just went "screw frazier i beat him i don't care" then I understand people saying they don't respect him. But Ali has apologized to his son, apologized, and tried to this day to make things right with Frazier who still refuses. So how can Joe say "why didn't he come to me and apologize" when to this day Ali has tried and Frazier doesn't accept it. How can you blame Ali for trying?

[JazMerkin]

There are some very fucked up things that Ali said to Frazier, and they do make you angry, but people trying to paint Ali as some middle-class knob who had it all at the time ignores the realities of pre-civil rights America and is clearly either a tool or a prick. Some of the stuff Ali said, particularly the gorilla thing went too far, and he has more than readily admitted that how he treated Frazier was disgraceful & ranks with his treatment of Malcolm X after his ex-communication as the most shameful moments of his life. Frazier in no way deserved the treatment he got before his fights with Ali, however, the pleasure he takes in Ali having Parkinsons is disgusting, and when even his own family believe he has to let it go & stop with the hate then maybe there's something to it. Frazier has no problem 'making up' with Ali every time there's a money opportunity for him, then going back to spewing abuse. You can't call on Ali without then doing the same to Frazier. As for the documentary, it is typical of all documentaries (I've made some so I know) the filmaker only shows you what he wants to, they only use Ferdie Pacheco (who I've long thought of as a media-hungry moron) from the 'Ali side'. It is only at the end that it hints at anything that might not show Frazier in a favourable light, and even then it isn't as forceful with it as it is when showing Ali as a bastard. The pair of them both have things they should be proud & ashamed of in their lives, as we all do.