Randy Couture attempting to lure Hatton into MMA?

[rjj tszyu]

A nice little boxrec internet warrior rant.

He got tko'd over 10 years ago the same year that Manny Pacquaio was ko'd by Singsurat ( I have boxrec and google too) what relavence does that have to anything now exactly?

I'm guessing he's probably improved a little bit as a fighter between now and then, and his skills extend well beyond just boxing.

If you fight Silva in a boxing ring, you are fighting him minus 80 percent of his skills. It's like an infantryman boasting he took out a fighter jet with a bazooka but then you find out the fighter jet was still on the runway, not quite such an heroic act as you thought........

Actually I didn't look at Boxrec to get that, it's common knowledge.

I don't actually mind MMA but they are not on the same level as top boxers IMO. When you see a 40 year old Roy Jones throw 7 left hooks in one second, then that to me is an awesome athlete who is nowhere near his best anymore but I never see any striking of that quality in MMA.

I think that if MMA gets bigger purses, to match the top boxing matches ($10,000,000+) then they will start getting natural freak athletes like the Roy Jones' and Floyd Mayweather's parents training them from being 2 years old at MMA. Then they will have the likes of these who can do these unthinkable things. As for Anderson Silva, I've seen interviews with him where he talks of how great an athlete Roy Jones is and how he'd love the natural gifts of Jones. He also used to call himself the Roy Jones of MMA.

It's common knowledge, but taken from the internet.

Have you actually seen the fight? How badly was he knocked out?

As for throwing 7 punches a second like Roy Jones, of course not, no MMA star is as a good a boxer as Roy Jones, but that's only around 25% of their skill set.

It's like saying all the running backs and wide receivers in the NFL are shit because they are so slow compared to Usain Bolt.

Yes but IMO punching is the most lethal weapon a fighter has. It's the omst accurate and by far the fastest striking technique, Yet the two boxers that I mentioned earlier, and have made a good living in MMA, cannot do anything like Jones and are similar in size. Surely they trained their hands when they were strictly boxers?? My answer would be they are not naturally as gifted and fast as Jones, not many, if any are!

[blegit]

Actually I didn't look at Boxrec to get that, it's common knowledge.

I don't actually mind MMA but they are not on the same level as top boxers IMO. When you see a 40 year old Roy Jones throw 7 left hooks in one second, then that to me is an awesome athlete who is nowhere near his best anymore but I never see any striking of that quality in MMA.

I think that if MMA gets bigger purses, to match the top boxing matches ($10,000,000+) then they will start getting natural freak athletes like the Roy Jones' and Floyd Mayweather's parents training them from being 2 years old at MMA. Then they will have the likes of these who can do these unthinkable things. As for Anderson Silva, I've seen interviews with him where he talks of how great an athlete Roy Jones is and how he'd love the natural gifts of Jones. He also used to call himself the Roy Jones of MMA.

It's common knowledge, but taken from the internet.

Have you actually seen the fight? How badly was he knocked out?

As for throwing 7 punches a second like Roy Jones, of course not, no MMA star is as a good a boxer as Roy Jones, but that's only around 25% of their skill set.

It's like saying all the running backs and wide receivers in the NFL are shit because they are so slow compared to Usain Bolt.

Yes but IMO punching is the most lethal weapon a fighter has. It's the omst accurate and by far the fastest striking technique, Yet the two boxers that I mentioned earlier, and have made a good living in MMA, cannot do anything like Jones and are similar in size. Surely they trained their hands when they were strictly boxers?? My answer would be they are not naturally as gifted and fast as Jones, not many, if any are!

I think some boxing fans are not being real when it comes to MMA. I don't know Marcus Davis but an easy look up shows he did better in boxing than MMA. He even described himself as one dimensional and has trouble when he is taken to the ground. Marcus Davis hasn't done anything in MMA. I am from Indianapolis and I do know of Chris Lytle. He was not a boxer. He is a wrestler who later took on boxing and a lot of martial arts also. So Lytle's accomplishments in MMA is not a boxer having success. Lytle was a very good wrestler before he was anything else. Lytle is well rounded and has actual ground skills. He is not a one dimensional boxer who is having his way in MMA. Lytle is a well rounded athlete who is having success in MMA.

[Kev]

It's common knowledge, but taken from the internet.

Have you actually seen the fight? How badly was he knocked out?

As for throwing 7 punches a second like Roy Jones, of course not, no MMA star is as a good a boxer as Roy Jones, but that's only around 25% of their skill set.

It's like saying all the running backs and wide receivers in the NFL are shit because they are so slow compared to Usain Bolt.

Yes but IMO punching is the most lethal weapon a fighter has. It's the omst accurate and by far the fastest striking technique, Yet the two boxers that I mentioned earlier, and have made a good living in MMA, cannot do anything like Jones and are similar in size. Surely they trained their hands when they were strictly boxers?? My answer would be they are not naturally as gifted and fast as Jones, not many, if any are!

I think some boxing fans are not being real when it comes to MMA. I don't know Marcus Davis but an easy look up shows he did better in boxing than MMA. He even described himself as one dimensional and has trouble when he is taken to the ground. Marcus Davis hasn't done anything in MMA. I am from Indianapolis and I do know of Chris Lytle. He was not a boxer. He is a wrestler who later took on boxing and a lot of martial arts also. So Lytle's accomplishments in MMA is not a boxer having success. Lytle was a very good wrestler before he was anything else. Lytle is well rounded and has actual ground skills. He is not a one dimensional boxer who is having his way in MMA. Lytle is a well rounded athlete who is having success in MMA.

It's also worth noting that by far the most succesful crossover was from MMA to boxing with Matt Skelton, leaving K-1 in his early 30's and taking up boxing at 34 and getting all the way to a world title shot against Ruslan Chagaev.

Then you have guys like the Irish cabbie Marty Rogan becoming Commonwealth champ having only started boxing in his mid 30's.

It's ridiculous to suggest that because Anderson Silva lost a boxing fight over 10 years ago that he isn't an elite athlete now.

Skills for skills he is absolutely at the level of a Roy Jones or a Floyd Mayweather, as is Georges St Pieree, Cung Lee and Lyoto Machida.

Sure none of them can throw 7 hooks in a second but all four of them would kill Roy Jones in a real fight.

[amat]

Sure none of them can throw 7 hooks in a second but all four of them would kill Roy Jones in a real fight.

What a ridiculous statement, what makes you so sure that Machida's karate style would "kill" Roy Jones? That's absurd. I personally think if anyone implemented pure boxing into their skillset like Machida did karate or Karo did judo, that they would have a fair amount of success. If Mayweather could pick off Hatton coming forward for punches, what would Sean Sherk or any other MMAer do to give him any trouble? Explain to me what Machida, St. Pierre and Cung Le would do that would give RJJ absolutely no shot in a bout.

"But on the ground...."

Do they start on the ground? No. And with 4 oz gloves my money would be on the boxer who took the challenge seriously. Now go away with this "in a real fight" garbage. This whole argument is garbage (on both sides) but especially that statement. How ridiculous. Chuck Liddell KO'd guys with the shittiest counterpunching technique of all time, it's not beyond a boxer to do the same.

[mnmc10]

As for Brock Lesnar, Vitali Klitschko would KO him quick if he came charging in head first the way he does in the UFC fights. There is very little lateral movement in MMA and the likes of Vitali would just use simple movement to position himself for a KO blow.

and if vitali misses that one punch ko, he would be tackled down to the ground for sure. vitalis punches will have little effect if he is lying down. i wonder also how can vitali defend against an arm bar?

boxers are best at.. boxing. mma fighters are best in submissions, wrestlling and kicking.

[Myk_Myk]

By necessity MMA fighters are more or less "Jacks of All Trades, Masters of None". Time and again you see champion Judo fighters, Muay Thai fighers, or Jujitsu fighters do well up to a point, only to run into someone strong in an opposing skill take them out. So, inevitably they have to start spending time on their weak skill sets to be competitive in MMA; which of course lessons their proficiency at their specialty to some degree.

I'm sure it would be the same if an elite boxer in their prime switched over. With some minimal take down defense they might do well up to a certain point. Then they would reach a limit, and would have to start shifting their concentration. RJJ or Vitali would be no exception, because sooner of later a strong wrestler would get them to the ground, maybe even if they were knocked down with a punch first

Taking those lead left hooks that Mayweather and Pac landed on him and subtract all but 4 ounces of padding and things could get very ugly and dangerous for Hatton. Also his tendencies to clinch could see him getting thown or taken down a lot. He's need more than a few ground work cram sessions with Couture.

I agree with this. I think another aspect that would enable a boxer to be successful in MMA is if they wrestled in HS or college.

I agree that the top MMA fighters are extremely talented. However I'm not sure the talent pool is as deep as it is in boxing... yet.

[Snakey]

Am i the only one that finds it funny that a great wreslter like randy cotoure is a fan of ricky hatton? Is he a fan of hattons boxing or his wrestling?

[rjj tszyu]

Yes but IMO punching is the most lethal weapon a fighter has. It's the omst accurate and by far the fastest striking technique, Yet the two boxers that I mentioned earlier, and have made a good living in MMA, cannot do anything like Jones and are similar in size. Surely they trained their hands when they were strictly boxers?? My answer would be they are not naturally as gifted and fast as Jones, not many, if any are!

I think some boxing fans are not being real when it comes to MMA. I don't know Marcus Davis but an easy look up shows he did better in boxing than MMA. He even described himself as one dimensional and has trouble when he is taken to the ground. Marcus Davis hasn't done anything in MMA. I am from Indianapolis and I do know of Chris Lytle. He was not a boxer. He is a wrestler who later took on boxing and a lot of martial arts also. So Lytle's accomplishments in MMA is not a boxer having success. Lytle was a very good wrestler before he was anything else. Lytle is well rounded and has actual ground skills. He is not a one dimensional boxer who is having his way in MMA. Lytle is a well rounded athlete who is having success in MMA.

It's also worth noting that by far the most succesful crossover was from MMA to boxing with Matt Skelton, leaving K-1 in his early 30's and taking up boxing at 34 and getting all the way to a world title shot against Ruslan Chagaev.

Then you have guys like the Irish cabbie Marty Rogan becoming Commonwealth champ having only started boxing in his mid 30's.

It's ridiculous to suggest that because Anderson Silva lost a boxing fight over 10 years ago that he isn't an elite athlete now.

Skills for skills he is absolutely at the level of a Roy Jones or a Floyd Mayweather, as is Georges St Pieree, Cung Lee and Lyoto Machida.

Sure none of them can throw 7 hooks in a second but all four of them would kill Roy Jones in a real fight.

I don't know about that as best switch over. What about a 48 year old, fat, Ray Mercer, who was "never" the top man at HW in boxing by quite a distance, knocking the fuck out of Sylvia in 7 seconds who was only 33 and was just 2 years earlier the UFC HW champ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fme4CDQC26w

I think some boxing fans are not being real when it comes to MMA. I don't know Marcus Davis but an easy look up shows he did better in boxing than MMA. He even described himself as one dimensional and has trouble when he is taken to the ground. Marcus Davis hasn't done anything in MMA. I am from Indianapolis and I do know of Chris Lytle. He was not a boxer. He is a wrestler who later took on boxing and a lot of martial arts also. So Lytle's accomplishments in MMA is not a boxer having success. Lytle was a very good wrestler before he was anything else. Lytle is well rounded and has actual ground skills. He is not a one dimensional boxer who is having his way in MMA. Lytle is a well rounded athlete who is having success in MMA.

What? Davis did more in boxing? To reach the UFC you have to be one of the top stars in MMA, he never even got out of 6 rounders in boxing!! Davis beat Lytle too at UFC 93.

[Kev]

I think some boxing fans are not being real when it comes to MMA. I don't know Marcus Davis but an easy look up shows he did better in boxing than MMA. He even described himself as one dimensional and has trouble when he is taken to the ground. Marcus Davis hasn't done anything in MMA. I am from Indianapolis and I do know of Chris Lytle. He was not a boxer. He is a wrestler who later took on boxing and a lot of martial arts also. So Lytle's accomplishments in MMA is not a boxer having success. Lytle was a very good wrestler before he was anything else. Lytle is well rounded and has actual ground skills. He is not a one dimensional boxer who is having his way in MMA. Lytle is a well rounded athlete who is having success in MMA.

It's also worth noting that by far the most succesful crossover was from MMA to boxing with Matt Skelton, leaving K-1 in his early 30's and taking up boxing at 34 and getting all the way to a world title shot against Ruslan Chagaev.

Then you have guys like the Irish cabbie Marty Rogan becoming Commonwealth champ having only started boxing in his mid 30's.

It's ridiculous to suggest that because Anderson Silva lost a boxing fight over 10 years ago that he isn't an elite athlete now.

Skills for skills he is absolutely at the level of a Roy Jones or a Floyd Mayweather, as is Georges St Pieree, Cung Lee and Lyoto Machida.

Sure none of them can throw 7 hooks in a second but all four of them would kill Roy Jones in a real fight.

I don't know about that as best switch over. What about a 48 year old, fat, Ray Mercer, who was "never" the top man at HW in boxing by quite a distance, knocking the fuck out of Sylvia in 7 seconds who was only 33 and was just 2 years earlier the UFC HW champ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fme4CDQC26w

Yeah the Slyvia ko was embarrassing for him most definitely, but he had already been dominated by Randy Couture who almost blew him away in the first round and then got destroyed by Fedor, he was hardly the main man at heavyweight.

The UFC is just one organisation within MMA it's not that the only MMA heavyweights fight in the UFC so Slyvia was never top dog in the MMA world either, no more so than Mercer ever was.

His loss to Mercer was an embarassment to himself but these things can happen with 4 oz gloves in a no holds barred contest.

Mercer himself was completely embarrassed by Kimbo Slice, who in turn was embarrassed by Seth Petronelli and Roy Munson, that's part of the nature of MMA, anything can happen.

If you are trying to claim that Mercer would go further in the UFC than Skelton did in world heavyweight boxing however you are completely delusional, Mercer I believe is about 1-4 in the MMA or something like that.

[rjj tszyu]

It's also worth noting that by far the most succesful crossover was from MMA to boxing with Matt Skelton, leaving K-1 in his early 30's and taking up boxing at 34 and getting all the way to a world title shot against Ruslan Chagaev.

Then you have guys like the Irish cabbie Marty Rogan becoming Commonwealth champ having only started boxing in his mid 30's.

It's ridiculous to suggest that because Anderson Silva lost a boxing fight over 10 years ago that he isn't an elite athlete now.

Skills for skills he is absolutely at the level of a Roy Jones or a Floyd Mayweather, as is Georges St Pieree, Cung Lee and Lyoto Machida.

Sure none of them can throw 7 hooks in a second but all four of them would kill Roy Jones in a real fight.

I don't know about that as best switch over. What about a 48 year old, fat, Ray Mercer, who was "never" the top man at HW in boxing by quite a distance, knocking the fuck out of Sylvia in 7 seconds who was only 33 and was just 2 years earlier the UFC HW champ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fme4CDQC26w

Yeah the Slyvia ko was embarrassing for him most definitely, but he had already been dominated by Randy Couture who almost blew him away in the first round and then got destroyed by Fedor, he was hardly the main man at heavyweight.

The UFC is just one organisation within MMA it's not that the only MMA heavyweights fight in the UFC so Slyvia was never top dog in the MMA world either, no more so than Mercer ever was.

His loss to Mercer was an embarassment to himself but these things can happen with 4 oz gloves in a no holds barred contest.

Mercer himself was completely embarrassed by Kimbo Slice, who in turn was embarrassed by Seth Petronelli and Roy Munson, that's part of the nature of MMA, anything can happen.

If you are trying to claim that Mercer would go further in the UFC than Skelton did in world heavyweight boxing however you are completely delusional, Mercer I believe is about 1-4 in the MMA or something like that.

As far as I know he has only had 2 MMA fights, Kimbo and Sylvia and I thought he was paid to throw the fight with Kimbo!! Might be wrong but they were the rumours flying around at the time.

And what has Skelton done in boxing? Fought at british level been whupped off a taxi driver and got a undesrved shot at the WBA belt?? wow!

Mercer is also 48 and should not be in any kind of fighing game let alone knocking out 33 year old ex champions at their own game.

Also is UFC not the most elite org in MMA? I agree maybe they don't have ALL the best fighters (Fedor) but they do have most of them, do you not agree? Also did Sylvia not beat Arlovski twice? I thought Arlovski was supposed to be the dogs bollocks at one point.

[Kev]

I don't know about that as best switch over. What about a 48 year old, fat, Ray Mercer, who was "never" the top man at HW in boxing by quite a distance, knocking the fuck out of Sylvia in 7 seconds who was only 33 and was just 2 years earlier the UFC HW champ??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fme4CDQC26w

Yeah the Slyvia ko was embarrassing for him most definitely, but he had already been dominated by Randy Couture who almost blew him away in the first round and then got destroyed by Fedor, he was hardly the main man at heavyweight.

The UFC is just one organisation within MMA it's not that the only MMA heavyweights fight in the UFC so Slyvia was never top dog in the MMA world either, no more so than Mercer ever was.

His loss to Mercer was an embarassment to himself but these things can happen with 4 oz gloves in a no holds barred contest.

Mercer himself was completely embarrassed by Kimbo Slice, who in turn was embarrassed by Seth Petronelli and Roy Munson, that's part of the nature of MMA, anything can happen.

If you are trying to claim that Mercer would go further in the UFC than Skelton did in world heavyweight boxing however you are completely delusional, Mercer I believe is about 1-4 in the MMA or something like that.

As far as I know he has only had 2 MMA fights, Kimbo and Sylvia and I thought he was paid to throw the fight with Kimbo!! Might be wrong but they were the rumours flying around at the time.

And what has Skelton done in boxing? Fought at british level been whupped off a taxi driver and got a undesrved shot at the WBA belt?? wow!

Mercer is also 48 and should not be in any kind of fighing game let alone knocking out 33 year old ex champions at their own game.

Also is UFC not the most elite org in MMA? I agree maybe they don't have ALL the best fighters (Fedor) but they do have most of them, do you not agree? Also did Sylvia not beat Arlovski twice? I thought Arlovski was supposed to be the dogs bollocks at one point.

Mercer has been ko'd a couple times in K1 as well, both in the first round I believe.

Skelton was the British number 1, has been British, Commonwealth and European Champion and fought for a legit world title belt, not bad for a guy who started in his 30's.

Incidently he also forayed into MMA and fought in Pride. He lost his only fight in the first round.

I'm not arguing that boxing doesn't have a greater strength in depth than MMA, it does, there has been well over 100 years put into this sport.

But the best MMA practitioners are simply masters of their craft. I'm sure the world's best of each sport don't fight in MMA, i.e the best Ju Jitsu guys compete soley in Ju Jitsu, the best wrestlers in wrestling etc.

But taken as a whole, the entire skill set these guys have (at the top) is formidable and in an absolute sense you would have to consider guys like Silva and Fedor as the best fighters in the world, as their total skill sets are vast.

[rjj tszyu]

Yeah the Slyvia ko was embarrassing for him most definitely, but he had already been dominated by Randy Couture who almost blew him away in the first round and then got destroyed by Fedor, he was hardly the main man at heavyweight.

The UFC is just one organisation within MMA it's not that the only MMA heavyweights fight in the UFC so Slyvia was never top dog in the MMA world either, no more so than Mercer ever was.

His loss to Mercer was an embarassment to himself but these things can happen with 4 oz gloves in a no holds barred contest.

Mercer himself was completely embarrassed by Kimbo Slice, who in turn was embarrassed by Seth Petronelli and Roy Munson, that's part of the nature of MMA, anything can happen.

If you are trying to claim that Mercer would go further in the UFC than Skelton did in world heavyweight boxing however you are completely delusional, Mercer I believe is about 1-4 in the MMA or something like that.

As far as I know he has only had 2 MMA fights, Kimbo and Sylvia and I thought he was paid to throw the fight with Kimbo!! Might be wrong but they were the rumours flying around at the time.

And what has Skelton done in boxing? Fought at british level been whupped off a taxi driver and got a undesrved shot at the WBA belt?? wow!

Mercer is also 48 and should not be in any kind of fighing game let alone knocking out 33 year old ex champions at their own game.

Also is UFC not the most elite org in MMA? I agree maybe they don't have ALL the best fighters (Fedor) but they do have most of them, do you not agree? Also did Sylvia not beat Arlovski twice? I thought Arlovski was supposed to be the dogs bollocks at one point.

Mercer has been ko'd a couple times in K1 as well, both in the first round I believe.

Skelton was the British number 1, has been British, Commonwealth and European Champion and fought for a legit world title belt, not bad for a guy who started in his 30's.

Incidently he also forayed into MMA and fought in Pride. He lost his only fight in the first round.

I'm not arguing that boxing doesn't have a greater strength in depth than MMA, it does, there has been well over 100 years put into this sport.

But the best MMA practitioners are simply masters of their craft. I'm sure the world's best of each sport don't fight in MMA, i.e the best Ju Jitsu guys compete soley in Ju Jitsu, the best wrestlers in wrestling etc.

But taken as a whole, the entire skill set these guys have (at the top) is formidable and in an absolute sense you would have to consider guys like Silva and Fedor as the best fighters in the world, as their total skill sets are vast.

OK i see where your coming from. But boxer's when they reach the very top tend to be freak athletes. They can do strange things that the body shouldn't be able to do, like throw 25 punches (hooks not pitter patter punches) in 5 seconds. To me due to the relatively low pay in MMA they do not yet have these type of athletes. Not to say that they won't as the sport grows though.

[Kev]

As far as I know he has only had 2 MMA fights, Kimbo and Sylvia and I thought he was paid to throw the fight with Kimbo!! Might be wrong but they were the rumours flying around at the time.

And what has Skelton done in boxing? Fought at british level been whupped off a taxi driver and got a undesrved shot at the WBA belt?? wow!

Mercer is also 48 and should not be in any kind of fighing game let alone knocking out 33 year old ex champions at their own game.

Also is UFC not the most elite org in MMA? I agree maybe they don't have ALL the best fighters (Fedor) but they do have most of them, do you not agree? Also did Sylvia not beat Arlovski twice? I thought Arlovski was supposed to be the dogs bollocks at one point.

Mercer has been ko'd a couple times in K1 as well, both in the first round I believe.

Skelton was the British number 1, has been British, Commonwealth and European Champion and fought for a legit world title belt, not bad for a guy who started in his 30's.

Incidently he also forayed into MMA and fought in Pride. He lost his only fight in the first round.

I'm not arguing that boxing doesn't have a greater strength in depth than MMA, it does, there has been well over 100 years put into this sport.

But the best MMA practitioners are simply masters of their craft. I'm sure the world's best of each sport don't fight in MMA, i.e the best Ju Jitsu guys compete soley in Ju Jitsu, the best wrestlers in wrestling etc.

But taken as a whole, the entire skill set these guys have (at the top) is formidable and in an absolute sense you would have to consider guys like Silva and Fedor as the best fighters in the world, as their total skill sets are vast.

OK i see where your coming from. But boxer's when they reach the very top tend to be freak athletes. They can do strange things that the body shouldn't be able to do, like throw 25 punches (hooks not pitter patter punches) in 5 seconds. To me due to the relatively low pay in MMA they do not yet have these type of athletes. Not to say that they won't as the sport grows though.

I don't think many of the top boxers can do that to be fair. And regardless I don't see how that is more impressive than the skills of Silva, Cung Lee and Machida?

At the elite of every sport people can do things you shouldn't be able to do. If you're going to judge the talent pool of a sport soley by the athleticism of its top practictioner then surely gynamsts, divers and figure skaters would far and away represent the highest attainable standards for human greatness.

I just find the idea that boxers are better athletes because the elite boxers excell at the art of punching (i.e boxing) is just silly. I mean Lewis Hamilton can do things a human shouldn't be able to do in a race car, and Ronnie O'Sullivan can do things with a snooker cue that are practically an artform but you'd expect them to because they are the absolute cream of their respective sports.

A boxer being better at boxing than an MMA fighter doesn't in any way mean that MMA practictioners are less talented.

[rjj tszyu]

Mercer has been ko'd a couple times in K1 as well, both in the first round I believe.

Skelton was the British number 1, has been British, Commonwealth and European Champion and fought for a legit world title belt, not bad for a guy who started in his 30's.

Incidently he also forayed into MMA and fought in Pride. He lost his only fight in the first round.

I'm not arguing that boxing doesn't have a greater strength in depth than MMA, it does, there has been well over 100 years put into this sport.

But the best MMA practitioners are simply masters of their craft. I'm sure the world's best of each sport don't fight in MMA, i.e the best Ju Jitsu guys compete soley in Ju Jitsu, the best wrestlers in wrestling etc.

But taken as a whole, the entire skill set these guys have (at the top) is formidable and in an absolute sense you would have to consider guys like Silva and Fedor as the best fighters in the world, as their total skill sets are vast.

OK i see where your coming from. But boxer's when they reach the very top tend to be freak athletes. They can do strange things that the body shouldn't be able to do, like throw 25 punches (hooks not pitter patter punches) in 5 seconds. To me due to the relatively low pay in MMA they do not yet have these type of athletes. Not to say that they won't as the sport grows though.

I don't think many of the top boxers can do that to be fair. And regardless I don't see how that is more impressive than the skills of Silva, Cung Lee and Machida?

At the elite of every sport people can do things you shouldn't be able to do. If you're going to judge the talent pool of a sport soley by the athleticism of its top practictioner then surely gynamsts, divers and figure skaters would far and away represent the highest attainable standards for human greatness.

I just find the idea that boxers are better athletes because the elite boxers excell at the art of punching (i.e boxing) is just silly. I mean Lewis Hamilton can do things a human shouldn't be able to do in a race car, and Ronnie O'Sullivan can do things with a snooker cue that are practically an artform but you'd expect them to because they are the absolute cream of their respective sports.

A boxer being better at boxing than an MMA fighter doesn't in any way mean that MMA practictioners are less talented.

Boxing has had literally hundreds of years to progress though, MMA hasn't and is as a result not as polished as boxing IMO.

[Kev]

OK i see where your coming from. But boxer's when they reach the very top tend to be freak athletes. They can do strange things that the body shouldn't be able to do, like throw 25 punches (hooks not pitter patter punches) in 5 seconds. To me due to the relatively low pay in MMA they do not yet have these type of athletes. Not to say that they won't as the sport grows though.

I don't think many of the top boxers can do that to be fair. And regardless I don't see how that is more impressive than the skills of Silva, Cung Lee and Machida?

At the elite of every sport people can do things you shouldn't be able to do. If you're going to judge the talent pool of a sport soley by the athleticism of its top practictioner then surely gynamsts, divers and figure skaters would far and away represent the highest attainable standards for human greatness.

I just find the idea that boxers are better athletes because the elite boxers excell at the art of punching (i.e boxing) is just silly. I mean Lewis Hamilton can do things a human shouldn't be able to do in a race car, and Ronnie O'Sullivan can do things with a snooker cue that are practically an artform but you'd expect them to because they are the absolute cream of their respective sports.

A boxer being better at boxing than an MMA fighter doesn't in any way mean that MMA practictioners are less talented.

Boxing has had literally hundreds of years to progress though, MMA hasn't and is as a result not as polished as boxing IMO.

Yes I definitely agree with you there. MMA is probably at the stage boxing was in the Joe Luis era. It will progress more quickly, thanks to the developments in fitness training, nutrition and phsyiological understanding in the modern era, and the fact that there is already a growing fanbase and big potential revenues, but right now there isn't as much strength in depth.

The top guys are formidable athletes though.

I forsee a time in the future where a top UFC fighter will have roughly equal status within the public consciousness as the top boxers.

Maybe another 5 years if it keeps progressing at the current rate.