Why Manny can't beat Floyd

[Taeth]

First of all I am as big of a Pacquiao supporter as anyone on here, people said I was a nuthugger, but now that Pacquiao has emphatically proven himself an ATG, at least top 15 ever. After watching both Mayweather-marquez and Pacquiao-Cotto live, I know that Manny won't beat Floyd.

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

3rd: Speed. Now they are both the same speed, but Manny relies on being faster way more than Mayweather, thats why the faster the opponent's hands and/or feet are the harder of a time Manny has with them.

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches, I think Marquez demonstrated this far more accutely in their two fights. I think Judah gave Cotto less problems than Manny because Cotto can be hit, but you need to throw punches to hit somebody, and Judah doesn't throw enough punches. I think Judah in terms of landing solidly would give Mayweather more problems than Pacquiao because against Mayweather its about landing that tight left cross as a counter puncher that does the trick, and Manny doesn't have that punch. Manny whole style and stance doesn't allow for him to catch somebody coming in with the left cross effectively. He either flurries back or counters with the right hook which Floyd would easily dodge.

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

[miron_lang]

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Taeth


No disrespect mate but the thread title sounds stupid really. I mean cmon ....

[Taeth]

Just like when I said Manny would beat Cotto or Mosley, and that it wasn't because Oscar was old or Hatton was tailor made that Manny beat them also because he was a great fighter?

Manny is a great fighter, but Floyd is better, and I will be saying this now and until I go to the fight. Floyd can't lose this fight unless he has an injury. Pacquiao is way too tailor made for him. Manny gets caught out of position, the way he throws punches offensively will be relatively easy for Mayweather to block, and Manny isn't super great at throwing punches of his back foot.

I just don't get why people don't see how this fight likely won't even be that competitive. Floyd has all the right tools to handle Pacquiao.

[miron_lang]

Just like when I said Manny would beat Cotto or Mosley, and that it wasn't because Oscar was old or Hatton was tailor made that Manny beat them also because he was a great fighter?

Manny is a great fighter, but Floyd is better, and I will be saying this now and until I go to the fight. Floyd can't lose this fight unless he has an injury. Pacquiao is way too tailor made for him. Manny gets caught out of position, the way he throws punches offensively will be relatively easy for Mayweather to block, and Manny isn't super great at throwing punches of his back foot.

Pacquiao comes up new everytime up.

Roach lays down the plan
Pac doesnt worry about the promotion or the plan. he executes it.


Whatever technical flaws or shortcoming that pac may have againts Floyd ( You must be a 12 yr old moron if you think this fight is competitive just 5 yrs ago ) Roach will have something to fix it uo en route to a great fight plan.


Dont write Pacquiao off. Its a fair warning

[Taeth]

Wow you guys haven't watched Floyd at all, he always backs up southpaws with both hands up high. I thought Manny should have used a lot more movement against Cotto, but he wanted to prove a point, but regardless Pacquiao can be backed up relatively easily because he moves in and out, he isn't a guy who just comes forward, but if you can get him consistently moving back thats where he isn't as good. The fight against Hatton doesn't count because obviously a heavy hitter with speed would pick Hatton apart because he's so open when he comes in.

The problem is when you watch the Marquez fight Manny wasn't the offensively killer he was in later fights, and thats because Marquez didn't let him. Marquez was able to control the ring and even was more success leading in with the cross than Pacquiao was. Now put Mayweather in Marquez's shoes, a guy who blatantly showed he's bigger, faster, and stronger and better than Marquez, and Manny won't be able to get started.

The best way to beat a Ferrari in a race is to never let the key go into the ignition, and Mayweather wouldn't let Manny find his rhythm. Floyd will come forwad behind a high guard, and he will land right hand after right hand, and Manny will occasionally flurry, but Mayweather will either stand there and block the majority of them or move back quickly and stay out of Manny's range, then he will go right back to walking Manny down.

If Mayweather does choose to move and box which he doesn't do against southpaws, Manny is wide open when he moves in, and Mayweather will land counter right hands all night long, and Manny won't be able to even fight his range, but thats not how Mayweather will fight Manny.

[miron_lang]

Wow you guys haven't watched Floyd at all, he always backs up southpaws with both hands up high. I thought Manny should have used a lot more movement against Cotto, but he wanted to prove a point, but regardless Pacquiao can be backed up relatively easily because he moves in and out, he isn't a guy who just comes forward, but if you can get him consistently moving back thats where he isn't as good. The fight against Hatton doesn't count because obviously a heavy hitter with speed would pick Hatton apart because he's so open when he comes in.

The problem is when you watch the Marquez fight Manny wasn't the offensively killer he was in later fights, and thats because Marquez didn't let him. Marquez was able to control the ring and even was more success leading in with the cross than Pacquiao was. Now put Mayweather in Marquez's shoes, a guy who blatantly showed he's bigger, faster, and stronger and better than Marquez, and Manny won't be able to get started.

The best way to beat a Ferrari in a race is to never let the key go into the ignition, and Mayweather wouldn't let Manny find his rhythm. Floyd will come forwad behind a high guard, and he will land right hand after right hand, and Manny will occasionally flurry, but Mayweather will either stand there and block the majority of them or move back quickly and stay out of Manny's range, then he will go right back to walking Manny down.

If Mayweather does choose to move and box which he doesn't do against southpaws, Manny is wide open when he moves in, and Mayweather will land counter right hands all night long, and Manny won't be able to even fight his range, but thats not how Mayweather will fight Manny.

You realize Backing Pacquiao up literally means Floyd will be there in front on him right?

That would be a good strategy againts the version that fought Morales the 1st time (1st fight above 126). But againts this 30 yr old version? Fuck no way. PAC will overwhelm him. Stamina is Pac's under rated friend and will serve him well. Pac has the power of a welterweight, Floyd will have a taste consistently en route to a UD loss or a TKO loss. MO of the fight at least.

I really hope Floyd execute that plan.

[brucelee]

Wow you guys haven't watched Floyd at all, he always backs up southpaws with both hands up high. I thought Manny should have used a lot more movement against Cotto, but he wanted to prove a point, but regardless Pacquiao can be backed up relatively easily because he moves in and out, he isn't a guy who just comes forward, but if you can get him consistently moving back thats where he isn't as good. The fight against Hatton doesn't count because obviously a heavy hitter with speed would pick Hatton apart because he's so open when he comes in.

The problem is when you watch the Marquez fight Manny wasn't the offensively killer he was in later fights, and thats because Marquez didn't let him. Marquez was able to control the ring and even was more success leading in with the cross than Pacquiao was. Now put Mayweather in Marquez's shoes, a guy who blatantly showed he's bigger, faster, and stronger and better than Marquez, and Manny won't be able to get started.

The best way to beat a Ferrari in a race is to never let the key go into the ignition, and Mayweather wouldn't let Manny find his rhythm. Floyd will come forwad behind a high guard, and he will land right hand after right hand, and Manny will occasionally flurry, but Mayweather will either stand there and block the majority of them or move back quickly and stay out of Manny's range, then he will go right back to walking Manny down.

If Mayweather does choose to move and box which he doesn't do against southpaws, Manny is wide open when he moves in, and Mayweather will land counter right hands all night long, and Manny won't be able to even fight his range, but thats not how Mayweather will fight Manny.

Floyd had problem with Zab. I hope you consider watching again that fight.

[El Kabong]

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Taeth


No disrespect mate but the thread title sounds stupid really. I mean cmon ....

....all due respect miron_lang, but Taeth did give very sound reasoning and examples behind his opinion.

maybe it's best titled "Why Manny SHOULDN'T beat Floyd" or "Why Manny WON'T beat Floyd" but I digress.

Manny Pacquiao has proven himself to be a very dangerous fighter, but at times he hasn't been this great. People point alot to the Marquez fight, but hell how about the first fight with Morales

Floyd is going to be difficult for Manny to beat because Manny is the puncher and Floyd is the defensive expert BUT Floyd can also hurt guys with his counterpunching and I doubt Manny's defense is up to the task of outdueling PBF, it's not Manny's style

[miron_lang]

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Taeth


No disrespect mate but the thread title sounds stupid really. I mean cmon ....

....all due respect miron_lang, but Taeth did give very sound reasoning and examples behind his opinion.

maybe it's best titled "Why Manny SHOULDN'T beat Floyd" or "Why Manny WON'T beat Floyd" but I digress.

Manny Pacquiao has proven himself to be a very dangerous fighter, but at times he hasn't been this great. People point alot to the Marquez fight, but hell how about the first fight with Morales

Floyd is going to be difficult for Manny to beat because Manny is the puncher and Floyd is the defensive expert BUT Floyd can also hurt guys with his counterpunching and I doubt Manny's defense is up to the task of outdueling PBF, it's not Manny's style

Bolded ==> Exactly my point.

1. They say a fighter is as good as his last fight so...
2. Morales 1? Pac was @126 before that fight. I hope you will agree that Pac improved since then

[michigan20]

I personally dont really like either fighter but I believe that this is a dream match up in favor of mayweather for a few reasons. He's bigger in terms of reach and weight. Reality is that manny will probably weigh about 145 for the fight while mayweather will be closer to 153 on the actual day of the fight.

My second reasoning came from breaking down there styles and opponents. Now i dont believe that ABC logic works in sports. i mean muhammad ali lost to joe frazier and ken norton while george foreman knocked both of them out. but the closest thing to a mayweather that pacman has fought is jmm. manny's bread and butter is that one two and he tends to lunge a bit with the left and once marquez got the timing down he effectively controlled it and counter him numerous times and was able to hurt him while they were at the same weight. so im gonna imagine that a better counter puncher, whose bigger, and faster should have at least equal success or greater.

Thirdly, manny is a southpaw. Common boxing knowledge dictates that your most effective punch is the straight right against them. This again benefits mayweather because not only the reach factor but because he throws less jabs that your average boxer and is more straights than the average fighter.
Also much of manny success has come against opponents where his speed advantage was clear and away particularly against hispanic fighters ( not tryin to say there slower than any other fighters) who generally fight with no head movement and move straight at there opponents. this has allowed manny to move in and out with his superior speed and bounce around and attack from different angles with his one two. He wont have those advantages against mayweather and if the much slower marquez could slow him down and clearly frustrate manny in both fights i have to believe that mayweather who is as fast, much greater defensive ability and even better countering skills is just gonna pick him off with straights taking advantage of his reach and not letting manny line up to blitz with his left. Mayweather wont do much damage but he'll frustrate manny and dominate on the punchbox % and the score cards

[miron_lang]

I personally dont really like either fighter but I believe that this is a dream match up in favor of mayweather for a few reasons. He's bigger in terms of reach and weight. Reality is that manny will probably weigh about 145 for the fight while mayweather will be closer to 153 on the actual day of the fight.

My second reasoning came from breaking down there styles and opponents. Now i dont believe that ABC logic works in sports. i mean muhammad ali lost to joe frazier and ken norton while george foreman knocked both of them out. but the closest thing to a mayweather that pacman has fought is jmm. manny's bread and butter is that one two and he tends to lunge a bit with the left and once marquez got the timing down he effectively controlled it and counter him numerous times and was able to hurt him while they were at the same weight. so im gonna imagine that a better counter puncher, whose bigger, and faster should have at least equal success or greater.

Thirdly, manny is a southpaw. Common boxing knowledge dictates that your most effective punch is the straight right against them. This again benefits mayweather because not only the reach factor but because he throws less jabs that your average boxer and is more straights than the average fighter.
Also much of manny success has come against opponents where his speed advantage was clear and away particularly against hispanic fighters ( not tryin to say there slower than any other fighters) who generally fight with no head movement and move straight at there opponents. this has allowed manny to move in and out with his superior speed and bounce around and attack from different angles with his one two. He wont have those advantages against mayweather and if the much slower marquez could slow him down and clearly frustrate manny in both fights i have to believe that mayweather who is as fast, much greater defensive ability and even better countering skills is just gonna pick him off with straights taking advantage of his reach and not letting manny line up to blitz with his left. Mayweather wont do much damage but he'll frustrate manny and dominate on the punchbox % and the score cards

Did you watch Pac-Cotto? or maybe even DLH and DIaz fights?

[miron_lang]

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

One shot. And the complexion of the game can turn in pac's favor. Work rate mate. Floyd can run. but can he run for 12 rounds?

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

Are you sure about this? Floyd coming forward? againts Pacquiao? You must be thinking of someone else

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches

He had success because because Manny stood there and tested the left hooks and uppecuts. For Psy purposes if i may state

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

uLOL that wont happen hahahha

Back him up at your own risk - Larry Merchant

[Taeth]

1st. Manny showed something I didn't think he had, the ability to absorbs Cotto's power and stand there and trade, but that doesn't help him whatsoever against Mayweather. Mayweather doesn't need to hurt you to dominate you.

One shot. And the complexion of the game can turn in pac's favor. Work rate mate. Floyd can run. but can he run for 12 rounds?

2nd: Mayweather comes forward against southpaws, and Manny needs space to get off his punches, but also he isn't nearly as effective going backwards. Mayweather will keep Manny on his heels and constantly land that right cross which Manny is wide open for all night long.

Are you sure about this? Floyd coming forward? againts Pacquiao? You must be thinking of someone else

4th: Holes. I think Cotto did a good job early of showing that if you are brave enough Manny can be counter effectively because he leaves himself so wide open after he throws punches

He had success because because Manny stood there and tested the left hooks and uppecuts. For Psy purposes if i may state

Conclusion: Mayweather will carefully back Pacquiao up, take a couple of rounds to get used to his speed and what he does(just like against Judah), then Floyd will pick Manny's porous defense apart. If guys like Marquez and Cotto can left cleanly on Manny then Mayweather will do it much easier than either of them, and nobody lands punches in bunches consistently against Floyd who also has a great chin if some punches get through.

uLOL that wont happen hahahha

Back him up at your own risk - Larry Merchant

1. Mayweather has a way better chin than Hatton or Cotto and he's 10x harder to hit cleanly.

2. Watch Mayweather any other southpaw.

3. Pacquiao didn't stand there against Marquez, who hit him continually with ease. That same Marquez is slower, smaller, and less accurate than Mayweather as was painfully evident in their fight.

4. Larry Merchant is a fucking idiot. When Cotto was coming forward and staying cautious he was beating Manny, when he opened up tried to trade, he was getting beaten up by Manny.

[miron_lang]

1. Mayweather has a way better chin than Hatton or Cotto and he's 10x harder to hit cleanly.

2. Watch Mayweather any other southpaw.

3. Pacquiao didn't stand there against Marquez, who hit him continually with ease. That same Marquez is slower, smaller, and less accurate than Mayweather as was painfully evident in their fight.

4. Larry Merchant is a fucking idiot. When Cotto was coming forward and staying cautious he was beating Manny, when he opened up tried to trade, he was getting beaten up by Manny.

1. Are you sure on How floyd will react after Manny hit him? My guest same as the others. Whats your guess?

2. Ive watched it. Did he back JUdah up the entire fight? Did Zab had early success?

3. Pacquiao didnt stand there he seek him. JMM waited and had some moments.

Just stating facts : JMM-PAC 2 @130 Floyd-JMM @144 Floyd came at 146. Comparing these 2 fights is definately irrelevant.

4. No he's not. He's getting paid doing what we're doing for free (Discussing boxing). I repeat Manny let cotto hit him to test his power and psy him up.

[hardcore_crash]

4. No he's not. He's getting paid doing what we're doing for free (Discussing boxing). I repeat Manny let cotto hit him to test his power and psy him up.

Lol, you guys are acting like if Manny only got hit when he wanted to.