RJJ V Mike Tyson

[Themantonio]

I was watching Tarver v Jones Jr 1 the other night and remembered his post fight interview where he said he would never fight in LHW again, wanted to go back up to HW and fight Tyson then retire.

Just wanting to know why this fight never took place and had it, who would've won at the time?

[Eloking]

who would've won at the time?

It depend when RJJ would have fought Tyson. If it was before he goes to jail, then Tyson would have easily won (in my opinion). But since Tarver VS RJJ was in 2003-2004, I'm pretty sure Tyson would have lost. At that time he was nothing compared to his prime.

[salty trunks]

Even at Tysons worst he still had a lot of speed and power for a heavyweight. I dont think Jones could have put enough on Tyson to keep him off of him, and thats what it took to stop Tyson. Tyson would land and Jones would get knocked out.

[Master]

As bad as Tyson was then, he would just need to land once and it would happen in 36 minutes of a fight. Tyson was only beaten by big heavies who used their weight on him to tire him out. Roy would not do that.

[salty trunks]

As bad as Tyson was then, he would just need to land once and it would happen in 36 minutes of a fight. Tyson was only beaten by big heavies who used their weight on him to tire him out. Roy would not do that.

Agreed even Holyfield used the tactic of leaning and pushing Tyson back to wear him out. Tyson would be too dangerous at range with his speed and power and Jones couldnt do enough from the outside to keep Tyson off of him.

[J_Undisputed]

Even at Tysons worst he still had a lot of speed and power for a heavyweight. I dont think Jones could have put enough on Tyson to keep him off of him, and thats what it took to stop Tyson. Tyson would land and Jones would get knocked out.

At the time they would have fought, Tysons skill werent even close to what they were. He no longer moved his head, he only moved his hands; he telegraphed his punches; Didn't punch in combinations anymore and he gave up if he couldnt knock his opponent out in 3 rounds. He had no trainer he would listen to.
If he couldnt hit Botha for 6 rounds, Jone's movement would have gave him fits. Tyson like bigger slower opponents because they were easier to hit and rested on the ropes. Even if Jone's jab that was rediscovered at heavyweight wasnt enough to keep Tyson off balance, he could have potshotted tyson and held for 3 rounds and waited for tyson to lose interest, and then pick him apart. At the time they would have fought, Tyson wouldnt have gotten embarrassed barring a heavy shot landing or one of the patented armbars doing damage to Jones in the first few rounds of which Jones would have been too smart to engage in a firefight.

[salty trunks]

Even at Tysons worst he still had a lot of speed and power for a heavyweight. I dont think Jones could have put enough on Tyson to keep him off of him, and thats what it took to stop Tyson. Tyson would land and Jones would get knocked out.

At the time they would have fought, Tysons skill werent even close to what they were. He no longer moved his head, he only moved his hands; he telegraphed his punches; Didn't punch in combinations anymore and he gave up if he couldnt knock his opponent out in 3 rounds. He had no trainer he would listen to.
If he couldnt hit Botha for 6 rounds, Jone's movement would have gave him fits. Tyson like bigger slower opponents because they were easier to hit and rested on the ropes. Even if Jone's jab that was rediscovered at heavyweight wasnt enough to keep Tyson off balance, he could have potshotted tyson and held for 3 rounds and waited for tyson to lose interest, and then pick him apart. At the time they would have fought, Tyson wouldnt have gotten embarrassed barring a heavy shot landing or one of the patented armbars doing damage to Jones in the first few rounds of which Jones would have been too smart to engage in a firefight.

I see what your saying but remember, (and I actually see the fight ending just like the Botha fight), Tyson was coming off a year and half layoff when he fought Botha from the suspension and road rage jail term. He was also just hooking up with a real trainer in Tommy Brooks who had him looking pretty good after working with him for a few fights.
I think the Tyson that fought Golota would have been quick enough and explosive enough to eventually catch Jones even if he did have some success running and boxing for a few rounds.

[J_Undisputed]

Even at Tysons worst he still had a lot of speed and power for a heavyweight. I dont think Jones could have put enough on Tyson to keep him off of him, and thats what it took to stop Tyson. Tyson would land and Jones would get knocked out.

At the time they would have fought, Tysons skill werent even close to what they were. He no longer moved his head, he only moved his hands; he telegraphed his punches; Didn't punch in combinations anymore and he gave up if he couldnt knock his opponent out in 3 rounds. He had no trainer he would listen to.
If he couldnt hit Botha for 6 rounds, Jone's movement would have gave him fits. Tyson like bigger slower opponents because they were easier to hit and rested on the ropes. Even if Jone's jab that was rediscovered at heavyweight wasnt enough to keep Tyson off balance, he could have potshotted tyson and held for 3 rounds and waited for tyson to lose interest, and then pick him apart. At the time they would have fought, Tyson wouldnt have gotten embarrassed barring a heavy shot landing or one of the patented armbars doing damage to Jones in the first few rounds of which Jones would have been too smart to engage in a firefight.

I see what your saying but remember, (and I actually see the fight ending just like the Botha fight), Tyson was coming off a year and half layoff when he fought Botha from the suspension and road rage jail term. He was also just hooking up with a real trainer in Tommy Brooks who had him looking pretty good after working with him for a few fights.
I think the Tyson that fought Golota would have been quick enough and explosive enough to eventually catch Jones even if he did have some success running and boxing for a few rounds.

Theoretically, it is quite possible. The reason I give the edge to Jones is that he seemed extra sharp in those fights where he was in the most danger. He seemed to be driven by the challenge and the thought of losing it all. The Toney Fight;The Griffin rematch saw Jones posessed; The fight with Telesco at Radio City Music Hall with only one good had was masterful; the fight with a Ruiz with a guy that outweighed him by about 20+ lbs saw him sharp also (despite being rocked a little by Ruiz) and fighting through it. Jones fighting Tyson and the dangers that came with it for a fighter come up from LH and fighting a guy with Tysons Power, would have had Jones on another level.

Anyone can get caught. I have trouble see Brooks getting Tyson in enough focus and with enough skills to time, catch or unload on Jones before Tysons carriage turned back into a pumpkin at the start of round 4. Its unfortunate for Tyson that Evander's punch then clinch method laid the blueprint on how to beat him. Even Botha used it to frustrate Tyson before he stepped into the punch that dropped him and showed shockwaves travel down his back in a ripple of fat if you watch the slow-mo. I can't see Jones jousting powershots with Tyson like that. He'd know better and that was still before Jones became a headcase and stopped using his evasiveness to get the hell out dodge and started covering up with hands high and sitting on the ropes.

[salty trunks]

Could be but wow it would be a tall order for Jones. He would basically not have to get hit the entire fight. Even Holyfield was hit very hard and stunned by Tyson in both fights. I think you may be underestimating Tysons speed and power which was a lot harder than anything Jones had faced previously.

I just dont see Jones being able to take any kind of good shot from Tyson and I dont see Jones possessing enough power to stop Tyson from coming forward. Botha was still a pretty big physical guy 6'2 235 who was able to tie up and move Tyson around a little bit on the inside which kind of made Tyson frustrated and sloppy.

[J_Undisputed]

Could be but wow it would be a tall order for Jones. He would basically not have to get hit the entire fight. Even Holyfield was hit very hard and stunned by Tyson in both fights. I think you may be underestimating Tysons speed and power which was a lot harder than anything Jones had faced previously.

I just dont see Jones being able to take any kind of good shot from Tyson and I dont see Jones possessing enough power to stop Tyson from coming forward. Botha was still a pretty big physical guy 6'2 235 who was able to tie up and move Tyson around a little bit on the inside which kind of made Tyson frustrated and sloppy.

Jones has gone entire pretty much entire fights without getting hit witha good shot by faster fighters with longer reach and even recorded a round where he never got hit by a Rooney trained Pazienza fightinga similar style. Yes jones had enough power at the weight to make Paz think twice.

But heavy this is all about styles. The fighters that we were mentioning here were forward fighters. Evander, Botha as well as most people that Tyson fought were not fighters with good movement that were known for avoiding punches. In the later stages, the only fighter that probably tried to use the ring and any movement, was Lennox and he used a telephone pole jab to keep Tyson at bay. Mostly because he had too because his lateral movement wasn't that good.

Jones never fought a puncher like Tyson. Tyson never fought a mover and slickster with the speed of Jones. When it comes down to it, I fancy Jones chance of not getting his cleanly and picking away at Tysons self esteem for 3 rounds than I do Tyson landing a big clean telegraphed shot on a guy whos hadn't really been hit cleanly and barely lost a round at those respective stages in their careers. Especially when Jones was on a high off beating Ruiz and Tyson was going through all the stuff he was going through and had already had his aura shattered by Holyfield.

[salty trunks]

Jones has gone entire pretty much entire fights without getting hit witha good shot by faster fighters with longer reach and even recorded a round where he never got hit by a Rooney trained Pazienza fightinga similar style. Yes jones had enough power at the weight to make Paz think twice.

Paz was a 5 foot 7 former lightweight that fought Jones at 168 thats a strange comparison to say the least. Paz was no where near the offensive threat of any version of Tyson.
Who was faster than Tyson that Jones faced?

[DaxxKahn]

Even a washed up Tyson had wiskers enough to deal with Jones power for a few rounds....And even a washed up Tyson could keep up a pace that would have Roy on the ropes for a few rounds and somewhere in there Roy would get caught..

Mike is no Tarver, Johnson or Green his shots would have done more damage and I give at least the TKO

[J_Undisputed]

Jones has gone entire pretty much entire fights without getting hit witha good shot by faster fighters with longer reach and even recorded a round where he never got hit by a Rooney trained Pazienza fightinga similar style. Yes jones had enough power at the weight to make Paz think twice.

Paz was a 5 foot 7 former lightweight that fought Jones at 168 thats a strange comparison to say the least. Paz was no where near the offensive threat of any version of Tyson.
Who was faster than Tyson that Jones faced?

Paz was not the offensive threat as far as power goes, but fought a comparable style to what Tyson fought in his better days with the speed of a lighter weight class and only 2 inches shorter than. Build and stylewise, Paz was a minature of Tyson. Jones only fought one heavyweight, definitely noone at heavyweight was faster than Tyson, but my point is that many of the fighters that Jones faced in the ring, fought at a faster pace and speed than Tyson as is typical at lower weights. Plus Tyson at the time that the fight was supposed to take place was wasn't as fast as he used to be and wore himself out after 2 rounds of swinging and missing. We're not talking prime for prime. We're talking about Tyson on the tail end of his career, where he would give up after 3 rounds, look for a way out and whine when they dressed his cuts in between rounds.... Vs. a Jones Jr. that just completed the greatest accomplishment of his Career.
Sure people look at the Jones /Green fight and see a grazing shot knock jones retarded. But for the time of the fight happening, Jones looked invincible and tyson couldn't even pull enough of himself together to make it through a fight.

[J_Undisputed]

Even a washed up Tyson had wiskers enough to deal with Jones power for a few rounds....And even a washed up Tyson could keep up a pace that would have Roy on the ropes for a few rounds and somewhere in there Roy would get caught..

Mike is no Tarver, Johnson or Green his shots would have done more damage and I give at least the TKO

You're suggesting that Jones was the same at heavyweight as he was in the Green, Johnson, and Tarver fights? That he would train with the same intent? By the same standard I could say Danny Williams, a man with 1/25 the skill of Jones, lasted 4 rounds with Tyson while he let tyson punch him at will, so Jones should be able to avoid tyson while sleepwalking around the ring. Jones didnt start to languish on the ropes regularly until after the drop in weight and KO losses. Before that, it was only when he took rounds off around 7-9, a point tyson would have given up long before.

Its not a questioning of deal with Jones' power. Jones wouldnt be looking for the KO because it wouldn't be worth the risk. The thought of Tyson walking through Jones punches landing bomb after bomb is pointless. Jones wouldn't stand and trade with Tyson, which would be Tyson's best shot at victory. Instead he'd be using the ring and his speed. It doesnt take a hard superheavyweight jab to keep an opponent off balance or disrupt his rhythm or not let him get his feet set. Jones was in better condition and be concentrating on taking this fight to the later rounds where his offense would pick up after tysons spirit would have already been broken. In the early part of it, dancing and holding would have provided enough time for tyson to give up on himself. Just my opinion.

[levi#1BoxingFan]

I was watching Tarver v Jones Jr 1 the other night and remembered his post fight interview where he said he would never fight in LHW again, wanted to go back up to HW and fight Tyson then retire.

Just wanting to know why this fight never took place and had it, who would've won at the time?

I just made this same thread no more than a month ago.