Perception of effort, not muscle fatigue, limits endurance performance

[HerbM]

Perception of effort, not muscle fatigue, limits endurance performance Perception of effort, not muscle fatigue, limits endurance performance

As recently as 2008, scientific research papers were citing the theory that endurance performance is limited by the capacity of the skeletal muscles, heart and lungs and that exhaustion occurs when the active muscles are unable to produce the force or power required by prolonged exercise.

Dr Sam Marcora, an exercise physiologist at Bangor University, has now disproved this for the first time and proposed an alternative - that it is your perception of effort that limits your endurance performance, not the actual capability of your muscles. He showed that the muscles were still able to achieve the power output required by endurance exercise even when the point of perceived exhaustion had been reached.


This will inevitably lead to new training and coaching techniques, based on this new understanding of the role of perceived effort in endurance performance.

There is more worth reading both at PhysOrg and in the offered links to the original paper -- even if many advanced trainers and athletes know this already it is good to get the science....

Actual paper:
The limit to exercise tolerance in humans: mind over muscle?
SpringerLink - Journal Article The full text does not appear to be available for free.

Personal note: I am thinking specifically of boxing of course, and examples such as hard, fast jabs over and over (and over....)

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HerbM

[Jacumba Hooker]

It would be interesting to read the whole article, but from what is mentioned in the abstract it appears that they tested aerobic endurance such as would be seen in jogging or cylcling.

Boxing (amateur) is about 20/80 aerobic/anaerobic and would probably not be relevent to the findings due to the different energy systems used.

[HerbM]

20/80 -- is that because AMATEUR bouts are so short, both per round and number of rounds?

Seems like a pro fight going 6 rounds or more would be similar endurance to a long run or bicycle race...

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HerbM

[Scrap]

Thought the same thing for years, its all about Feel.

[Jacumba Hooker]

20/80 -- is that because AMATEUR bouts are so short, both per round and number of rounds?

Seems like a pro fight going 6 rounds or more would be similar endurance to a long run or bicycle race...

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HerbM

The explosive movements in boxing - i.e. attacking/defending footwork and punching - are the anaerobic element. With a decreased amount of time to 'get the job done' (in the amateurs) there are more of these explosive actions in a shorter time period. Professional boxing is still highly anaerobic, but the anaerobic elements are spread out over a longer period (either longer rounds or more rounds).

Long-steady runs for amateur boxing in particular are not really neccessary as they do not reflect the nature of the sport. Just as the tests conducted in 'mind over matter' hypothesis posted above. Steady-state aerobic work is relevent to steady-state aerobic sport. Swimming to swimming and boxing to boxing.

The psychology invovled still holds true to an extent though. I have an amateur boxer who is extremely fit (as determined by HR recovery etc.) and can blast through training (with effort) every time. But put him in the ring and after the first round he doubts his fitness; things tighten up (mentaly then physically) then every effort he makes takes twice the energy and he becomes fatigued very quickly.

I have another boxer who is fit, but no where near as fit as the first guy (but is in good shape) and he can do three or four rounds of competetive boxing standing on his head (and a dozen rounds of sparring). Part of it is probably due to the fact that he thinks he can. Part is probably due to the fact that he is very relaxed in the ring. He moves with greater fluidity and rarely seems to be flustered.

The people in the experiment may well have been endurance athletes - if that was the case then there was a kind of level playing field to start with. Anyone with a greater degree of 'mental toughness' would undoubtedly have the abilty to keep going when the pain set in - providing of course that the work is still aerobic. Once anaerobic elements come into play no amount of mental toughness is going to keep you going (past a certain point).

While the physical elements of amateur boxing may be 20/80 aerobic/anaerobic the physical/mental aspect is probably about the same.

[Scrap]

Been experimenting in this kind of field for some time. Its a very interesting Field, Gravity and the concept of Feel and touch ie Impact. I can tell you now there has been a Breakthrough.

[HerbM]

Been experimenting in this kind of field for some time. Its a very interesting Field, Gravity and the concept of Feel and touch ie Impact. I can tell you now there has been a Breakthrough.

I love breakthroughs, and all of your posts Scrap, so please share....

[Scrap]

As soon as the video is completed, Ill put it up. It has had 6 years of Tests done on the system, the Sports Council bless them have put thousands in, in fact the top Uni on Sports Science are doing a 3 year PHd study on the concept. I can say the early results baffled many. Aerobic capacity with Anaerobic results, oh and no impact .

[AdamGB]

There's storys of old women dead lifting cars that were crushing people etc because the of the adrenalin in the situations people are able to push their bodys to their very limit.

What you don't hear is that these people don't do these things, stroll home and eat some cornflakes... they tear there muscle fibres, crush rupture, connective tissue and almost or actually snap their tendons.

Your muscles never reach full contraction because they'd tear themselves apart, your nerve impulse don't want to be that strong, that's why if somebody grips a live wire/fence etc the current will make it so that they are unable to let go and are VERY hard to prize off.

That's why your mind limits your body, it is prolonging your tissue from long term damage.

Take for example the golgi tendon organ, it's job is to detect when a muscle is trying to generate force against an object that requires more force than to move than the muscle fibre and tendons can tolerate with out serious damage - if they reach this point than the golgi force the muscle to relax.

Lets say that there were two handles in a concrete floor and you squatted down and held them and then tried to stand up with out letting go of them, if nervous system wasn't imposing limits then you would literally tear the majority of the muscles in your body away from the bones as you stood.

I know that the article is about endurance rather than strength but the point I'm making is body is limited within itself for a certain reason too - various molecules needed by the body, enzymes, peptides, minerals etc all get used up during activity your body will not let you deplete these past a certain point because it needs them to function on the most basic of levels (ie: comatose ) deplete these through continous activity and you've got problems.

Doesn't mean that you shouldn't be pushing yourself in training, but you have to train smart, if you were smashing your limits continoiusly all you';d do is exceed your limit to recover and adapt to training, remember

training, stress, stimulate, rest, adapt, progress.

^ your training needs ALL of those and in that order and there needs to be a balance.

and of course mentally during competition you'll be able to push out that extra 5-10%, but this has been known for decades, if not centruries.

[AdamGB]

20/80 -- is that because AMATEUR bouts are so short, both per round and number of rounds?

Seems like a pro fight going 6 rounds or more would be similar endurance to a long run or bicycle race...

--
HerbM

The explosive movements in boxing - i.e. attacking/defending footwork and punching - are the anaerobic element. With a decreased amount of time to 'get the job done' (in the amateurs) there are more of these explosive actions in a shorter time period. Professional boxing is still highly anaerobic, but the anaerobic elements are spread out over a longer period (either longer rounds or more rounds).

Long-steady runs for amateur boxing in particular are not really neccessary as they do not reflect the nature of the sport. Just as the tests conducted in 'mind over matter' hypothesis posted above. Steady-state aerobic work is relevent to steady-state aerobic sport. Swimming to swimming and boxing to boxing.

The psychology invovled still holds true to an extent though. I have an amateur boxer who is extremely fit (as determined by HR recovery etc.) and can blast through training (with effort) every time. But put him in the ring and after the first round he doubts his fitness; things tighten up (mentaly then physically) then every effort he makes takes twice the energy and he becomes fatigued very quickly.

I have another boxer who is fit, but no where near as fit as the first guy (but is in good shape) and he can do three or four rounds of competetive boxing standing on his head (and a dozen rounds of sparring). Part of it is probably due to the fact that he thinks he can. Part is probably due to the fact that he is very relaxed in the ring. He moves with greater fluidity and rarely seems to be flustered.

The people in the experiment may well have been endurance athletes - if that was the case then there was a kind of level playing field to start with. Anyone with a greater degree of 'mental toughness' would undoubtedly have the abilty to keep going when the pain set in - providing of course that the work is still aerobic. Once anaerobic elements come into play no amount of mental toughness is going to keep you going (past a certain point).

While the physical elements of amateur boxing may be 20/80 aerobic/anaerobic the physical/mental aspect is probably about the same.

Great post, welcome.