Fading while walking someone down

[HerbM]

Coach has me doing this drill where my partner is backing up with a jab, and my job is to just walk him down (forward) while Fading (left and right) by breaking at the waist just enough to clear my head.

He also wants me to PUSH with the back foot to take all (forward) steps which I do ok when not trying to do this fade at the same time.

Coach is not happy with my execution of this -- he has said I look like various animals including a bear and a bull (I cleaned it up a bit since kids might be reading this.) Apparently it is NOT pretty.

Peculiar to me is that my spinal mobility is a little reduced from arthritis (no pain, just not much mobility) but I can fade this much when standing still.

Coach also told me I must NOT fade WHILE MOVING and hitting the heavy bag -- only use the fade when stationary -- which is a little bit inconsistent but hey, he's the coach and I really try to do every exercise the way he wants it. So far I am learning a lot doing it his way. And maybe he just means you shouldn't move LATERALLY so this isn't same as going forward.

Question: Suggestions for actually doing this? Counter ideas? Is this hard or is it just me?

It's difficult to push with the back foot, especially while fading AND keeping good balance.

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated....

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HerbM

[Chris Nagel]

Usually, the "Fade" is a term meaning to pull back, or lean away from a punch, just like what Floyd Mayweather and Muhammad Ali often would do.

What you coach is instructing, isn't about slipping a punch, more like bending over a little to the side when you step forward, right? If the motion is more or less the same as slipping, maybe you can just work on slipping with your coach. Have him put on his pads, and throw you a jab that you slip inside or outside, while simultaneously stepping forward. That'd be good to practice, and then when you have the movement down you should still be able to do it whether it's in response to a punch or not.

On a separate note, while your opponent is backing up jabbing, you could also practice catching their jab, while at the same time stepping forward and throwing a counter jab.

[HerbM]

After I posted it occurred to me I really should have been more explicit.

You are correct -- what my coach calls fading is bending to the right or left to get the head off line.

I don't get to have my Coach do anything -- he's really a good coach but his style is very autocratic and authoritarian (he does a perfect imitation of a cross between an Army Drill Sergeant and Marine Drill Instructor.)

Catching makes good sense -- and especially for me due to flexibility and good use of my. I am actually pretty good at catching and counter-jabbing (at least for a beginning boxer so I am making no great claim).

Right now, I am just trying to perform this exercise as given.

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HerbM

[HerbM]

For now, I am just doing the obvious: working the exercise at home or at the gym like shadow boxing. Walk and fade left and/or right.

It's pretty awkward for me but practice slowly might get me some improvement.

FYI: Getting hot here in Texas with the coming of spring. About 80 tonight at 5:30 pm for boxing class.

Last night, I lost 8 lbs "on the scale" in 2 1/2 hours plus another 1 1/2 lbs that I replaced for a total water loss of 9 1/2 lbs. Blood pressure went real low of course.

Coach sent me home half way through my second class and that was likely a good thing.

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HerbM

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

Hey Herb

Just a quick one. As a coach, I would not teach boxers to bend at the waist when slipping (slipping being what I assume is fading). A slip is the result of a 'thrust' from the legs in order to rotate the hips just enough (as an orthodox a push from the back leg will enable a slip 'inside' an oncoming shot and vice versa for the slip 'outside'. This hip rotation takes the head about a 'fist' width to the side of the oncoming shot. Using the legs and not the waist to provide the rotation should overcome your mobility issues in terms of your back.

In terms of moving forward whilst slipping, you are combining two distinct skills. Not that I particularly like to push my own opinions (honestly!), have a look at this video on moving forward and this video on slipping, maybe they'll help. To put your mind at rest though, your mobility issues re: your back should hold no significance whatsoever in terms of slipping on the offensive, so keep practising in the mirrors aiming for efficiency of movement.

Cheers Herb

Fran

[HerbM]

Thank you so much Fran (and the others) for helping me with this. I watched your videos and learned some useful ideas about movement and defense.

First, my training in moving forward and backward is largely what you are teaching -- especially the push. [Coach has us a bit wider in stance and the front foot straight ahead however.]

FYI -- when you push forward/back, the YouTube/Flash video compression is so 'effective' that it pretty much shows you re-appearing in the new position -- you sort of teleport in the video. That is really a useful boxing skill.

I LIKE what you term slipping for accomplishing the same thing that my coach calls fading, but he is definitely requiring us to bend at the waist -- sideways only, so he does agree with you about not bending forward.

Your method uses mostly hips and knees to move the head and leaves the spine vertical which my Systema teaches me is highly desirable -- good posture/form is a critical fundamental in Systema. We only violate this principle when absolutely necessary and IMMEDIATELY restore our form as quickly as feasible.

I am going to practice what you show in the video -- not to replace what my coach is requiring but as another choice (which I a more likely to actually use if someone is throwing punches to hurt me.]

[Fading might not even be a standard term in boxing -- doing a Google search for this actually results in this thread as the #1 or #2 listing (for descriptions of movement as opposed to the 'fading glory' of boxing.]

So NONE of the following is to disagree with you, but only to state what my coach and my post mean in physical terms so you folks can help me do this better...

Personally, I think of slipping as (any) movement of the targeted body part (i.e., head or body) which causes a punch to miss, especially if the punch makes contact but through rotation or side movement you keep it from making solid contact. But some people might call much of these techniques 'rolling' with the punch.

And my coach uses fading very specifically to mean (only) breaking at the waist so as to move the head (ideally 1 glove width) to the right or left. So he means for us to do a small right or left side bend without hip movement, and to take our gloves (usually in peek-a-boo or ear muff position) with our head.

So by these (perhaps incorrect) definitions, 'fading' MIGHT be particular form of 'slipping', or something slight different.

In Systema and Aikido we are taught to roll, twist, move pivot or otherwise move the target area so that a punch cannot land solidly. My coach is talking only about a dodging by bending sideways when he say, "Fading".

So, I still need to figure out how to do my coach's exercise -- gracefully -- and perhaps how to do your (Coach Fran's) slipping while moving forward.

Frankly I am pretty good at catching, parrying, deflecting, rolling, or just absorbing punches and I am not excited about any method of getting my head out of the way that contorts my form or slows down my movement.

I still need to do the exercise and see what useful skills it develops in me.