America is an illegal and racist country much like Israel

[El Kabong]

OK Mods, anyone care to explain why generalbulldog is now showing up as banned?

He's got "BANNED"... not "Banned".

He's trying to be hip that's all. I think he's been hangin out too much at the boxingscene forum.

Yes I understand that part...I'm just trying to figure out "why", did he ask for it or did he "ask for it"?


But I guess that's just me being nosey wanting to know too much, stirring up trouble and all.

[Gandalf]

I had a feeling that this thread would spark some reaction and that I would get some flak for it. I've no problems with that. I finished a game and then suddenly my mind started to wander and I decided to put those thoughts in a thread.

I must make a point though. I am not trying to say that Europeans haven't caused a lot of wrong in the world through the terrible processes of colonisation, but I was playing a game where Indians had been forced to leave their land and all for these horrid invaders who really had no right to the land. I then made a comparison with what Israel is doing to Palestine today. They are gradually stealing land from an indigenous population and the world just sits and watches. We went to war for WMD and yet we ignore the very same process that helped to create America today. I think part of that is a historical and current belief that the native Indians were primitive and that Arab lives simply aren't worth as much as Jewish lives.

I don't think that is a particularly controversial thing to say, and is all backed up by government action and policy.

[Gandalf]

I agree with Miles. I think America should be closed.

Haha, Thank you Ono.

[Spicoli]

We did seriously fook over the natives,badly and repeatedly. I'd venture that every established nation took shape over the backs of the indigenous. This Country, "founders" has been on both ends really. Why I always get a kick out of some folks losing minds over Immigrants.

[El Kabong]

We did seriously fook over the natives,badly and repeatedly. I'd venture that every established nation took shape over the backs of the indigenous. This Country, "founders" has been on both ends really. Why I always get a kick out of some folks losing minds over Immigrants.

#1 That was the way of the world back then...compare the US to Mexico, I bet Mexico's Natives WISH they had the chance to go on a Trail of Tears (IMO that was a horrible choice by our President one of the worst next to inturning the Japanese during World War II and giving Saddam Hussein and Pinochet power).

#2 That's always been the case...Irish, the Germans and Northern Europeans, then the Italians and Eastern Europeans...they all caught hell from the citizens of the US. It's no suprise to me.

[CFH]

OK Mods, anyone care to explain why generalbulldog is now showing up as banned?

He's got "BANNED"... not "Banned".

He's trying to be hip that's all. I think he's been hangin out too much at the boxingscene forum.

Yes I understand that part...I'm just trying to figure out "why", did he ask for it or did he "ask for it"?


But I guess that's just me being nosey wanting to know too much, stirring up trouble and all.

I believe he wrote it himself. As far as I know it has nothing to do with any Mods.

[Gandalf]

I dwell on America becuase you are creating most of the worlds misery. Right now America and Israel are responsibly for much of the world's misery. If I was around 80 years ago my motives would obviously have been different. The British would have been my targets. In fact even now they are.

You talk of 'radical terrorists'..spoken like a truly uninformed American...what radical terrorists, Amat? The ones created by years of systematic abuse? Both economic and military? How many did you kill in Iraq and for what purpose exactly? Opening a Burger King in the Green Zone? Nice! Then there is Afghanistan and what about the economic invasions in countries such as Argentina, Uruguay, Poland, China, Russia and so on.
.

It's like you have your posts picked out, you know what you want to say regardless of what the responses you get are. Uninformed American? How come you feel the need to discredit every single person you argue with? Don't you realize how petty and childish this makes you look? It's fucken ridiculous.

I know full well that America has blame for the hostilities that the middle east holds toward us. However, they should still be held accountable for blowing up open markets and destroying civilians just like we should. What would you call these people who strap explosives to themselves if they aren't radical terrorists? Do you have a better word for them?

How about some accountability on these people's behalves. What do you suppose we call the organizations I refer to as radical terrorists? Freedom fighters? What is Osama Bin Laden to you?

I feel the need to discredit the vast bulk of a population that is forced to digest a god awful right wing media everyday. It's only in recent years that the US intelligentsia has started to come to terms with it own genocidal history. It still has some way to go considering all the romanticisation of the Wild West that emerged at the start of the 20th century through literature and cinema. It wasn't romantic, it was racist and genocidal. Again, I don't find that a controversial thing to say.

I regard the troops currently in Iraq as invaders and occupiers. Those who wish to liberate their country of such a force are obviously freedom fighters and those who argue their case through journals and articles are the resistence. We have no right to be there and the only people that have gained are those with sound investments in the military industrial complex, not Iraqi citizens who are forced to live in chaos and fear. We can all talk of liberation and freedom....but does the average Iraqi really have that today? Come on now. All this stealth and fire for a bunch of people finally snapping at all America had been doing to the world for the past 40 years?

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

[El Kabong]

I believe he wrote it himself. As far as I know it has nothing to do with any Mods.

...I caught on since PacStraightLeft did it too

I just don't trust mods is all......bunch of power hungry jerks IMO

[El Kabong]

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years ago

miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.

[Gandalf]

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years ago

miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.

Should never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?

Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.

[CFH]

I believe he wrote it himself. As far as I know it has nothing to do with any Mods.

...I caught on since PacStraightLeft did it too

I just don't trust mods is all......bunch of power hungry jerks IMO

Believe me, if I was interested in abusing what little power I have you would have been banned a long time ago .

[amat]

Take the shame and move on. Don't try to bomb the rest of the world into the stone age.

...well I guess we can leave Afghanistan ooooh some 9 years ago

miles....I don't hate you or anything I just think you are looking at this in a flawed manner and that's below you, and the fact that you don't recognize it is just sad.

Should never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?

Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.

Yeah who are we fighting? Al Qaeda and the taliban. Ohh but my guess is you think we shouldn't be fighting the Taliban, correct? Yet the Taliban are a breed of pure evil (this isn't right wing media talking, this is the truth) that people like me and you can't even begin to comprehend. Heinous, heinous people who do awful things and live life completely backwards, yet since they weren't the ones who ran the planes into the building, I guess we have no business interfering with their way of business.

But let me guess, we played a huge hand into putting them into power, that was going to be your next argument right? Why does that matter though? We have put evil people into power before and had to remove them, the Taliban need to be eradicated. This is a simple fact. I believe this with all of my heart, there is no other way to go about dealing with them.

Iraq is a cluster fuck, I know this. Our military planning going into Afghanistan kind of sucked. That's a bureaucracy problem, we are not the bad guys in Afghanistan. Iraq is more murky, we were WRONG to go in there and because of that we have the blood of a country's civil war on our hands. Still, we aren't the only bad guys their either and if you truly believe we are then you are simply detached from reality. I guess you aren't fully to blame as what you are reading is from anti-Imperialists who are actually just anti-Americans and people who have likely never stepped foot in Iraq or Afghanistan in their lives. It's made clear by your posts too.

[Fenster]

You know I think you are a good guy Miles and yes you are in some ways right about America and in some ways I think you are being really myopic about this topic. Although America has it's faults, we still cannot compare to the various European nation states that has wreaked havoc in this world the last 400-500 years. Slavery, colonization, genocide, the Americans are nothing compared to you guys.

We sure as hell didn't start 2 catastrophic wars in the 20th century (WWI and II), we sure as hell didn't rape the continent of Africa, the East, Southeast, and South Asian countries through colonization.

Hell even the Vietnam war where Americans got involved was started by you guys because you guys didn't want to decolonize Indochina (the 3 nation states of Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos) because your economies was wrecked by something you guys started called the 2nd World War and wanted to rebuild your economies again by exploiting that land and its people for cheap labor and called for American involvement why you were losing badly against the Viet Minh forces. Also, you want to know why Mexico and the various Latin American countries have a very heavily influenced Spanish culture and language? Should I talk about the Opium Wars you guys had with China in the 19th century? Or how the various European countries ganged up on China exploiting that land and its people for resources?

We have our faults, but Americans compared to Europeans, we look like saints. I make no apologies for some of the things America has done, but we sure as hell hasn't fucked up this world severely like how Europeans have done.

The only people in Britain that regard themselves as European are those playing in the Ryder Cup.

[Kev]

I had a feeling that this thread would spark some reaction and that I would get some flak for it. I've no problems with that. I finished a game and then suddenly my mind started to wander and I decided to put those thoughts in a thread.

I must make a point though. I am not trying to say that Europeans haven't caused a lot of wrong in the world through the terrible processes of colonisation, but I was playing a game where Indians had been forced to leave their land and all for these horrid invaders who really had no right to the land. I then made a comparison with what Israel is doing to Palestine today. They are gradually stealing land from an indigenous population and the world just sits and watches. We went to war for WMD and yet we ignore the very same process that helped to create America today. I think part of that is a historical and current belief that the native Indians were primitive and that Arab lives simply aren't worth as much as Jewish lives.

I don't think that is a particularly controversial thing to say, and is all backed up by government action and policy.

Well I don't really have much to say, but a chance to wind Miles up cannot be ignored.

First off, you say the Jews took the land from its owners. They didn't. The people who lived there did not own the land. It was originally a territory of the Ottaman Empire and was then taken over by the British, who set up a mandate to legally give the land to the Jews. They have MORE of a legitimate claim to their land then virtually any other nation as it was ratified in a court of law

Second there were no indigenous people. There never was an indigenous Palestine. They comprise many races, Greek, Egyptain, Syrian, Bosnian ,Druzes etc. In fact in 1920 over 50 different languages were being spoken in Palestine.

Thirdly, the Jews didn't expel the Palestinians the Arabs did! They wanted them out of the way so they wouldn't interfere with their Jew slaughterings.

Unfortunately that war didn't go so well for the Arabs and they lost horribly. The Jews understandably were rather distrusting of their neighbours from that point on.

[El Kabong]

Should never have gone there in the first place. There were other ways to go after Al Qaeda and those ways should have been exhausted before any invasion of another country. That's why we are are there 9 years later fighting who exactly?

Likewise, I don't hate you. We usually oppose each other on issues such as this, but I see no harm in pointing out the similarities in how supposedly superior cultures are allowed to steal the land of indigenous populations. Or even bomb others without due cause.

#1 NO, we should have just stayed there in the 1980's and all this Al Queda, Taliban bullshit would have been avoided had we just given the Afghani people a hand in building their country after they got rid of the Soviets.

#2 Once again my issue with the way you are viewing this is that you judge the PAST by the morals and values we have TODAY. That is a flawed logic because the way we look at things today is incredibly different than the reality of life in the past. Now if we're talking recent past then there may be a little room for you to look at those events the way you're already looking at things.