Learning Distance and Range

[The Student]

Hey guys,

I was wondering what are some of the drills and tricks you guys use or used to get a good understanding of distance and range.

I know the heavy bag is a great tool to learn range. But I find that sometimes my shots to the bag are cut short becuase the bag is moving more than I am. Every now and then I hear the coach yelling, "move your feet guys, you should always land your shots with full extension".

The idea of moving your feet can be simple enough but for a relative beginner, I assume the issue becomes how much to move, or when to throw that shot out to catch the bag when your arm is extended... This seems to be an issue for distance and range.

One of the techniques I remember reading by Scrap was to tie a belt around the bag and one around your waist I believe, and use an elastic rope which is 4 inches longer than your reach tied between the belt on ur waist and the bag.. then use the bag, so that you have constant feedback from the rope to give you a sense of feel for your range and distance. Not sure if I remember that correctly, but I'm going to try that one out if I have the details of the exercise right.

Anybody else have any ideas or tips to improve distance and range with or without a heavybag?

[HerbM]

Hey guys,

... know the heavy bag is a great tool to learn range. But I find that sometimes my shots to the bag are cut short becuase the bag is moving more than I am. Every now and then I hear the coach yelling, "move your feet guys, you should always land your shots with full extension".

The idea of moving your feet can be simple enough but for a relative beginner, I assume the issue becomes how much to move, or when to throw that shot out to catch the bag when your arm is extended... This seems to be an issue for distance and range.

...
Anybody else have any ideas or tips to improve distance and range with or without a heavybag?

From the beginning (actually about a week after that) of my boxing training I was expected to ALWAYS move and hit, only stopping briefly for a combination.

If the bag is moving and you are not always hitting it clearly (but doing so some of the time) then that would seem t be a very good way to learn range and timing. A key trick to developing any skill is to find a way to practice it so that you cannot quite do it successfully (all of the time.)

Work slow, or work a slightly easier problem, then speed up or add complexity and difficulty so that you are always on the edge of your ability.

Double ended bags would seem a good idea here too.

Light sparring where you are JUST tapping your partner will force accuracy when the target is unpredictably moving -- you need a partner that isn't ego driven but wants to see that BOTH of you LEARN and IMPROVE.

[The Student]

Hey guys,

... know the heavy bag is a great tool to learn range. But I find that sometimes my shots to the bag are cut short becuase the bag is moving more than I am. Every now and then I hear the coach yelling, "move your feet guys, you should always land your shots with full extension".

The idea of moving your feet can be simple enough but for a relative beginner, I assume the issue becomes how much to move, or when to throw that shot out to catch the bag when your arm is extended... This seems to be an issue for distance and range.

...
Anybody else have any ideas or tips to improve distance and range with or without a heavybag?

From the beginning (actually about a week after that) of my boxing training I was expected to ALWAYS move and hit, only stopping briefly for a combination.

If the bag is moving and you are not always hitting it clearly (but doing so some of the time) then that would seem t be a very good way to learn range and timing. A key trick to developing any skill is to find a way to practice it so that you cannot quite do it successfully (all of the time.)

Work slow, or work a slightly easier problem, then speed up or add complexity and difficulty so that you are always on the edge of your ability.

Double ended bags would seem a good idea here too.

Light sparring where you are JUST tapping your partner will force accuracy when the target is unpredictably moving -- you need a partner that isn't ego driven but wants to see that BOTH of you LEARN and IMPROVE.

Thanks for the response Herb.

I do always move and hit, always have as well. But, when you see someone with a lot of experience working the bag, you can see that they have a better understanding of distance, range and timing. As the saying goes, work the bag, dont let the bag work you.

They also say one of the major issues a beginner has is; learning, knowing and trusting his range. I see a lot of guys that do not trust their range and come closer than they need to, to throw a shot.

Also light sparring is great, I use that tool as often as I can when I get someone to work with. I'm not interested in hard sparring just yet. I need to build a strong base of the fundamentals through light sparring (just tapping), shadow boxing, bag work, etc. before I jump in there.

I'm thinking something as simple as extending your arm and pushing the bag, and moving forward and backwards with it while it swings, always maintaining that range/distance may help as well.

[HerbM]

Yes, you do need to trust your range.

I almost didn't respond at first since this has never been much of an issue for me -- I have a weird spacial sense where I can pretty much see distances and such better than than some people can do by measuring.

We were practicing knife vs. knife (combatives not boxing of course) tonight and a big part of the drill I setup for my friend was getting within range of hitting his hand and also sometimes leaving my hand out there a little for him to "see" it was in range.

As you might guess, range and judging distance with knives is even more critical since almost any knife 'touch' does some damage and a good strike can lop off a finger or worse.

Keep practicing. A big point in your favor is you are trying to WORK the drills and truly PRACTICE rather than just doing exercise.

Keep up the work -- pay attention to the details like you are doing and progress will be fast and sure for you.

[The Student]

Yes, you do need to trust your range.

I almost didn't respond at first since this has never been much of an issue for me -- I have a weird spacial sense where I can pretty much see distances and such better than than some people can do by measuring.

We were practicing knife vs. knife (combatives not boxing of course) tonight and a big part of the drill I setup for my friend was getting within range of hitting his hand and also sometimes leaving my hand out there a little for him to "see" it was in range.

As you might guess, range and judging distance with knives is even more critical since almost any knife 'touch' does some damage and a good strike can lop off a finger or worse.

Keep practicing. A big point in your favor is you are trying to WORK the drills and truly PRACTICE rather than just doing exercise.

Keep up the work -- pay attention to the details like you are doing and progress will be fast and sure for you.

Thanks for your comments once again Herb...

I can imagine distance, range, and timing is absolutely critical for someone doing knife to knife combat. Make sure you stay sharp practicing that stuff

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

Some very good points in there. This issue of establishing your range is always a hill to overcome during the initial stages of learning boxing, and even for more experienced guys meeting a new type of opponent (e.g. someone shorter than you with what seems like an unfeasibly long reach) can cause problems. Effective range finding is always something that should be dealt with with very small movements (Scrap's 4" principle is very relevant here, and indeed being at long range and being out of range can often be a difference of only 1".)

I wonder whether these 2 articles might help, one for context and the other as a direct drill to allow practical application (apologies if you've already seen these 2 as I know you take you're Saddo name literally in that you like to study the detail!) In fact, the drill itself does not sound dissimilar to Herb's combative drill re: knife practice.

Finding Your Range in Boxing

Footwork Drill - Boxing Tag

Hope these help mate

Cheers

Fran

[The Student]

Some very good points in there. This issue of establishing your range is always a hill to overcome during the initial stages of learning boxing, and even for more experienced guys meeting a new type of opponent (e.g. someone shorter than you with what seems like an unfeasibly long reach) can cause problems. Effective range finding is always something that should be dealt with with very small movements (Scrap's 4" principle is very relevant here, and indeed being at long range and being out of range can often be a difference of only 1".)

I wonder whether these 2 articles might help, one for context and the other as a direct drill to allow practical application (apologies if you've already seen these 2 as I know you take you're Saddo name literally in that you like to study the detail!) In fact, the drill itself does not sound dissimilar to Herb's combative drill re: knife practice.

Finding Your Range in Boxing

Footwork Drill - Boxing Tag

Hope these help mate

Cheers

Fran

Thanks for your input Fran.

I never came across that first article you posted. Very informative as usual and I like the fact that you always add a video to illustrate the theory that you're explaining to give the reader the practical applications of what you're saying.

As far as the tag boxing goes, I just gotta find a partner to do that with. As I mentioned to you before, I tried it once, but was doing it completely wrong so I need to do the drill again, correctly this time, to truly benefit from it.

I keep forgetting about that drill, but it should most definitely help with distance, range and timing.

Thanks

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

if it's something that you do, week in week out, I promise it will help. Even the international boxers that I work with do this with raw novices, and both benefit. Stick with it mate, it will bring rewards!

Fran

[iceman]

hope this helps, its a start

[The Student]

I've come across a lot of stuff by Kenny Weldon. A lot of good stuff, but I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with what he's saying in that video.

I'm by no means an expert, but I dont know about stepping forward with your lead leg and leaving yourself so wide open. I would imagine you would lose a lot of mobility by doing that, and be very susceptible to your opponents counter punches.

.. but what do I know, maybe some of the more experienced members can weigh in on that.

Thanks for sharing though, I appreciate it.

[iceman]

well you don't put all your weight on that front foot, and as you see the distance is very easy to hit the guy...shuffle in and chasing him will lead to a lot of frustration.

[God.in.my.corner]

That video also ties in about how important it is to 'box on the back foot'. Your weight should be back here, and you can take a small lead step- and move from the edge of range to long range. The small step is almost like widening you stance, your back foot can almost stay in the same spot for balance and leverage. The important thing is to not have your base stance too wide initially too.

[donnydarkoIRL]

I've come across a lot of stuff by Kenny Weldon. A lot of good stuff, but I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with what he's saying in that video.

I'm by no means an expert, but I dont know about stepping forward with your lead leg and leaving yourself so wide open. I would imagine you would lose a lot of mobility by doing that, and be very susceptible to your opponents counter punches.

.. but what do I know, maybe some of the more experienced members can weigh in on that.

Thanks for sharing though, I appreciate it.

I think he has a lot of good points and the right concept.
I use a very similar technique but I always try to let my feet take me there.

[Fran@myboxingcoach]

Interesting video Ice.

I've never seen any of Kenny Weldon's videos, but have heard of him. I fully agree with the principle of being out of range and moving in with shots to get to long range (shots can also be exchanged with feints, but the key is the combining of the foot movements with the punches.) I just wonder whether that step out is simply too far. It's an awful lot of ground to cover in quick time and the risk is high of walking straight onto incoming. This said, the idea of not ambling in to range before throwing the shot makes absolute sense.

In terms of the widening of the stance, I wonder whether he means this literally. To widen the stance to that extent would restrict the range of shots, meaning that you could probably get one shot off, but could a combination follow? I like to see this stance widening used, but generally by a boxer who's at long range and they step out with the back foot momentarily to take the head out of range, then close the stance up pretty much instantly; it's a variation on the layback. It's very useful against an opponent who has maybe lost the will to fight too hard and throws single shots from a standing position. Bit risky using it against a maniac who attacks at all costs though.

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity of seeing this vid, very interesting.

[Youngblood]

To widen the stance to that extent would restrict the range of shots, meaning that you could probably get one shot off, but could a combination follow? I like to see this stance widening used, but generally by a boxer who's at long range and they step out with the back foot momentarily to take the head out of range, then close the stance up pretty much instantly; it's a variation on the layback. It's very useful against an opponent who has maybe lost the will to fight too hard and throws single shots from a standing position. Bit risky using it against a maniac who attacks at all costs though.

Anyway, thanks for the opportunity of seeing this vid, very interesting.

ya this is something I've recently worked on as a range fighter. I was expending way too much energy in counters, essentially jumping both feet out of range, then back in for the counters...but by only moving the back foot out, and leaning back, slight slip or duck w/e...not only am I finding the counters faster and more powerful when closing, but part of the economy of energy i was also looking for.