Does Pacquiao deserve all the hate???

[:::PSL:::]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

[Gandalf]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

So, how much is Mosley being paid as compared to what Marquez asked? Sources?

[ICB]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

Beating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.

[Gandalf]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

Beating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.

Nah, CW's are cool and so is fighting people who should be banned for life and so is fighting old former legend's who have forgotten how to win a fight.

But full props on beating Clottey. It wasn't Pac's fault he refused to fight.

[:::PSL:::]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

So, how much is Mosley being paid as compared to what Marquez asked? Sources?

Dude. I don't know. I haven't eaten my breakfast. Find it out yourself.

But JMM outpriced himself according to Arum. Google that too.

[ICB]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

Beating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.

Nah, CW's are cool and so is fighting people who should be banned for life and so is fighting old former legend's who have forgotten how to win a fight.

But full props on beating Clottey. It wasn't Pac's fault he refused to fight.

Who else could he have fought at Welterweight ? except for Floyd Mayweather Jr ? the only other name is Andre Berto. Infact Manny Pacquiao cleaned out the division which Floyd Mayweather Jr should of done.

Instead he fought the likes of Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, Undersized JMM. We can all hate on anyone's record Miles.

[Gandalf]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

So, how much is Mosley being paid as compared to what Marquez asked? Sources?

Dude. I don't know. I haven't eaten my breakfast. Find it out yourself.

But JMM outpriced himself according to Arum. Google that too.

So, that's according to Arum. Fair enough. But patently not true.

Mosley was selected because he turned rogue and Arum has jumped at the chance. That is why we have this fight. It is nothing to do with Bilbo's nonsense about public demand either, it is simply that Mosley has offered himself on a platter and with Arum looking at the recent history and with Pac's approval they couldn't say no.

Why would they take a bigger risk when they have this. Marquez has beaten Pac twice. Why would you risk it again at 140? In terms of that you can understand Pac. He doesn't want to face a counter puncher that has the blueprint to win rounds against him. At least not under 147. Mosley at 40 and has no stamina beyond 4? It's an ideal platform to look good against.

[Spicoli]

Bacon bits and sharp cheddar cheese ball with Ritz crackers....this is what Christmas eve is about

oh and bait threads

[Gandalf]

Damn right GB. This is a bait thread.

Like the majority, I'm disappointed too. Maybe Pac deserves the hate. But not all of it.

I'm really piss at him for chosing Shane over Berto. Obviously it's more about money now than legacy. But wtf are we gonna do about it?... bitch for 6 months?

This is JMM's fault too. He outpriced himself AGAIN.

Beating Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, would hardly be a reason to get disappointed with your boy.

Nah, CW's are cool and so is fighting people who should be banned for life and so is fighting old former legend's who have forgotten how to win a fight.

But full props on beating Clottey. It wasn't Pac's fault he refused to fight.

Who else could he have fought at Welterweight ? except for Floyd Mayweather Jr ? the only other name is Andre Berto. Infact Manny Pacquiao cleaned out the division which Floyd Mayweather Jr should of done.

Instead he fought the likes of Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah, Undersized JMM. We can all hate on anyone's record Miles.

Are we discussing Manny here or Floyd Mayweather?

He could be fighting Tim Bradley or indeed Andre Berto. If he really wanted to push the envelope he could fight some proper 154 belt holders. Margarito wasn't one! Lol.

But against a fighter who hasn't won in 3 years? How can you defend that?

You cannot defend it because it is ludicrous. It is like defending Holmes against Ali. It is a great champ against a seriously faded legend. It has no justification.

I am a Mosley fan, I don't want to see him get hurt. What satisfaction can one get from this fight. Nobody wants to see Shane Mosley messed up.

[Kev]

Pacquaio is a great fighter, I have no qualms in saying that. He is exciting to watch and brings a lot of excitement to his fights. However, having said that, I do have some issues, but like someone mentioned before that is largely to do with his team. There was no good reason to call Cotto down to a CW, there was no justification for giving Margarito a big fight and there is widespread disdain for choosing to fight Mosley at this point in Mosley's career. We can all point the finger at Roach and Arum, but at the end of the day it is Manny choosing to get in the ring with these people.

We cannot just give unreserved praise to a fighter and it is certainly not hateful to formulate constructive criticism when it is called for.

It's not widespread disdain. It's a few criticisms from within the hardcore boxing fan community. The reason Manny has selected Mosley is because it is a fight that the widespread boxing fanbase want to see.

Every forum that I have read since the fight was made is FULL of people who are repulsed by the prospect of this fight. There are a minority of voices saying that they think the fight is acceptable, but that is it. This is the only gauge of popular opinion that we have.

There is no evidence to suggest that Pacquiao-Mosley is being demanded by the public at this stage. Two years ago there was, but after Mosley has been hammered by Mayweather and laboured his way through 12 rounds against Mora for the draw? Nah, the fight will sell on Pacs current name and the fact that Mosley many years ago was an excellent fighter.

There are better fights and bigger challenges than this and everbody knows it. Were fight fans polled on who they wanted to see Manny fight next? Was this poll secretly given to the general public? Get real, it has been made simply because Mosley went rogue and Arum couldn't turn down the prospect of an easily negotiated fight against an old legend. Easy money in the pocket with a minimal level of risk involvement.

It has next to nothing to do with what the typical boxing fan wants nor expects.

That's forums mate. That's not widespread. Only about 1% of sporting fans are actually sad enough to be posting members of forums.

The fight will likely do over 1 million PPV buys making it one of the most popular sporting events of 2010.

I'm sure Manny's team will take the opinions of 1 million paying fans over the whines of a few thousand nonpaying armchair critics any day.

Right, so we disregard the opinions of all the fans on forums even though these are the only voices we know of. You are telling me that the widespread boxing fanbase wants to see this fight. What evidence do you have to suggest that the average armchair fan wants to see Manny Pac fight a 40 year old Mosley who hasn't won in 3 years above all other possible opponents? Has Mosley been dazzling them with his latest performances? Are we to assume that they have been impressed by what they have seen? Sure, with some snazzy marketing people will be led into buying the fight, but as things stand there is no demand for it. You could market a fight with a number of other fighters and still make great money from it.

It is a fight being built on Manny's name and that of a guy who was last decent a few years back and was excellent many years before. It is an opportunistic scam and the kind of behaviour that turned people against Floyd Mayweather. Pac is doing precisely the same.

There are whiny fans who have criticised every single Pacquiao fight since he left the superfeatherweight division.

David Diaz was a handpicked paper champion
Oscar was a weight drained corpse
Hatton was shot
Cotto was weight drained and forced to fight at a catchweight
Clottey was overated, Manny looked sluggish, he chose to avoid prime fighters in the division
Margarito should never have got the fight, it was a disgusting catchweight, shouldnt have been for a world title.
Manny ducked Floyd, takes PEDS, only fights old, washed up fighters at catchweights etc etc.

Now it's Mosley is old and shot to bits because he lost Floyd and was robbed of a win against Sergio Mora by the judges.

History will assess the fights above as being so momentus as to earn Manny a spot amongst the top 10 greatest fighters to ever grace the sport. But in the eyes of the whiny minority every fight was a travesty.

Look at the end of the day, the whiners and detractors will lose. Manny will be regarded as one of the greatest fighters ever, and nobody will remember or care about any of the rants of the unknown fools who never have anything positive to say about anything.

Well, I haven't criticised Pacquaio for each of these fights. Sure, I have backed against him, but I always give credit where credit is due. In fact Pac deserves full credit for his wins over DLH, Hatton and Clottey. Less so for his wins over Cotto and Margarito. And David Diaz I disregard completely. Mosley though takes Manny firmly into the Floyd Mayweather stratosphere. You would expect this kind of fight from Hatton managed under Warren at the age of 25, not of the best fighter in the world at the age of 32. It's sad and the only reason we have it is because Mosley has gone rogue and sold himself against the interests of Golden Boy. They wanted Marquez for Pac and at 140 that would have been a corker.

I am going to use a political analogy here, but I won't go into politics per se. But basically you sound like an official trying to justify one of Stalin's 5 year plans. The detractors were right and they did see through the official party line and history has proven them correct. You can propagandise Manny as much as you like, but the detractors do have a voice and they will ultimately be heard.

I actually like Manny a lot and think he is an awesome fighter, but you can guarantee I will say my piece when I think there is bullshit at hand and everywhere people are complaining about this. Sure, good old 'Stalin' has access to the media and can convince the world that things aren't quite so bad and thus can sell his regime. But you can't sweep it all under the carpet.

This fight has hurt Manny and we are actually hearing negative calls against Manny in the mainstream media too (Yahoo and ESPN).

Note: I used Soviet politics as an analogy only.

haha this is a sign of how nuts you are! I am not propagandising anything, you are! Shane Mosley has been one of the best fighters of our current generation and all of a sudden after a loss to arguably the world's greatest fighter in Floyd Mayweather he's now washed up, useless, it's a mismatch etc.

Fight fans like you are so fickle. You always judge everything off the last fight. One minute Manny has to fight this guy, a few months later when he is fighting this guy now it's too late, he's washed up, the fight is meaningless.

You argue everything retrospectively, as soon as a fighter has a slip any further wins against him amount to nothing, but if he wins his next fight, all of a sudden he's back in the picture and being dodged again.

Nobody needs to justify Shane Mosley getting a fight against anyone. He's been one of the greatest fighters in the sport for the past 10 years. So he lost one sidedly to Floyd, so what? Marquez lost even more one sidedly. He was floored in his last fight by Michael Katsidis? You don't think Mosley could beat Katsidis?

Mosely deserves his shot. Virtually everyone saw him winning against Sergio Mora, a fighter who had beaten Vernon Forrest, who had twice beaten Shane. Shane has never coped well with tall rangy fighters.

Manny is smaller than him, and a come forward fighter, Shane's ideal opponent to look good against.

With your mindset some of the most famous fights in history couldn't have happened, because the fighter who won didn't deserve to even be in the ring.

You would moaned like fuck about George Foreman taking on a washed up Ali, after years out of the sport, in prison, what a joke fight. You would rained on Mike Tyson for taking on a washed up Evander Holyfield. Bernard Hopkins had no business being in the ring with Jean Pascal last week at 45. And what was Michael Moorer thinking in defending his title against a fat grandfather in George Foreman at 45, in another mismatch joke fight.

You lose all perspective with your whines and gripes.

Pacquaio vs Mosley is a fun fight, it's a great matchup and very crowd friendly. Right now Mosley is the underdog for sure. But are underdogs no longer allowed to exist in fights in Miles' world?

It's a great fight for Manny, a world respected name, a guy who was regarded as the man in the welterweight division only a year or so ago.

You going off about Stalin and propaganda just shows what a loon you are

[Gandalf]

To Bilbo...as the quote thingy got so long so couldn't quote anymore...

Absolute bollocks. You are telling me that Mosley deserves his shot? Based on what? Winning a round against Floyd and arguably outpointing, though getting a draw, against Mora? So, you can get a shot a shot against the best fighter in the world based on winning a round against the best and drawing with a journeyman? And it is me that has lost all perspective? Sure I have....

I like the way you spin it, Bilbo. How many fighters look good after 40 and against the best P4P fighter in the world? Do you have an actual statistic for this? I bet it is zero. Nobody does. Mosley was a great fighter, but he clearly isn't anymore. The fact that you keep trying to defend it perfectly justifies my Russian analogy.

You have nothing to support your claim that Mosley has it anymore. Okay, let's take it back further. Cotto won more rounds against Mosley than Mosley himself could take and Mayorga gave him hell up until the stoppage. That was a Mosley of half a decade ago. And suddenly we are to expect that he has moved on to a new dimension since.

It is pure delusion and used only by Pac fans to try and justify to themseleves that this fight has meaning. My argument has credence and your five year plan will once again look weak when Mosley gets seriously hurt and I really don't want to see that.

[:::PSL:::]

This is like watching TS Hardcore_cash throwing a duck in a pond full of piranhas.

[Kev]

To Bilbo...as the quote thingy got so long so couldn't quote anymore...

Absolute bollocks. You are telling me that Mosley deserves his shot? Based on what? Winning a round against Floyd and arguably outpointing, though getting a draw, against Mora? So, you can get a shot a shot against the best fighter in the world based on winning a round against the best and drawing with a journeyman? And it is me that has lost all perspective? Sure I have....

I like the way you spin it, Bilbo. How many fighters look good after 40 and against the best P4P fighter in the world? Do you have an actual statistic for this? I bet it is zero. Nobody does. Mosley was a great fighter, but he clearly isn't anymore. The fact that you keep trying to defend it perfectly justifies my Russian analogy.

You have nothing to support your claim that Mosley has it anymore. Okay, let's take it back further. Cotto won more rounds against Mosley than Mosley himself could take and Mayorga gave him hell up until the stoppage. That was a Mosley of half a decade ago. And suddenly we are to expect that he has moved on to a new dimension since.

It is pure delusion and used only by Pac fans to try and justify to themseleves that this fight has meaning. My argument has credence and your five year plan will once again look weak when Mosley gets seriously hurt and I really don't want to see that.

So who does deserve the fight with Manny then Miles? Would you like Manny to stop fighting until the Floyd fight could be negotioted? Maybe you would like him to move up and fight for a middleweight world title?

[CFH]

Enough with the Miles is an anti-semite jokes. If you have to say that type of redundant shit, please keep it off the main boards.

[CFH]

Pacquiao may be getting some stick because of his recent choice of opponents, but he's the most popular and beloved boxer on the planet. Sure he has his detractors, but they are far outweighed by his supporters.