175's Golden Age

[marbleheadmaui]

As great as the late 1940's heavyweight scene was with Moore, Charles, Lesnevich, Maxim and Marshall, from about 1977-1984, the light heavyweight division was just on another planet. The division was just loaded with great fighters who fought one another over and over and over again. How great was it? From that division in that stretch of time? Four men then in their primes are in the HOF. Let's go through the major players, I'll try to do this chronologically. All rankings are Ring magazine.

Victor Galindez-The Argentine tough guy has no dominating characteristic, he just knows how to fight. He defeated #2 ranked Len Hutchins for the WBA strap in 1975 and then defended ten times against the # 3, 3, 4,5 and 7 guys. As 1977 rolls around, he is generally considered the man in the division. On his way to the HOF he will beat Pierre Fourie twice, Ritchie Kates twice, Yaqui Lopez twice, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and then split with Mike Rossman and lose to Marvin Johnson (when Johnson breaks his jaw and leaves him draped over the ropes with one of the storied left hands ever thrown) in 1979 and the curtain falls. A genuinely tough man.

Matthew Saad Muhammad-An orphan out of Philadelphia, Miracle Matthew, who is one of the lethal punchers the sport has seen. loses on his way up to Marvin Camel and EM Muhammad. But in 1977 he stops Marvin Johnson, fellow Philadelphian #5 Ritchie Kates and #3 Yaqui Lopez to become a contender. He stops Johnson for the second time to win the WBC belt. He defends twice against European champ and #3 ranked John Conteh, #5 Yaqui Lopez in an impossibly great fight, #7 Lotte Mwale, #7 Murray Sutherland and #4 Jerry Martin. Saad is known for his gigantic heart and miracle comebacks. A good guy, a heartwarming story and enough guts for six heavyweights. HOFer. But in 1981 he runs into the Camden Buzzsaw.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi-This 5'5 HOF ball of thunder learned to fight in Rahway State Prison. He burst on the scene with a KO of former champion Mike Rossman. His bobbing and weaving, get inside and pulverize the other guy is reminiscent of Joe Frazier. Then in one of boxing's electric moments, Qawi returns to the place of his incarceration to fight an inmate. James Scott is in prison for murder. He is also the #3 ranked light heavyweight in the world and fights only in prison. On national TV and in Rahway, Qawi pounds out a clear decision to earn a title shot. Qawi dominates Saad and stops him in ten rounds. He then stops #4 Jerry Martin, stops Saad in a rematch and stops #4 Eddie Davis. Qawi then loses his title to Michael Spinks in a very good fight in a title unification match. But this is not the end for the great Qawi. He moves to cruiserweight, goes to South Africa IN FREAKING 1985 and takes the cruiser belt from #1 ranked Piet Crous. In a magnificent loss Qawi forces Evander Holyfield to grow up right before our eyes.

Michael Spinks-A gigantic 175 standing almost 6'3 with a 76" reach, a good jab and the dreaded "Spinx Jinx," an overhand right.The Olympic champion's first real step up is against future 168 beltholder Murray Sutherland. The Spinks stops #5 Yaqui Lopez and #5 Marvin Johnson to get a title shot. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad holds the WBA belt he took from Marvin Johnson. Spinks wins a clear decision and then defends four times en route to his unification match with Qawi. Now the undisputed king, Spinks beats the #8, #3, #6 and ends with a total of 10 defenses. He then moves up and in one of boxing's storied accomplishments, defeats heavyweight King Larry Holmes.

Now if THOSE were the only guys over those seven years? it would be a marvelous time for the division. But those four were given very, very tough fights by as grueling a set of contenders as you will ever see. I think it is fair to say that any of Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez, EM Muhammad, James Scott, Richie Kates, John Conteh and Mike Rossman would each just tear through the 175 division today. I think each of those guys are better than Jean Pascal or Chad Dawson or Glenn Johnson for example. And there are FOUR GUYS better than any of the seven of them! And that eleven fought each other over and over again, over 30 times in total. What a great time to be a fan that was.

[greynotsoold]

There was a recent thread about where Tarver ranks all-time, and some said that surely he'd be in the top 25 or 30 LHWs...Just in the era you decribe, I doubt he'd have been top 20.

[marbleheadmaui]

There was a recent thread about where Tarver ranks all-time, and some said that surely he'd be in the top 25 or 30 LHWs...Just in the era you decribe, I doubt he'd have been top 20.

I suspect a truly hard man like Dynamite Billy Douglas would have had Tarver running all night long.

[generalbulldog]

Michael Spinks imo has always been underrated as a great boxer. All people remember was the 1st round ko to Tyson. But the guy was an amazing fighter. Lineal LHW champ and Lineal HW champ.

[marbleheadmaui]

Watch rounds 7 and especially round 8 of this 1980 FOTY between Saad Muhammad and The Indian

[IamInuit]

As great as the late 1940's heavyweight scene was with Moore, Charles, Lesnevich, Maxim and Marshall, from about 1977-1984, the light heavyweight division was just on another planet. The division was just loaded with great fighters who fought one another over and over and over again. How great was it? From that division in that stretch of time? Four men then in their primes are in the HOF. Let's go through the major players, I'll try to do this chronologically. All rankings are Ring magazine.

Victor Galindez-The Argentine tough guy has no dominating characteristic, he just knows how to fight. He defeated #2 ranked Len Hutchins for the WBA strap in 1975 and then defended ten times against the # 3, 3, 4,5 and 7 guys. As 1977 rolls around, he is generally considered the man in the division. On his way to the HOF he will beat Pierre Fourie twice, Ritchie Kates twice, Yaqui Lopez twice, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and then split with Mike Rossman and lose to Marvin Johnson (when Johnson breaks his jaw and leaves him draped over the ropes with one of the storied left hands ever thrown) in 1979 and the curtain falls. A genuinely tough man.

Matthew Saad Muhammad-An orphan out of Philadelphia, Miracle Matthew, who is one of the lethal punchers the sport has seen. loses on his way up to Marvin Camel and EM Muhammad. But in 1977 he stops Marvin Johnson, fellow Philadelphian #5 Ritchie Kates and #3 Yaqui Lopez to become a contender. He stops Johnson for the second time to win the WBC belt. He defends twice against European champ and #3 ranked John Conteh, #5 Yaqui Lopez in an impossibly great fight, #7 Lotte Mwale, #7 Murray Sutherland and #4 Jerry Martin. Saad is known for his gigantic heart and miracle comebacks. A good guy, a heartwarming story and enough guts for six heavyweights. HOFer. But in 1981 he runs into the Camden Buzzsaw.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi-This 5'5 HOF ball of thunder learned to fight in Rahway State Prison. He burst on the scene with a KO of former champion Mike Rossman. His bobbing and weaving, get inside and pulverize the other guy is reminiscent of Joe Frazier. Then in one of boxing's electric moments, Qawi returns to the place of his incarceration to fight an inmate. James Scott is in prison for murder. He is also the #3 ranked light heavyweight in the world and fights only in prison. On national TV and in Rahway, Qawi pounds out a clear decision to earn a title shot. Qawi dominates Saad and stops him in ten rounds. He then stops #4 Jerry Martin, stops Saad in a rematch and stops #4 Eddie Davis. Qawi then loses his title to Michael Spinks in a very good fight in a title unification match. But this is not the end for the great Qawi. He moves to cruiserweight, goes to South Africa IN FREAKING 1985 and takes the cruiser belt from #1 ranked Piet Crous. In a magnificent loss Qawi forces Evander Holyfield to grow up right before our eyes.

Michael Spinks-A gigantic 175 standing almost 6'3 with a 76" reach, a good jab and the dreaded "Spinx Jinx," an overhand right.The Olympic champion's first real step up is against future 168 beltholder Murray Sutherland. The Spinks stops #5 Yaqui Lopez and #5 Marvin Johnson to get a title shot. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad holds the WBA belt he took from Marvin Johnson. Spinks wins a clear decision and then defends four times en route to his unification match with Qawi. Now the undisputed king, Spinks beats the #8, #3, #6 and ends with a total of 10 defenses. He then moves up and in one of boxing's storied accomplishments, defeats heavyweight King Larry Holmes.

Now if THOSE were the only guys over those seven years? it would be a marvelous time for the division. But those four were given very, very tough fights by as grueling a set of contenders as you will ever see. I think it is fair to say that any of Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez, EM Muhammad, James Scott, Richie Kates, John Conteh and Mike Rossman would each just tear through the 175 division today. I think each of those guys are better than Jean Pascal or Chad Dawson or Glenn Johnson for example. And there are FOUR GUYS better than any of the seven of them! And that eleven fought each other over and over again, over 30 times in total. What a great time to be a fan that was.

Good stuff and I would tend to agree for the most part but that era from about the early 1930's to 1950 is pretty good too.

Moore -194-26-8, 141 KO's. 1936-63- 28 years active. Incredible
Conn- 63-11-1, 14 KO's. 1934-48- 11 years active.
Charles- 96-25-1, 58 KO's. 1940-59- 17 years active.
Bivins- 86-25-1, 31 KO's. 1940-55- 15 years active.
Fox- 120-18-6, 81 KO's, 1932-50- 17 years active.
Rosenbloom- 208-37-22, 19 KO's- 22 ND. 1923-39. 15 years active.

[ICB]

Michael Spinks imo has always been underrated as a great boxer. All people remember was the 1st round ko to Tyson. But the guy was an amazing fighter. Lineal LHW champ and Lineal HW champ.

His one punch KO of Marvin Johnson was very impressive, as was his war vs Yaqui Lopez. One of the best Light Heavyweights of all time IMO.

As for the thread who can't root for Matthew Saad Muhammad, pretty much most of his title fights were FOTY candidates.

[marbleheadmaui]

As great as the late 1940's heavyweight scene was with Moore, Charles, Lesnevich, Maxim and Marshall, from about 1977-1984, the light heavyweight division was just on another planet. The division was just loaded with great fighters who fought one another over and over and over again. How great was it? From that division in that stretch of time? Four men then in their primes are in the HOF. Let's go through the major players, I'll try to do this chronologically. All rankings are Ring magazine.

Victor Galindez-The Argentine tough guy has no dominating characteristic, he just knows how to fight. He defeated #2 ranked Len Hutchins for the WBA strap in 1975 and then defended ten times against the # 3, 3, 4,5 and 7 guys. As 1977 rolls around, he is generally considered the man in the division. On his way to the HOF he will beat Pierre Fourie twice, Ritchie Kates twice, Yaqui Lopez twice, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and then split with Mike Rossman and lose to Marvin Johnson (when Johnson breaks his jaw and leaves him draped over the ropes with one of the storied left hands ever thrown) in 1979 and the curtain falls. A genuinely tough man.

Matthew Saad Muhammad-An orphan out of Philadelphia, Miracle Matthew, who is one of the lethal punchers the sport has seen. loses on his way up to Marvin Camel and EM Muhammad. But in 1977 he stops Marvin Johnson, fellow Philadelphian #5 Ritchie Kates and #3 Yaqui Lopez to become a contender. He stops Johnson for the second time to win the WBC belt. He defends twice against European champ and #3 ranked John Conteh, #5 Yaqui Lopez in an impossibly great fight, #7 Lotte Mwale, #7 Murray Sutherland and #4 Jerry Martin. Saad is known for his gigantic heart and miracle comebacks. A good guy, a heartwarming story and enough guts for six heavyweights. HOFer. But in 1981 he runs into the Camden Buzzsaw.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi-This 5'5 HOF ball of thunder learned to fight in Rahway State Prison. He burst on the scene with a KO of former champion Mike Rossman. His bobbing and weaving, get inside and pulverize the other guy is reminiscent of Joe Frazier. Then in one of boxing's electric moments, Qawi returns to the place of his incarceration to fight an inmate. James Scott is in prison for murder. He is also the #3 ranked light heavyweight in the world and fights only in prison. On national TV and in Rahway, Qawi pounds out a clear decision to earn a title shot. Qawi dominates Saad and stops him in ten rounds. He then stops #4 Jerry Martin, stops Saad in a rematch and stops #4 Eddie Davis. Qawi then loses his title to Michael Spinks in a very good fight in a title unification match. But this is not the end for the great Qawi. He moves to cruiserweight, goes to South Africa IN FREAKING 1985 and takes the cruiser belt from #1 ranked Piet Crous. In a magnificent loss Qawi forces Evander Holyfield to grow up right before our eyes.

Michael Spinks-A gigantic 175 standing almost 6'3 with a 76" reach, a good jab and the dreaded "Spinx Jinx," an overhand right.The Olympic champion's first real step up is against future 168 beltholder Murray Sutherland. The Spinks stops #5 Yaqui Lopez and #5 Marvin Johnson to get a title shot. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad holds the WBA belt he took from Marvin Johnson. Spinks wins a clear decision and then defends four times en route to his unification match with Qawi. Now the undisputed king, Spinks beats the #8, #3, #6 and ends with a total of 10 defenses. He then moves up and in one of boxing's storied accomplishments, defeats heavyweight King Larry Holmes.

Now if THOSE were the only guys over those seven years? it would be a marvelous time for the division. But those four were given very, very tough fights by as grueling a set of contenders as you will ever see. I think it is fair to say that any of Marvin Johnson, Yaqui Lopez, EM Muhammad, James Scott, Richie Kates, John Conteh and Mike Rossman would each just tear through the 175 division today. I think each of those guys are better than Jean Pascal or Chad Dawson or Glenn Johnson for example. And there are FOUR GUYS better than any of the seven of them! And that eleven fought each other over and over again, over 30 times in total. What a great time to be a fan that was.

Good stuff and I would tend to agree for the most part but that era from about the early 1930's to 1950 is pretty good too.

Moore -194-26-8, 141 KO's. 1936-63- 28 years active. Incredible
Conn- 63-11-1, 14 KO's. 1934-48- 11 years active.
Charles- 96-25-1, 58 KO's. 1940-59- 17 years active.
Bivins- 86-25-1, 31 KO's. 1940-55- 15 years active.
Fox- 120-18-6, 81 KO's, 1932-50- 17 years active.
Rosenbloom- 208-37-22, 19 KO's- 22 ND. 1923-39. 15 years active.

Can't disagree. I was trying to find a 6-7 year period to compete and I didn't think 1933-1940 say or 1941-1948 was quite as good. Put them together? Holy schnikes! All the guys you neamed plus John Henry Lewis, Lloyd Marshall, Eddie Booker and Freddie Mills. THAT is one whale of a period!

[marbleheadmaui]

Michael Spinks imo has always been underrated as a great boxer. All people remember was the 1st round ko to Tyson. But the guy was an amazing fighter. Lineal LHW champ and Lineal HW champ.

He really was special wasn't he? He was so big and he seemd awkward yet he was fundamentally very sound. To be the top dog from that period? A remarkable feat.

[marbleheadmaui]

Michael Spinks imo has always been underrated as a great boxer. All people remember was the 1st round ko to Tyson. But the guy was an amazing fighter. Lineal LHW champ and Lineal HW champ.

His one punch KO of Marvin Johnson was very impressive, as was his war vs Yaqui Lopez. One of the best Light Heavyweights of all time IMO.

As for the thread who can't root for Matthew Saad Muhammad, pretty much most of his title fights were FOTY candidates.

That left hook he finished Johnson with was so hard it rattled Johnson's ancestors! (Hat tip M. Ali)

[IamInuit]

Michael Spinks imo has always been underrated as a great boxer. All people remember was the 1st round ko to Tyson. But the guy was an amazing fighter. Lineal LHW champ and Lineal HW champ.

So true. Could fight going forward or backward, inside or outside. A complete pugilist.