Prime Pac Man vs. Prime Aaron Pryor. Who Wins?

[holmcall]

Records:

Their respective records speak for themselves. One is undefeated and the other has not tasted defeat since early 2005 when he lost to Erik Morales (who he later stopped twice). Pacquiao is 31 with a record of 48-3-2 and has not had a tough fight since early 2008 when he beat Juan Manuel Marquez by SD. Pryor’s record is 34-0 with all but 3 wins coming by way of KO. In fact, after his UD win over Johnny Summerhayes in 1977, Pryor won 26 fights in a row by knockout— one of the longest knockout streaks in boxing history.

Styles:

Their styles are strikingly similar. In fact, The Hawk’s style might have been the blueprint for Freddie Roach in training Pacquiao. They both attack from different and odd angles in a whirlwind type of approach and carry power in all of their punches. Manny has developed the full arsenal while The Hawk honed his skills in a legendary amateur career. Pryor throws better uppercuts and straight leads while Manny uses hooks more effectively. Some say Pryor method of attack is undisciplined. I say it is controlled mayhem. Both have uncommon hand and foot speed.

Pryor also is a killer closer and dispenses with tapping gloves with his opponent before each round. Once he had his man hurt, he closes the show quickly and savagely. Pac Man has shown a respect for his beaten opponents that is somewhat out of character with the business of boxing. However, as someone recently pointed out to me, aggression unleashes the Pac-Monster; retreat brings out the Congressman. Pryor is the epitome of aggression.

I do give Manny the edge on defense because Aaron always holds his head and chin too high, but both are such offensive machines, defense hardly seems a factor in this match-up.

Chins:

Both have been down, but both have great chins. However, I give the edge here to Pryor because anyone who can handle straight and flush shots from Alexis "El Flaco Explosivo" Arguello has to have a granite chin. Sure The Hawk was decked a lot, but that was due more to being off balance than to having chin issues. And the balance issue was due to his wild style. If Juan Manuel Marquez could give Pac Man hell for 22 out of 24 rounds, Pryor can introduce him to Dante’s fifth ring.

Ring IQ:

Both know the ring as if they were born in it. Both have high ring IQ’s.

Level of opposition:

The distinct edge goes to Pac Man (notwithstanding shrew matchmaking) as he continues to beat big names at an astounding pace. Opponents like Hatton, Marquez (twice), Morales (thrice), Barrera (twice), De La Hoya, Diaz, Larios, Solis, Fahsan 3K Battery, Julio, Ledwaba, and Sasakul dot his resume. However, Pryor beat many tough men in his own right including the great Arguello (twice), Gary Hinton, Sang-Hyun Kim, Akio Kameda, Dujuan Johnson, Antonio Cervantes, and Alfonso Frazer.

Corners:

Panama Lewis vs. Freddie Roach. Each is top notch. Despite the later and unforgivable Resto-Collins scandal, Lewis has always been considered one of the best trainers of his time. Each has great symbiosis with his fighter.

Dimensions:

Pryor is 5’6 1/2." Manny is 5’5 1/2." One is 31; the other is 32. Pryor usually tips the scales at 140 pounds and is a natural junior welterweight. Manny will be coming off his fight with Ricky Hatton and also will be a fit and ready 140. While he has moved up to 140 from as low as 106 back in 1995, he amazingly has carried his power with him.

Who wins??

[marbleheadmaui]

I question one assertion you made. I don't think Manny has faced anyone as good as Arguello was (even all the way up at 140).

My guess is Manny drops the Hawk early, a lot of people did. But the Hawk was the athletic equal of Manny, was a more active puncher and, with the exception of the lantern in a storm chin position was technically far more consistent than Manny.

The Hawk was one of the most fearsome, savage, gifted, maniacal fighters I have ever seen. He fought a whole bunch of southpaws in Kameda and Sang-Hyun Kim and Gary Hinton. But the real thing he has that Manny doesn't is another way to win. Pryor was an exceptional boxer. Manny is a really erratic one.

I think he's too much for Manny (and every other 140 I've ever thought about).

TKO 7-8-9, something like that is my guess.

[JazMerkin]

I've answered this before & caught heat for it, so if I find my post in a very similar thread from about 3 months ago I'll post it in. But as it's late over here, I'll just summarize with this. I think Pacquiao stops him in 5-6. I'm of the view that Aaron Pryor is one of the most exciting fighters of all time, but also one of the most overrated. Credit for the Arguello wins, but Pacquiao is a little better imo & also has for my money a much better chin. Great fight while it lasts, but Pacquiao stops him after a short war. Okay I'll prepare to get flayed

[marbleheadmaui]

I've answered this before & caught heat for it, so if I find my post in a very similar thread from about 3 months ago I'll post it in. But as it's late over here, I'll just summarize with this. I think Pacquiao stops him in 5-6. I'm of the view that Aaron Pryor is one of the most exciting fighters of all time, but also one of the most overrated. Credit for the Arguello wins, but Pacquiao is a little better imo & also has for my money a much better chin. Great fight while it lasts, but Pacquiao stops him after a short war. Okay I'll prepare to get flayed

Why flayed? We're all guessing here. You're just guessing wrong

I was wondering about the chin thing. Do you think Manny has been hit clean by a bigger puncher than Alexis Arguello? Not p4p a bigger puncher, just a bigger puncher. I guess what I'm asking is who do you think punched harder, a 140 pound Arguello or a 147 pound Cotto?

[JazMerkin]

I've answered this before & caught heat for it, so if I find my post in a very similar thread from about 3 months ago I'll post it in. But as it's late over here, I'll just summarize with this. I think Pacquiao stops him in 5-6. I'm of the view that Aaron Pryor is one of the most exciting fighters of all time, but also one of the most overrated. Credit for the Arguello wins, but Pacquiao is a little better imo & also has for my money a much better chin. Great fight while it lasts, but Pacquiao stops him after a short war. Okay I'll prepare to get flayed

Why flayed? We're all guessing here. You're just guessing wrong

I was wondering about the chin thing. Do you think Manny has been hit clean by a bigger puncher than Alexis Arguello? Not p4p a bigger puncher, just a bigger puncher. I guess what I'm asking is who do you think punched harder, a 140 pound Arguello or a 147 pound Cotto?

You don't understand Saddo's do you? You're supposed to mercilessly overreact & threaten to kill my parents when I disagree with you

I'd definitely argue Mosley hit harder than Arguello, but whether he did 10 days ago I don't know because he just seemed concerned with keeping Manny away. I think that a 150 lb Margarito certainly hit harder than Arguello just because of size, maybe not Cotto. I think Arguello's power was probably not quite as brutal at 140 as 130/135, not that I'd really know. I also think that Pryor 'struggled' with southpaws who just weren't on Pacquiao's level in Kameda & Hinton, so how he would do against one of the probably top 5 lefties there's been is for me not that tough a call.

[ElTerribleMorales]

I've answered this before & caught heat for it, so if I find my post in a very similar thread from about 3 months ago I'll post it in. But as it's late over here, I'll just summarize with this. I think Pacquiao stops him in 5-6. I'm of the view that Aaron Pryor is one of the most exciting fighters of all time, but also one of the most overrated. Credit for the Arguello wins, but Pacquiao is a little better imo & also has for my money a much better chin. Great fight while it lasts, but Pacquiao stops him after a short war. Okay I'll prepare to get flayed

Why flayed? We're all guessing here. You're just guessing wrong

I was wondering about the chin thing. Do you think Manny has been hit clean by a bigger puncher than Alexis Arguello? Not p4p a bigger puncher, just a bigger puncher. I guess what I'm asking is who do you think punched harder, a 140 pound Arguello or a 147 pound Cotto?

You don't understand Saddo's do you? You're supposed to mercilessly overreact & threaten to kill my parents when I disagree with you

I'd definitely argue Mosley hit harder than Arguello, but whether he did 10 days ago I don't know because he just seemed concerned with keeping Manny away. I think that a 150 lb Margarito certainly hit harder than Arguello just because of size, maybe not Cotto. I think Arguello's power was probably not quite as brutal at 140 as 130/135, not that I'd really know. I also think that Pryor 'struggled' with southpaws who just weren't on Pacquiao's level in Kameda & Hinton, so how he would do against one of the probably top 5 lefties there's been is for me not that tough a call.

damn straight, and on that note, I HOPE YOU CHOKE ON SOME SPOTTED DICK YOU NUTHUGGER!!! balance has been restored

[marbleheadmaui]

I've answered this before & caught heat for it, so if I find my post in a very similar thread from about 3 months ago I'll post it in. But as it's late over here, I'll just summarize with this. I think Pacquiao stops him in 5-6. I'm of the view that Aaron Pryor is one of the most exciting fighters of all time, but also one of the most overrated. Credit for the Arguello wins, but Pacquiao is a little better imo & also has for my money a much better chin. Great fight while it lasts, but Pacquiao stops him after a short war. Okay I'll prepare to get flayed

Why flayed? We're all guessing here. You're just guessing wrong

I was wondering about the chin thing. Do you think Manny has been hit clean by a bigger puncher than Alexis Arguello? Not p4p a bigger puncher, just a bigger puncher. I guess what I'm asking is who do you think punched harder, a 140 pound Arguello or a 147 pound Cotto?

You don't understand Saddo's do you? You're supposed to mercilessly overreact & threaten to kill my parents when I disagree with you

I'd definitely argue Mosley hit harder than Arguello, but whether he did 10 days ago I don't know because he just seemed concerned with keeping Manny away. I think that a 150 lb Margarito certainly hit harder than Arguello just because of size, maybe not Cotto. I think Arguello's power was probably not quite as brutal at 140 as 130/135, not that I'd really know. I also think that Pryor 'struggled' with southpaws who just weren't on Pacquiao's level in Kameda & Hinton, so how he would do against one of the probably top 5 lefties there's been is for me not that tough a call.

I've got your folks tied up out back by the bear pit.
The reason I picked Cotto was because he landed a couple of clean, hard shots on Manny and I didn't recall Margarito as having done so...but he was marked up so...

I think Arguello probably didn't hit as hard p4p as he did at 130, but in absolute terms wouldn't he have had to? He was noticeably bigger and didn't seem to be carrying any extra weight IIRC. I mean he one punched poor Kevin Rooney and even after he retired and came back he nearly killed Billy Costello. But I sure can't prove he hit harder than a 147 Cotto or a 150 Margarito.

The Hinton fight was in 1985. By then the Hawk was in full cocaine mode and not the same guy as he was in 1980-81. My memory of the Kameda fight is except for the flash knockdown Pryor won every round until he finished him.

[Spicoli]

With all due respect I almost dont care. Not because its not a great what if scenario but that it yet again involves....Manny .

Alright I'll quit bitchin (bet that gets deleted) and say Pac via tko. Too moblie and straight a hitter. Pryor was a bull but verrrryyyyy hittable and got loopy as it went. Though his boxing was abit underrated, we tend to think of the full throttle Hawk. I just see Manny weathering it early and eventually walking Pryor into some mean lefts and moving off. I gave Manny shit for easing off on Mosley but that took maturity and when pushed albeit on crap'olla 'kd' call from ref he stepped it right back up.

[mafiajoey]

DEPENDS.....

Is Pac going to take the test?

And will Pryor be able to use the Panama Lewis special juice in between rounds?


(:

[Taeth]

I question one assertion you made. I don't think Manny has faced anyone as good as Arguello was (even all the way up at 140).

My guess is Manny drops the Hawk early, a lot of people did. But the Hawk was the athletic equal of Manny, was a more active puncher and, with the exception of the lantern in a storm chin position was technically far more consistent than Manny.

The Hawk was one of the most fearsome, savage, gifted, maniacal fighters I have ever seen. He fought a whole bunch of southpaws in Kameda and Sang-Hyun Kim and Gary Hinton. But the real thing he has that Manny doesn't is another way to win. Pryor was an exceptional boxer. Manny is a really erratic one.

I think he's too much for Manny (and every other 140 I've ever thought about).

TKO 7-8-9, something like that is my guess.

Are you kidding me? He hasn't foughten anyone as good as Arguello? This was a Arguello at a weight above his prime. Arguello isn't better than Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Mosley, or Oscar though he was seemingly weightdrained. ALl of them won legitimate titles in multiple weight classes.

Also Pryor was Manny physical equal how? He wasn't as fast as Pacquiao and he didn't hit anywhere near as hard.

As for them being put down, Manny has only legitimately gone down from body shots early in his career. He has never been dropped by a head shot, his chin is vastly superior to Pryor's.

Manny fought big punchers in Mosley, Cotto, and De La Hoya at a high weight and handled all of their punches when landed. He also took more punches from Margarito than against anyone else and Margarito was way bigger than him, and the only punches that hurt Pacquiao were body shots, but he didn't truly prepare for that fight. It was a great version of him.

You talk about Manny being errative, but so Pryor. Manny is an erratic fighter, but he's actually pretty good as a pure boxer, watch Pacquiao-Barrera II, Pacquiao-Cotto (first two rounds in particular). Then watch his last fight where he stayed right in front of Mosley and got hit less than Mayweather did over the whole fight. I am not saying he is a purist in a technical sense, but he can handle his own purely boxing against the best of them except maybe Mayweather.

I'm sorry but Manny is way too much for Pryor. THere is just nobody like him in the history of the sport.

[mafiajoey]

I question one assertion you made. I don't think Manny has faced anyone as good as Arguello was (even all the way up at 140).

My guess is Manny drops the Hawk early, a lot of people did. But the Hawk was the athletic equal of Manny, was a more active puncher and, with the exception of the lantern in a storm chin position was technically far more consistent than Manny.

The Hawk was one of the most fearsome, savage, gifted, maniacal fighters I have ever seen. He fought a whole bunch of southpaws in Kameda and Sang-Hyun Kim and Gary Hinton. But the real thing he has that Manny doesn't is another way to win. Pryor was an exceptional boxer. Manny is a really erratic one.

I think he's too much for Manny (and every other 140 I've ever thought about).

TKO 7-8-9, something like that is my guess.

Are you kidding me? He hasn't foughten anyone as good as Arguello? This was a Arguello at a weight above his prime. Arguello isn't better than Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Mosley, or Oscar though he was seemingly weightdrained. ALl of them won legitimate titles in multiple weight classes.

Also Pryor was Manny physical equal how? He wasn't as fast as Pacquiao and he didn't hit anywhere near as hard.

As for them being put down, Manny has only legitimately gone down from body shots early in his career. He has never been dropped by a head shot, his chin is vastly superior to Pryor's.

Manny fought big punchers in Mosley, Cotto, and De La Hoya at a high weight and handled all of their punches when landed. He also took more punches from Margarito than against anyone else and Margarito was way bigger than him, and the only punches that hurt Pacquiao were body shots, but he didn't truly prepare for that fight. It was a great version of him.

You talk about Manny being errative, but so Pryor. Manny is an erratic fighter, but he's actually pretty good as a pure boxer, watch Pacquiao-Barrera II, Pacquiao-Cotto (first two rounds in particular). Then watch his last fight where he stayed right in front of Mosley and got hit less than Mayweather did over the whole fight. I am not saying he is a purist in a technical sense, but he can handle his own purely boxing against the best of them except maybe Mayweather.

I'm sorry but Manny is way too much for Pryor. THere is just nobody like him in the history of the sport.

What is it were like this.....


Alex Ariza Special Shake Version Of Pac VS Panama Lewis Special Water Bottle Version Of Pryor.......? LOL

[marbleheadmaui]

I question one assertion you made. I don't think Manny has faced anyone as good as Arguello was (even all the way up at 140).

My guess is Manny drops the Hawk early, a lot of people did. But the Hawk was the athletic equal of Manny, was a more active puncher and, with the exception of the lantern in a storm chin position was technically far more consistent than Manny.

The Hawk was one of the most fearsome, savage, gifted, maniacal fighters I have ever seen. He fought a whole bunch of southpaws in Kameda and Sang-Hyun Kim and Gary Hinton. But the real thing he has that Manny doesn't is another way to win. Pryor was an exceptional boxer. Manny is a really erratic one.

I think he's too much for Manny (and every other 140 I've ever thought about).

TKO 7-8-9, something like that is my guess.

Are you kidding me? He hasn't foughten anyone as good as Arguello? This was a Arguello at a weight above his prime. Arguello isn't better than Barrera, Marquez, Morales, Mosley, or Oscar though he was seemingly weightdrained. ALl of them won legitimate titles in multiple weight classes.

Also Pryor was Manny physical equal how? He wasn't as fast as Pacquiao and he didn't hit anywhere near as hard.

As for them being put down, Manny has only legitimately gone down from body shots early in his career. He has never been dropped by a head shot, his chin is vastly superior to Pryor's.

Manny fought big punchers in Mosley, Cotto, and De La Hoya at a high weight and handled all of their punches when landed. He also took more punches from Margarito than against anyone else and Margarito was way bigger than him, and the only punches that hurt Pacquiao were body shots, but he didn't truly prepare for that fight. It was a great version of him.

You talk about Manny being errative, but so Pryor. Manny is an erratic fighter, but he's actually pretty good as a pure boxer, watch Pacquiao-Barrera II, Pacquiao-Cotto (first two rounds in particular). Then watch his last fight where he stayed right in front of Mosley and got hit less than Mayweather did over the whole fight. I am not saying he is a purist in a technical sense, but he can handle his own purely boxing against the best of them except maybe Mayweather.

I'm sorry but Manny is way too much for Pryor. THere is just nobody like him in the history of the sport.

Arguello at 140 was certainly comparable to Morales or MAB at 130 don't you think? He was certainly better than Oscar or Shane when Manny fought them. Neither of Oscar or Shane ever really hit Manny. Arguello hit Pryor over and over and over again, right on the money and Pryor kept coming.

The idea that ANY 140 EVER is WAY too much for the Hawk is as much an overstatement as the notion that Manny is unique in history.

[generalbulldog]

I pick Pac just because he has the better drugs. (Oh no I didn't!)

[marbleheadmaui]

I pick Pac just because he has the better drugs. (Oh no I didn't!)

LOL. I'm Arguello's biggest fan but I never thought much of the Pryor drug story in terms of impact on their first fight. Why? Well because nobody alleges Pryor drank from that bottle until after round 12. And by then my boy Alexis was beaten. He walked very slowly and very flatfooted back to his corner. But even if that weren't true, Pryor would have needed to drink something that metabilized in about 75 seconds to explain an impact. I don't think such a chemical exists (happy to be proven wrong on that).

Now that's not to say Scumbag Lewis didn't TRY to cheat! Just that my guess is if he did it didn't have an impact.

[gest12645]

Pacman wins , no doubt for me. Other than Arguello, Pryor never faced anyone very good. Decent fighters but not great.