Fighting outside, inside and mid range and holding

[Gocougars3]

A fighter I work with a smaller light heavyweight (6 foot tall but good reach, southpaw); hits hard. He is a natural "in fighter". He moves very well on the outside and is very good a catching and countering inside. The worst part of his game is moving from outside to mid-range (in the pocket but at the end of his punches). He kind of explodes on you, gets inside and then (hopefully) bumps back so he can let his power shots go. Creeping in is just not something he seems to be able to master. We worked on it last fight and he moved great but lost his identity as a fighter. So he can go from outside to close in and from close in to mid range or back outside but is lacking at going from out of range to mid range.

Here are my questions. Does anyone come to mind that fought an outside, inside style but didn't transition well from outside to mid range? Does this have to be overcome to become world class ?(he has a chance to get there). Once he gets inside he needs to avoid getting held, too much work to get there to just get held and have the ref break you up.

[Andre]

So he is over committing and gets read easily? Once he is over committed he gets timed backing out trying to find his range?

[Gocougars3]

So he is over committing and gets read easily? Once he is over committed he gets timed backing out trying to find his range?

No, he doesn't get read well when he explodes and he never gets hit backing out. We are concerned that perimeter sticking and moving in combination with tough inside fighting might not be enough for the top guys. We talked about it today again. I think the main problem is that he isn't comfortable getting off first at mid range. Maybe a good compromise is that he tries to draw fire and counter at mid range (he is very solid at countering).

[Andre]

So he is over committing and gets read easily? Once he is over committed he gets timed backing out trying to find his range?

No, he doesn't get read well when he explodes and he never gets hit backing out. We are concerned that perimeter sticking and moving in combination with tough inside fighting might not be enough for the top guys. We talked about it today again. I think the main problem is that he isn't comfortable getting off first at mid range. Maybe a good compromise is that he tries to draw fire and counter at mid range (he is very solid at countering).

Yeah sounds good for him.

Could get him to really get to know distances and their limits by teaching him interruption of the opponents movements. EG: If his glove touched their elbow or either side and inch or two would that be at his optimum range? Cause if he deals with their arms just outside of the distance he prefers to throw from, then he can interrupt their arm movement, adjust and fire.

[Andre]

Looking forwards to Grey and Scraps answers on this one. Probably adjusting body lean/angle .

[Gocougars3]

Looking forwards to Grey and Scraps answers on this one. Probably adjusting body lean/angle .

Yeah, the more input the better. I have been impressed by the quality of the advice in this forum.

I think your comments are on target. I have watched fight progressions (consecutively) of Frazier, Ali, Johnny Tapia, Floyd Patterson, Michael Carbajal (I know it's a weird mix) but one thing I always notice is how much better fighters learn to control their spacing over the course of their careers (particularly over their first 12-15 fights). My guy is 4(3)-0 as a pro. He has limited amateurs but I think amateur and pro spacing is quite different.

[Gocougars3]

One other thing, he is a "weight back" fighter but you can't talk me out of that style.

[Scrap]

So is this guy got the expieriance on you . how long you been Boxing.

[Scrap]

Are you Orthadox or Southpaw.

[Gocougars3]

Are you Orthadox or Southpaw.

I don't train him, I manage him. He has had some good training during the past 2 years (including a guy that trained a prominent southpaw); before that he trained hard but his trainers came and went. He was not a big amateur so he is playing catch up.

[Scrap]

Now this is something that works, get a fitball. Pump it halffull then sit on it. Taking the feet of the floor shadow Box, all little movements. At 1st He will fall off, keep doing it, it will get him use to Balanced movement, plus it does wonders for the core and speed of movement, thats a given

[greynotsoold]

I don't think that I am following...In my mind, you are either in or out of punching range, and it is best not to hang around in range. If my understanding is correct, then he is adept at staying out of range, then moving in quickly, punching well, and getting out.That is exactly what you are supposed to do. Hanging around in between is just asking to get pot-shotted.
Now, is he good at closing to the correct distance to punch effectively? Or does he get too close and smother himself? Does he punch from too far away?

[Gocougars3]

I don't think that I am following...In my mind, you are either in or out of punching range, and it is best not to hang around in range. If my understanding is correct, then he is adept at staying out of range, then moving in quickly, punching well, and getting out.That is exactly what you are supposed to do. Hanging around in between is just asking to get pot-shotted.
Now, is he good at closing to the correct distance to punch effectively? Or does he get too close and smother himself? Does he punch from too far away?

You are following and your phrasing helped me think about it a little differently. I think he is not putting his punches together when he is mid range so he is often just getting off a shot or 2 at that distance and and then he gets out pretty quickly. I think he ultimately wants to work from close range, which is where is most comfortable. Some times he is so anxious to get close he does smother himself. He punches his way in, kind of over runs his combinations. He expends a lot of energy in clinches and I think he tends to be a little to easy to grab. He constantly complains when guys hold him in sparring (which everyone of course does).

[WayneFlint]

Its hard to really comment without a vid of some sparring so we can see what your refering too, from what i understand it sounds like it could just be a lack of confidence in mid range could be the problem, or maybe hes had bad experiences with the positions hes being caught in there before and this is causing hesitations.
fear of the unknown, knowledge and ring experience will nurture that, so many different factors might be involved, footwork.. it could be poor and may be tieing him up limiting his options at times where your noticing due to the way hes using his feet to evade shots close and long range could be leaving him exposed and/or unable to throw shots at times midrange, it could be so many things.

To be fair what i figure by your descriptions it sounds like the guy is doing ok as he is, hes always learning while hes active and im not sure about your experience in boxing yourself so let me say its not as easy as it looks, to stay elusive long, mid and close range while hammering in tidy combo's in a controlled manner as not to compromise balance and mobility at any point in the sequence is quite an art, maybe your expecting too much from him too early? if he didnt have a big amature career? then again maybe the sparring is of quality that you feel he should be dominating at this stage and your seeing he isnt? we dont know, like i said videos will help us help him.

[greynotsoold]

I don't think that I am following...In my mind, you are either in or out of punching range, and it is best not to hang around in range. If my understanding is correct, then he is adept at staying out of range, then moving in quickly, punching well, and getting out.That is exactly what you are supposed to do. Hanging around in between is just asking to get pot-shotted.
Now, is he good at closing to the correct distance to punch effectively? Or does he get too close and smother himself? Does he punch from too far away?

You are following and your phrasing helped me think about it a little differently. I think he is not putting his punches together when he is mid range so he is often just getting off a shot or 2 at that distance and and then he gets out pretty quickly. I think he ultimately wants to work from close range, which is where is most comfortable. Some times he is so anxious to get close he does smother himself. He punches his way in, kind of over runs his combinations. He expends a lot of energy in clinches and I think he tends to be a little to easy to grab. He constantly complains when guys hold him in sparring (which everyone of course does).

It sounds like it may just be a matter of experience, as far as knowing range/distance. Also, the things he does to get inside...I think you have to know what they're worth. You slide in behind the jab, or slip a punch to get inside, it might only lead to one or two punches, then it is time to get out. Not to stand in hoping for more, getting tied up and wasting energy in clinches. Just to make the initial move, be sure of the initial counter, throw the punch behind it, change the angle and start again.
At his stage- 4 fights?- I would be looking to make sure that he is sharp at those initial slip and counters (maybe a couple punches) then getting out. Then build on it, throwing more punches when it is natural to him to land that first one, then change the angle, then look for more. Tell those guys to keep holding him in sparring. He'll learn that there are ways of dealing with that- first and foremost being to land something on the way in and then move and make him turn.
Last, watch him train, hitting the heavy bag and the mitts. If he is falling in a lot and smothering himself sparring, he's doing it there too. That is something that is easy to correct in the ring with the mitts, you just have to break those moves down and really watch his feet.