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Thread: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

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    Default Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    ive figured out my style and im a pocket fighter, atleast thats how i feel comfortable fighting and thats how i get my best results. anyone have any info on this? or tips? or tapes or videos i could find on how to pocket fight?

    i mean vidoes on technique, head movement in the pocket, pocket defense, anything, even fights or specific fighters i could watch who do this well, etc..

    very hard to find info on it. ive been watching a lot of mayweather and winky wright trying to pick up on what they do.. but its hard to try to simulate it while shadowboxing or on the bag, especially when a lot of it is checking the jab and countering over it which right now i SUCK at

    the hardest part is learning the defense, (like i said parrying the jab and countering it with a jab) especially when a lot of the trainers at my gym are busy training fighters bc theres a fight at my gym in a couple weeks. and by defense i mean learning what to look for in that mid range and how to counter it

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    Its a huge study in itself.

    Some rarer things are disruption of their mid range shots and firing straight from them as you move in.

    Move in with control of their lead arm.

    Follow their misses in and choke them out.

    Checking with your elbows so that you maintain range and can fire from there.

    Taking a hit and bending in the wind so that your return shot comes around theirs or under their shot and catches them blind.

    Switching out of trouble and throwing one back down the same line, making them look for you , so they end up turning into a shot.

    Using your center line to your advantage and his disadvantage: (if you are square you want only one of his arms a threat to you or you lose the two handed advantage and are real open).
    Hidden Content " border="0" />

    I can explain it.
    But I cant understand it for you.

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    Quote Originally Posted by Andre View Post
    Its a huge study in itself.

    Some rarer things are disruption of their mid range shots and firing straight from them as you move in.

    Move in with control of their lead arm.

    Follow their misses in and choke them out.

    Checking with your elbows so that you maintain range and can fire from there.

    Taking a hit and bending in the wind so that your return shot comes around theirs or under their shot and catches them blind.

    Switching out of trouble and throwing one back down the same line, making them look for you , so they end up turning into a shot.

    Using your center line to your advantage and his disadvantage: (if you are square you want only one of his arms a threat to you or you lose the two handed advantage and are real open).
    alright some q's if you could please answer them, thanks for the help by the way:

    1. what did you mean by check with your elbows to maintain range? ive never heard of that

    2. by switching out of trouble im guessing you mean if i (orthodox) jump in for a right hook and get caught i southpaw jab out, then he doesnt know if next time ill back out southpaw or ortho and catch him with shots, right?

    3. so by always being to the left or right of his center line, ill only be facing one arm most of the time, so thats how i can control the lead arm and jump in i presume..

    4. to constantly be out of his center line, ill have to change angles alot, so i should be practicing that on the heavy bag too correct?

    5. when i get in on a guy, do i hit him with shots and move out or do i stay in his range still?


    thanks again for the help, sorry if some of these questions are stupid but i want to make sure what im thinking is correct and im training correct

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    Quote Originally Posted by lwhit26 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre View Post
    Its a huge study in itself.

    Some rarer things are disruption of their mid range shots and firing straight from them as you move in.

    Move in with control of their lead arm.

    Follow their misses in and choke them out.

    Checking with your elbows so that you maintain range and can fire from there.

    Taking a hit and bending in the wind so that your return shot comes around theirs or under their shot and catches them blind.

    Switching out of trouble and throwing one back down the same line, making them look for you , so they end up turning into a shot.

    Using your center line to your advantage and his disadvantage: (if you are square you want only one of his arms a threat to you or you lose the two handed advantage and are real open).
    alright some q's if you could please answer them, thanks for the help by the way:

    1. what did you mean by check with your elbows to maintain range? ive never heard of that

    Well if the action is in a phone box type of fight and you dont want to move because you are doing better. You can deal with his forearms with your elbows; block his shots with them and you are still at the same range and can fire the same hand off the same side,especially blocking low shots.

    2. by switching out of trouble im guessing you mean if i (orthodox) jump in for a right hook and get caught i southpaw jab out, then he doesnt know if next time ill back out southpaw or ortho and catch him with shots, right?
    Yes,make them rethink position so you catch them.

    Sometimes you can pull your lead foot back behind your rear foot but as he follows your movement you throw your rear arm straight through the path you just left : so you catch him turning into your shot; (Dont switch straight back though its stupid) If you are going to do it at all ; time it off one of his moves so you are going out to one of his flanks so he has to turn to find you. Theres a few senarios but (lets do against a south):IF you've slipped right a jab to the outside for instance,your legs are probably nearly square now, to his position, if you then pulled your rear right foot back and throw a left shot straight at him while you did it, he will turn to face it as looks for you over his right shoulder.

    3. so by always being to the left or right of his center line, ill only be facing one arm most of the time, so thats how i can control the lead arm and jump in i presume..

    You cant always be there;things move to fast,but to try to get there off one of his moves i think is good for those reasons,also you stay away from his rear hand you are cutting down his options and increasing yours.

    4. to constantly be out of his center line, ill have to change angles alot, so i should be practicing that on the heavy bag too correct?

    Id be doing it shadow boxing then later slowly bring ideas into sparring.
    your footwork and lining up shots on the bag will automatically come if you are grounded well in your shots already.

    5. when i get in on a guy, do i hit him with shots and move out or do i stay in his range still?

    Depends on the fight and his style. He may be great at countering ,maybe stronger than you, harder chin,more adapt at in fighting so he can catch you in there.
    Under those situations I'd be thinking in and out, but make him adjust to where you want to go and be there waiting for him as he adjusts to you.

    If he is taking shots he is off balance and reacting ,you are in control.You can follow him at that range and maintain it and keep him under pressure.

    Practice in you head and do it alone visualize, take it to sparring slowly introduce the odd thing but dont do stuff just willy nilly for no reason,everything has it time, a good fighter knows when you can and cant do things.


    thanks again for the help, sorry if some of these questions are stupid but i want to make sure what im thinking is correct and im training correct
    Somethings only work sometimes, maintaining distance and control as well as your balance is a tough job. Easier though if they are off balance and wondering about stuff.

    Their elbow points control their balance when you are both in close and its a tussle match between all arms in there, use that and good footwork and you will gain more control than he will of you. Also you can feel their intention through their elbow points as they move around and you can interrupt their shots instantly.

    Try this, next time you know someone is going to try to grab you and hold on in close. push his elbow slightly into his own center line further as he leans in and watch him react,you should be able to get an upper cut in because that arm you pushed in will automatically force out against you, so you slip it with your glove as you adjust your stance and go up the hole between his arms.
    Hidden Content " border="0" />

    I can explain it.
    But I cant understand it for you.

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    In my estimation, fighting in close, in boxing, has most all to do with the angle of your body. If you square up, or lean forward, you'll eat uppercuts all day. Watch the 2nd moorer/holyfield fight. You need to get your left shoulder way in front, and well into the other guy's chest.(my references will be to orthodox fighters, as, if you are a southpaw you should maintain distance to maximize your angles. Unless all involved are southpaws, in, which case, God help us all.) This makes you are difficult target to hit; takes his right hand out of the picture, and makes you hard to hit with uppercuts. Then you keep your right elbow in to protect your ribs and the right glove up to block hooks. Watch Toney in general, against delgado in specific.
    Buddy McGirt against Simon Brown is a good guy to watch, too. Especially the way he goes from outside to inside real quick, tucks in and works, or gets back out. Controlling the distance is so crucial, and there is so much I could show you that I can't explain, but McGirt in general (especially at 147)is good to watch.
    Andre makes good points about the elbows. You would be amazed at how easy it is to turn a guy inside, just your right hand on his left elbow, push him to your left. And watch Chavez (Sr), and the way he uses his elbows and forearms inside to bump a guy off, to create space, and how he parries punches, close in, by bumping the other guy's elbows. The Rosario fight is good for this, as is his fight with Azabache Martinez, or Ruben Castillo.
    To be able to do any of these things, you need to master some skills: you don't just get in the ring and decide to fight this way. First, your defense. Watch Chavez, Toney, McGirt, Armstrong. All effective in-fighters (and there are so, so many)yet very different. And I think that that is the foundation of it all: to be able to fight, in close, in range, under constant fire, with confidence and the ability to stay there. That means not getting hit and minimizing the impact when you do. (Think on this and we'll talk about rolling with and/or smothering punches.) Second, you have to be able to hit short and hard. That is all technique, and there are exercises to develope that.
    Finally, there is so so much more. Like slapping his left glove out of the way with your right gto land a hook, or hitting his right glove with a left uppercut so that you can land a right. Watch ray Leonard ko Davey Green and what he does to clear the way for that left hook.

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    Quote Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
    In my estimation, fighting in close, in boxing, has most all to do with the angle of your body. If you square up, or lean forward, you'll eat uppercuts all day. Watch the 2nd moorer/holyfield fight. You need to get your left shoulder way in front, and well into the other guy's chest.(my references will be to orthodox fighters, as, if you are a southpaw you should maintain distance to maximize your angles. Unless all involved are southpaws, in, which case, God help us all.) This makes you are difficult target to hit; takes his right hand out of the picture, and makes you hard to hit with uppercuts. Then you keep your right elbow in to protect your ribs and the right glove up to block hooks. Watch Toney in general, against delgado in specific.
    Buddy McGirt against Simon Brown is a good guy to watch, too. Especially the way he goes from outside to inside real quick, tucks in and works, or gets back out. Controlling the distance is so crucial, and there is so much I could show you that I can't explain, but McGirt in general (especially at 147)is good to watch.
    Andre makes good points about the elbows. You would be amazed at how easy it is to turn a guy inside, just your right hand on his left elbow, push him to your left. And watch Chavez (Sr), and the way he uses his elbows and forearms inside to bump a guy off, to create space, and how he parries punches, close in, by bumping the other guy's elbows. The Rosario fight is good for this, as is his fight with Azabache Martinez, or Ruben Castillo.
    To be able to do any of these things, you need to master some skills: you don't just get in the ring and decide to fight this way. First, your defense. Watch Chavez, Toney, McGirt, Armstrong. All effective in-fighters (and there are so, so many)yet very different. And I think that that is the foundation of it all: to be able to fight, in close, in range, under constant fire, with confidence and the ability to stay there. That means not getting hit and minimizing the impact when you do. (Think on this and we'll talk about rolling with and/or smothering punches.) Second, you have to be able to hit short and hard. That is all technique, and there are exercises to develope that.
    Finally, there is so so much more. Like slapping his left glove out of the way with your right gto land a hook, or hitting his right glove with a left uppercut so that you can land a right. Watch ray Leonard ko Davey Green and what he does to clear the way for that left hook.
    alright thank you i appreciate it. i now see i got a lot of work to do to become a good fighter but nobody ever said it would be easy!

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    Quote Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
    In my estimation, fighting in close, in boxing, has most all to do with the angle of your body. If you square up, or lean forward, you'll eat uppercuts all day. Watch the 2nd moorer/holyfield fight. You need to get your left shoulder way in front, and well into the other guy's chest.(my references will be to orthodox fighters, as, if you are a southpaw you should maintain distance to maximize your angles. Unless all involved are southpaws, in, which case, God help us all.) This makes you are difficult target to hit; takes his right hand out of the picture, and makes you hard to hit with uppercuts. Then you keep your right elbow in to protect your ribs and the right glove up to block hooks. Watch Toney in general, against delgado in specific.
    Buddy McGirt against Simon Brown is a good guy to watch, too. Especially the way he goes from outside to inside real quick, tucks in and works, or gets back out. Controlling the distance is so crucial, and there is so much I could show you that I can't explain, but McGirt in general (especially at 147)is good to watch.
    Andre makes good points about the elbows. You would be amazed at how easy it is to turn a guy inside, just your right hand on his left elbow, push him to your left. And watch Chavez (Sr), and the way he uses his elbows and forearms inside to bump a guy off, to create space, and how he parries punches, close in, by bumping the other guy's elbows. The Rosario fight is good for this, as is his fight with Azabache Martinez, or Ruben Castillo.
    To be able to do any of these things, you need to master some skills: you don't just get in the ring and decide to fight this way. First, your defense. Watch Chavez, Toney, McGirt, Armstrong. All effective in-fighters (and there are so, so many)yet very different. And I think that that is the foundation of it all: to be able to fight, in close, in range, under constant fire, with confidence and the ability to stay there. That means not getting hit and minimizing the impact when you do. (Think on this and we'll talk about rolling with and/or smothering punches.) Second, you have to be able to hit short and hard. That is all technique, and there are exercises to develope that.
    Finally, there is so so much more. Like slapping his left glove out of the way with your right gto land a hook, or hitting his right glove with a left uppercut so that you can land a right. Watch ray Leonard ko Davey Green and what he does to clear the way for that left hook.
    how you said about keeping your front shoulder in the guys chest, wouldnt philly shell be good for this?

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    thanks for the sharing,.

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    Default Re: Trying to learn fighting in the pocket

    A lot of great stuff covered but I'll add or repeat a couple.

    1. It has been mentioned above but I'll reiterate that catching and countering from the same side , particularly against a hook is key to stopping momentum.
    2. Don't go for all big shots, counter with speed, keep them short and when you have room, extend.
    3. Change levels on your punches.
    4. Work on some bread and butter, left hook-left upper. Left hook body, left hook head, right upper
    5. Don't stop moving your head or your feet just because you are inside, change angles
    6. Bump left, right, back, turn. There are lots of little footwork moves to improve your position.
    7. When you slip, slip in to punching position.
    8. Don't wing, keep your punches tight and your elbows in.
    9. If you are an inside fighter you have to punch as long as you have a hand free. Don't let your opponent clinch without paying.

    Two other fights that come to mind Corrales-Castillo and Ward-Augustus. Buddy McGirt was a master though.

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